CURRENT 2001 VW TDI OIL REQUIREMENTS

The crankcase lubricant requirements of passenger car DI diesel engines are determined primarily by the VW TDI engine test. This test has an appetite for higher detergent formulations -to meet the current ACEA B4 limits for piston cleanliness and ring stick, oils are typically formulated to 1.3% wt-1.5% wt sulfated ash. The proposed ACEA B5, which will issue in 2001 as an addendum to the ACEA 98 sequences, sets even higher performance for piston cleanliness, requiring a piston merit 5 points higher than the existing ACEA B4.

Currently, ACEA, VW and DC define the performance of lubricants in passenger car diesel engines as follows:

ACEA B1-98 Fuel economy (HTHS < 3.5 cP)
ACEA B2-98 General purpose (HTHS > 3.5 cP)
ACEA B3-98 High performance (HTHS > 3.5 cP)
ACEA B4-98 High performance DI diesel (HTHS 3.5 cP)
ACEA B5 (addendum to 98) High performance DI diesel plus fuel economy (HTHS < 3.5 cP)
VW 505.00 / 505.01 / 506.00 / 506.01 Formulation specific VW approvals
MB 229.1 / 229.3 / 229.5 Formulation specific approvals


In the future, the use of oxidation catalysts and particulate traps will be required to meet the ever-more stringent CO, HC, NOx and particulates emissions limits. Catalyst protection and durability will be the major issue facing OEMs. This is likely to have a dramatic impact on lubricant formulations, with increasing demands for lower levels of sulfur, phosphorus, and sulfated ash.



The new E5 oil test sequence required the development of a number of new tests, as summarized below:

Extending the existing CEC OM 441LA test method to include a parameter to measure deposits in the turbocharger compressor
Developing an oxidation test to address problems with bearing corrosion and piston undercrown deposits
Investigating the issues of lubricant compatibility with exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
Investigating the feasibility of a lubricant fuel efficiency test

The following summarizes the changes that were made to limits on existing tests, and the new tests added, for
ACEA E5:

OM 441LA to MB 228.3 level plus turbocharger deposits.
CEC-L-52-T-97.
OM 602A to MB 228.3 level. CEC-L-51-A-97.
Mack T-8E to CH-4 level. ASTM D 5967.
Mack T-9 to CH-4 level.
Cummins M-11 to CH-4 level.
PDSC oxidation test. CEC-L-85-T-99.
Bearing corrosion Test-HTCBT. ASTM D 596

Simply put, very few motor oils in North America meet the VW TDI ACEA B4 specs or are specifically approved by VW 506.00.

In fact, NONE of the USA stipulated API specifications meet this criteria in any range, which is why none of the VW TDIs in Europe use an API certified oil.

In fact, as TooSlick pointed out, the ONLY 5w30 oils in North America that meet VW's requirements for the TDI engine are Amsoil and Redline.

Anybody wonder why they changed their minds and went to 5w40?

I'm going to run Amsoil Series 3000 in the Evil Beetle, and possibly in the Benz...and sleep soundly at night. Amsoil Series 3000 vastly exceeds all of VW's requirements for the TDI. Their 5w40 "recommendation" has more to do with the fact that good 5w30 diesel oils are hard to find in the U.S. than any other reason.

-mickey

So where does the Series 2,000 0w30 fit in??

It has 3.5ht/hs vis.
Also is ACEA B2 which is more than plenty for north america's speeds, I would also take a gander that is beats the higher ACEA standards, but is probably not tested for it.

Will See, should be taking a sample here in the future. Will have 10K on my Series 2000.

AFAIK, the Delo 400 15W40 is API-CH-4, ACEA E5 and JASO CH-1 rated.

Skypup,

I would have to agree with Drivbiwires comments regarding this chart. In the notes below it says that the Vw 506.00 oil is the factory fill for diesels (with extended drain capability) produced after May of 1999. I am not sure this applies to earlier TDI engines? It is true that you do have to be careful about saying that a lubricant is backwards compatable to earlier engines. There may be some engine design changes, such as a higher flow oil pump or tighter bearing clearances that make the use of lighter oils possible. The VW 505.00 spec for the TDI does call for an oil with a HT/HS viscosity >3.5 Cp.

