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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old February 9th, 2019, 16:54   #1
mrfiat
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Ranchos, NM
Fuel Economy: 38.5 mpg (in town - trying to improve it)
Default Stage 4 tune owners out there, help with FE and smoke

I'm getting 30-33 mpg in my 2003 ALH wagon. I do a number of short trips every week. (5-10 minute drives) I drive about 40% highway miles. Here is what has been done to it: * Malone Stage 4 tune * 1019 injectors * 11mm pump * EUH 5-speed transmission (The car originally had an auto transmission) * Cat has been deleted. * VNT17 Turbo * Sachs Power Clutch and G60/VR6 Flywheel. (rated for 300 ft/lbs of torque) * EGR has been deleted. (ASV valve is still in use though) * 3 bar MAP sensor. * 17" Long Beach wheels used and new 225/45/17 tires IQ is at 4.8, rear wheels rotate fine, injection timing dead on the blue line, tire pressures at 45 psi, front & rear alignment are perfect, engine temperature 195 5W40, synthetic oil. Bottom egnine shield in place, static timing is perfect, new air filter, snow screen cleaned, intake manifold has been cleaned, ventectomy (always fill fuel to same level) Used GPS to correct for odometer error. Unless I am super easy on the gas off the light it smokes. (wasted fuel) I drive it somewhat aggressive at times. I do coast in gear up to stop lights. The car runs perfect and is very fast. :-) Is there any way to reduce some of the smoke I get? My FE has gone down on my wagon and my sedan (Kerma tune) since I installed the tunes. Are other ALH owners with stage 4 tunes getting around the same FE? Is there anything that I should check to increase FE? (I think I have covered most everything) Thanks!
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Old February 9th, 2019, 17:39   #2
~TDIguy~
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Im running a MK4 05 Jetta with an almost identical setup. My daily commute is 20 minutes with 50/50 city and 55 mph driving. I normally get 30-32 back and forth to work and 38 highway.. I think too it should be better but...?? My timing is set just under zero which makes it start harder but i have very little smoke, and slightly less power. Im gonna have it adjusted up over zero as soon as i get a chance. One thing ive started doing which is good for the overall health of the fuel system is im running Amsoil Cetane Boost. I was sceptical of the boasted 7 point cetane number increase till i ran a tank or two of it. I can tell the difference! Easier cold starts, and better responsiveness and fuel economy on the road..

I too am looking to improve my economy if its possible! I had a friend with a stage 3 or 4 golf, setup much the same way and he was getting upper forties to low 50s on a normal basis. The lowest he ever calculated was 48 i believe he said. Now THAT is where i would like to be!
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Old February 9th, 2019, 18:45   #3
WildChild80
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Try moving your IQ up until you notice a loss of power and see what you get, I've got 1019s and I think my IQ is in the 5s or 6s...been a while since I've hooked it up to the laptop...but similar setup ALH, add 3 inch exhaust and S7 turbo and I'm at or above 50mpg depending on how far above 70mph I go...

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Old February 9th, 2019, 19:07   #4
~TDIguy~
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No kidding, how is smoke at those IQ values? Car starts fine and everything?
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Old February 9th, 2019, 19:25   #5
mrfiat
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The car starts instantly regardless of how cold it is. I keep it at 2000 rpm or so when cruising. No smoke when cruising. I will try turning up the IQ, but it is only supposed to affect FE at idle since the computer takes over after that. I have tried the cetane boost and didn't notice a difference so I have stopped adding it. Thx!
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Old February 9th, 2019, 21:22   #6
Rrusse11
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My IQ is at 8.8 for no smoke. Plenty power, FE is high 30's at the moment, I suspect winter fuel, it's been so cold that
it wouldn't surprise me if the refineries have been throwing a lot of extra kerosene in, or whatever they use.

FE with a Stage 4, I'm at 26psi, with LOTS of air and big nozzles,
fat sticky tires, and snappy performance, hey, so it's costing me
a bit. But what else can you drive that comes anywhere close to
the mileage vs performance factor?
16gals of fuel cost me <$44, that'll take me 600 miles of hard driving.
Great bang for the buck IMO.



I can run 80 all day, wanna' pass? np. Lol, I run WAZE and a radar detector, fingers crossed, so far so good.


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RC Stage 4: 11mm pump, 17/22, .230 nozzles, 3barMAP,EGR Delete, PD150Intake,2.5" Exhaust: Koni Sp Reds, Wagon Springs, ~1"/2"lift:VR6 fr swaybar, Top strut & rear tie bar: 215/55ZR16 GMax AS05's, 10mm/20mm spacers, 35# @: skid plate: 02J, SBC2 End, .717 5th, Peloquin LSD, Fluidampr: TT Short Shifter: : VR6 fr Brks:
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Old February 10th, 2019, 17:28   #7
mrfiat
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Thanks! I just set the injection pump timing smack on the green line (max advanced) and set the IQ to 8.2. (The highest it would go) I actually had to do the hammer mod for the first time due to the IQ already be maxed out at 4.8. I will fill her up and run through a tank and let everyone know what happens.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 18:55   #8
Rrusse11
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mrfiat,
I know the usual recommendation for maximum performance is run
the IP timing as high as possible, I'm not sure that that is actually the best for FE. And making the power I already am, I'm at a timing of 58, above the mid blue line, but no where near max.
Just a thought, I have no data or theories to support my practice.
I do know my car's running good, starts easily hot or cold with hardly
any throttle.