As for the VW Tech service bulletin recommending 5w-30 synthetics, it seems that VW dealers were as confused as the general public. You had many dealers using Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec (5w-30),along with synthetics by Valvoline and Quaker State/Pennzoil that were mainly intended for gas engines. This is the other reason why they came out with a second TSB recommending 5w-40 oils. At the very least a 5w-40 synthetic is going to meet the VW 505.00 specification, as it has a viscosity >3.5 Cp @ 150C(302F).

The Petro Canada 0w-30 and the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 meet the relevant specs in the VW owners manual and are fine to use in this application. They are both intended as fuel efficient replacements for 15w-40 diesel oils in HD diesel engines. Many of our customers here in Huntsville run the Series 3000 in diesel pickups that call for a 15w-40 and they are seeing excellent long terms results.
The product has been on the market for over five years with excellent feedback from owner/operators and fleet operators.

One further thing ...

Had VW not come out with a second TSB, I would still be recommending the 5w-40, Delvac 1, since it also meets the VW 505.00, ACEA "B3" and API/CH-4 specifications. For me to say that it was "too thick" would just be dumb, even though VW first recommended a 5w-30 for this application. It is also fine to use Delvac 1 in a gasser that calls for an SAE 5w-30 - ExxonMobil will tell you exactly the same thing.

TooSlick

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

Very few people here on these forums even know what ACEA means, much less anything to do with what their oil specs mean.

I think it is silly that I show the documented facts here, the one and only facts, and then they are intrepretered 100 different ways. lol

Here is ACEA current specific specs to read for yourselves if you are so interested:

http://www.acea.be/acea/publications.html

You should also look at their DHD-1 specifications with all the associated engine specific test involved to get a better idea of what is going on:

http://www.acea.be/acea/19042001c.pdf


I have another hundred and fifty megabytes of scientific information on to which to base a judgement on, but reading it takes a minimum of six to eight months to get a good idea of what is going on.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I show the documented facts here <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Those "facts" don't apply to US (North American?) vehicles. VWoA specs API certified oil, and makes no reference to 50x specs, which are used in Europe. Driving conditions are obviously different between these two environments. This whole thread is based upon a non-sequitor.

Mike, did you miss the requirements for the motor oil in the owner's manual?

the first line (if I am remembering) is that the oil is VW 505 compliant. . . then ACEA and finally API

hmmm VW numbers are important after all.

and ACEA E series are not meant for small passenger engines and I doubt that they could pass any of the B series oil tests.

Geoff, how could I forget something which simply doesn't exist? I just checked, and my owner's manual, on the page where oil specifications are give, has absolutely NO mention of anything other than viscosity and API rating. There is no reference to VW505.0 or VW506.0 whatsoever.

Furthermore, I don't recall either of those specifications being mentioned in any of the service bulletins which VWoA has published regarding oils for use with the TDI.

Whenever VW specs mention the word "diesel" you can damn sure be guaranteed that means "TDI".

It would be nice if some of the experts could boil this down to a simple FAQ of sorts:

- VW requires XYZ specs
- the oils that meet XYZ specs are ABCDEF...

And let each person decide.

As far as I can tell, the only oil on the market that exactly meets the VW specs is the Syntec 5w40.

I have a few gallons of Chevron Delo 400 15w40 at home that I bought at Walmart because it was darn cheap, but I'm not sure if I want to risk my warranty using a different grade (I realize the 5 vs 15 only applies in the winter for cold starts).

I priced Delvac 1 locally and it works out to under $6 a quart with tax included.

Perhaps a poll would be useful listing all the common brands and grades so we can see who is using what...

http://www.amsoil.com/products/hdd.html

You will note that the Series 3000 also meets the DHD-1 requirement, as well as the others noted above ...It is the ONLY 5w-30 HD diesel oil to do so ....I believe that Delvac 1, 5w-40 also meets this requirement. I have not seen anything from Chevron or Petro Canada on their synthetics meeting this new requirement ....

Ted

Danix it is more complicated than:
if 5 is for winter 15 is fine for summer.

The engine (depending on which one you have ALH or AHU-class) unquestionably benefits from synthetic oil.

That Delo is the best of the non-synthetics out there but is not the best choice by a long shot.

Budget minded xW-40 oils are Petro canada Duron Synthetic 5W-40 or Chevron Delo Synthetic 5W-40. Both are around $12/gallon plus or minus a few. And both will protect much better than any non-synthetic oil.

(now if you are using a syntheti 15W-40 well that is your choice).

Check the FAQ on oil the list is there.

After taking apart a turbo (A diesel turbo) and seeing how much coking was in it I will never use a non-synthetic again. This stuff had to be scraped off with a sharpened chisel and then it took a while to bead blast the surfaces to rid it of the residual carbon build ups on the turbine side.

This brings to me to the next point, the compression rings. I think this is the other reason why VW only recomends a full synthetic in a TDI. The temperatures of the top ring can reach and maybe even exceed 220c. This is enough to turn conventional oil into tar. Your top compression ring is the last place you want to have coking or thickening of the oil. Jam that ring and its all over in short order.

Saving a few dollars on oil is not worth it. Besides you have 10,000 miles to recover the savings and amounts to less than if you had used conventional every 5K.

DB

Skypup,
What the deal is is that this Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade is their 15w-40 non-synthetic oil. You can buy it just about anywhere. They have cases of it at the local oil distributor locally. Why they got the standard oil certified for the DHD-1 instead of a synthetic oil, I don't know. Maybe I should just ask them, huh.
By the way, I am using their 5w-40 synthetic with good results. (with 10k changes)

Have a good one!

AutoDiesel
2000 Golf GLS TDi Automatic
K&N panel, .184 injectors, Tuning Box

and the 5-30 or 5-40 are GENERAL recommendations and be sure to pick the oil for you climate conditions where your vehicle is being operated...


wellllllll... I live in hell,,, well next door to hell...

all that wimpy artic, canadian, alaskan coffee is awful weak down here next door to hell..

rest of comments removed to be nice....

My '99 New Beetle owners manual instructs me to use oil that is BOTH CG-4 (or higher) AND SJ rated. Both.

It says literally NOTHING about viscosity, oddly enough. Nothing at all.

There has been no change in the TDI engines that explains why the chart says "as of m.y. 2000." TDIs have the same cast iron blocks and aluminum heads they've always had. The bearings are the same. The internal tolerances are the same.

The chart says "as of m.y. 2000" because that's when the latest specifications were published! They are equally applicable to older TDI engines.

That chart represents what the engine manufacture specifies for the TDI engine. Period. Your owners manual may have some warranty-related legalities involved, and VWoA can certainly tell their dealer network whatever they want to...but VOLKSWAGEN OF GERMANY...they people who DESIGNED AND BUILT THE ENGINE...put out that chart. The Chart is what they REALLY want. And I can guarantee you that you'll never have a warranty problem if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations! USE THE CHART!

Amsoil Series 3000 fits into The Chart rather nicely, if that's your cup 'o tea. So does Delvac 1.

15w40 dino oil does NOT.

The End.

-mickey

A top quality 0w30, 5w30 or 5w40 SYNTHETIC oil will work in ANY climate conditions south of the Arctic Circle.

AutoDiesel: Big, huge diesel engines have far bigger internal tolerances than our little TDIs. All diesels are not created equal. 15w40 simply doesn't flow quickly enough at startup, even in the summer, for a TDI. Just my opinion. You could probably get away with using it and your engine would probably last a long time...but that doesn't make it the best choice.

Remember: Even the most expensive oil is CHEAP compared to the overall per-mile cost of owning and operating a vehicle. So what if you spend $28 a gallon on oil every 10,000 miles? That's pocket change compared to how much you spend on fuel...even in a TDI. Throw in all the other maintainance, insurance and depreciation and that $28 is pretty much negligable.

I still recommend Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 5w40 as the most cost-effective compromise for the standard 10,000 mile drain intervals. Cardwell Distributing is currently selling it for about $14.50 a gallon, plus shipping. It meets the latest CH-4 specs, as well as Mack EO-M Plus and a host of other specifications that are a lot tougher than any API rating. So if you insist on "skimping"...at least do so with a good oil in an appropriate viscosity!

-mickey

Mickey,

I was corrected on this a while back, so I think that turnaround is fair play. Modern diesel engines have very fine tolerances, no matter how big they are. If they didn't, they would never last for 600k until a rebuild - they would shake themselves apart. How would you ever maintain oil pressure @ 1600-2000 rpms with large bearing clearances?