Cheers,
R*2
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RC Stage 4: 11mm pump, 17/22, .230 nozzles, 3barMAP,EGR Delete, PD150Intake,2.5" Exhaust: Koni Sp Reds, Wagon Springs, ~1"/2"lift:VR6 fr swaybar, Top strut & rear tie bar: 215/55ZR16 GMax AS05's, 10mm/20mm spacers, 35# @: skid plate: 02J, SBC2 End, .717 5th, Peloquin LSD, Fluidampr: TT Short Shifter: : VR6 fr Brks:
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Old February 10th, 2019, 20:12   #9
mrfiat
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Thanks. Mine starts instantly without any throttle. I will let you know if that changes. After this tank I might try lowering it back to the blue line if I'm not happy with the FE.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 09:27   #10
bbexotics
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Good luck let us know how it goes
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Old February 11th, 2019, 09:37   #11
IndigoBlueWagon
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You're running too much fuel, maybe way too much fuel. PP520s are a nice match to a VNT-17 and 11mm pump with stage 4 tuning. I'd get Malone to take a bunch of fuel out of the tune instead of compromising it with bumping the IQ to some absurd level. Car should be low smoke with the IQ at 3.0-3.6 if tuned correctly.

My car with RC4+ and PP520s with an 11mm pump would get mid 40s easily, better on long drives.

The idea of running big nozzles and then raising the IQ to reduce smoke has never made sense to me. I've felt it's better to more closely match the injectors to the rest of the car's setup and tune for full fuel flow. But if you don't want to change out the injector nozzles Malone should be able to help.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 09:45   #12
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My IQ is set at about 4.0. I do get thick smoke at WOT when pulling the trailer up steep hills otherwise it is pretty good. My mileage is probably about 25 mpg with the trailer onboard, since we really don't commute with the TDI anymore, I don't have any unloaded readings but I think it is still very respectable.

My timing is near the max line.

I have an 11mm pump to install soon once I find a PD150 Intake manifold and EGT gauge
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Old February 11th, 2019, 15:50   #13
mrfiat
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I was very detailed in telling Malone about my setup before they did the tune. I would think that they would have reduced the fuel in the initial tune they sent me due to the 1019s. (Those injectors are sweet BTW :-) I believe both Kerma and Malone told me to set my IQ to 3.0, but that does create a bit of smoke and poor FE. I did go back to Kerma on my sedan's tune complaining about FE and the new tune they sent me only increased FE by 1-2 mpg. (while reducing power quite a bit)


Kerma is the one that recommended that I go with the 1019s in this setup.

In order to be 100% clear, I am asking about the Malone Stage 4 tune in my wagon, but I'm also talking about the Kerma
tune in my sedan.


Indigo, you are saying that Kerma was incorrect on the nozzle selection and that I should go back to Malone and ask for a more fuel efficient tune, correct?

Last edited by mrfiat; February 11th, 2019 at 15:53.
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Old February 11th, 2019, 16:41   #14
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It does seem unlikely that both of your cars are returning lower than expected MPG's.

I tried my IQ at 6.0 and had a harder time pulling the trailer in a head wind (I like to keep the speed around 65mph). Set it back down to 4.0 and it made a huge difference in the power but more smoke as well.

Keep in mind that your 11mm pump is pushing more fuel into those injectors so if they can take the extra fuel they will. Does your other car have an 11mm pump?

What are some common issues that can be affecting both cars?

Perhaps the terrain in your area is hilly?
What about fuel quality?
Driving into a head wind?
How high are you above sea level?
Someone is stealing your fuel at night?

Anything else that you can think of?
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Old February 11th, 2019, 17:16   #15
Rrusse11
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My IQ shifted radically after my EGR delete and PD150 intake.
Dropped about 4 points. I also had turbo spikes, now solved.
ARP head studs ordered, and once they're installed, I'll be able to
drop the IQ a bit for more power. At 8.8 IQ car is running smoke free,
and cleaning up the intake with the catchcan should clean up the turbo, I suspect it's a bit dirty.

Jeff of RC did allow that he could make changes to the fuelling map
after I got some of the tweaks resolved; big nozzles, but atomising well
was his take on the car. Still a work in progress, I've got a lot of head
room in what the car and current hardware is capable of.

It's been a gradual incremental series of improvements, and the
slow and easy approach has given me a sense of what each upgrade
does, and how it effects the driveability and the performance I want.
I'm no after a dragster, or a wheel spinning autocross machine.

We'll be making a trip south in a month or so with the camper, that's
part of the car's "requirements". FE is nice, but is not my ultimate goal. It'll be interesting to see how some of the recent work changes
its towability vs 5k miles last spring to Utah and back.
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RC Stage 4: 11mm pump, 17/22, .230 nozzles, 3barMAP,EGR Delete, PD150Intake,2.5" Exhaust: Koni Sp Reds, Wagon Springs, ~1"/2"lift:VR6 fr swaybar, Top strut & rear tie bar: 215/55ZR16 GMax AS05's, 10mm/20mm spacers, 35# @: skid plate: 02J, SBC2 End, .717 5th, Peloquin LSD, Fluidampr: TT Short Shifter: : VR6 fr Brks:
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