BTW, I think it's fine to use a 15w-40 synthetic in this engine if the temps are above 0F. I don't think it is necessary to use any xw-40 oil (including the two I sell), but it certainly will not hurt. I have not seen any actual data that would say otherwise. I would not use a 15w-40 petroleum oil, as I believe it will cause oil/carbon deposits to build up inside the turbo and around the upper piston rings.
VW is not spending $$$ on synthetic oil for vehicles under warranty just to spend money they don't have too. You can bet their lawyers are the best money can buy ....

Ted

Mike,

I could be wrong, and I might be. I'll check but last I heard was VWs reccomendation was in that order. Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part . . .

Thanks for checking on me!

Geoff

msauve,
GeWilli is correct in his reading from his manual. Yours might be different.
Mine says the same as GeWilli.
2000 Golf GLS
Diesel engine-
- VW 505.00
- ACEA B3 or ACEA B4
- API Service CF4 or API Sevice CG4
In that order. The previous quote in the manual also says, "The following terms must appear on the oil container singly or in combination with other designations." This doesn't mean any "one" of the requirements would be the best choice, it only says only "one" of the requirements fulfills VW recommendations.
And "driving conditions" probably don't count as much as quality of fuel and different ways of rating oil do. In Europe they have much better fuel than we do, until now. (ULSD diesel in the nortwest now!!!)
(Biodiesel Now!!!!!!!) And their rating system for oils use separate rating for passenger cars and for heavy trucks.

AutoDiesel
2000 Golf GLS TDi Automatic
K&N panel, .184 injectors, TB

I'm looking at page 38 of Booklet 3.2(Tips And Advice) for my 2K1 Jetta TDI and it says for the Diesel that the following terms must appear on the oil container singularly or in combination with other designations;

-SAE 5W40 or if not available SAE 5W30
-VW 505.00
-ACEA B3 or ACEA B4
-API Service CF4 or API Service CG4

It also goes on to say to look for the API Starburst label or the SAE label for Oil viscosity and grade as well as energy conserving designation and use oil only displaying these symbols.

You guys kill me. The more I read this forum the more confused I get. I need to pick an oil that will serve me well after I run out of the dealer freebies and everytime I come here for a recommendation I leave scratching my head.

A picture is worth a thousand arguements...

Skypup,
You keep forgeting about a oil that has already met Global DHD-1 requirements-
Chevron DELO 400 Multigrade. It has met the standard for Europe (ACEA E5), Japan (JASO DH-1), and North American (API CH-4). The oil manufactures that meet this spec. will be the ones who are universally accepted "world wide".


AutoDiesel
2000 Golf GLS TDi
K&N panel, .184 injectors, Tuning Box

MIGOLFGLSTDI,

Your just to good for me!
If I had my scanner hooked up I would have done the same. Thank's!!

AutoDiesel
2000 Golf GLS TDi Automatic
K&N panel, .184 injectors, Tuning Box

That is correct Autodiesel, you cannot possibly go wrong using that oil, thanks for reminding me that to date, this is the only spec DHD-1. I would imagine it is rather difficult to come by though.

MIGOLFGLSTDI, Thanks for posting this! So much for the 5w30 & the API argument. But something tells me it will still not be over even when it’s in black and white from an owner’s manual.

So if you had a problem with any 5w30 motor oil that meets the VW 505 spec it appears you WOULD have a legal leg to stand on after all! Well just goes to show legal advise is worth just what you pay for it!

Hondo,

I would not recommend using an oil that just meets the VW 505.00 spec (some gas engine synthetics meet this), but not the CH-4 specification. Due to the EGR valve, you really have to consider the TDI to be a HD diesel, in term of the amount of soot and acids that are pumped back into the oil. The soot levels can be up to five times the concentration that you would see in a 5.9L Cummins or PowerStroke engine after 10,000 miles. These pickup truck diesel engines do seem to show more TBN depletion (from heat), due to the fact that they are often run under heavy load pulling fifth wheels around ....

TooSlick

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TexasBill:


wellllllll... I live in hell,,, well next door to hell...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly. It's in Michigan. And since this thread seems to be going there, I thought I would post this map to assist.