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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old November 16th, 2018, 17:35   #1
2015GSW
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Default Renewable diesel

I was reading about renewable diesel recently. It is a low carbon drop-in ULSD replacement unlike biodiesel. It is available in California at Propel stations where they call it HPR. It sells for $4 a gallon which is slightly higher than regular ULSD. Has anyone here tried it?


https://cleancities.energy.gov/files...2016_07_18.pdf


https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels
Clean Diesel Power


– Increased power and torque
– Higher cetane than regular diesel
– Cleaner combustion and emissions

Diesel HPR meets the ASTM D975
diesel specification for use in diesel engines.


The Benefits of Diesel HPR

Fueling with Diesel HPR Propel Diesel HPR is a premium fuel engineered to maximize performance of your clean diesel engine. Diesel HPR meets the ASTM D975 diesel specification (ULSD) for use in all diesel engines. Refined from recycled fats and oils, Diesel HPR outperforms both petroleum diesel and biodiesel in performance, emissions and value.


Performance Performance formulated Diesel HPR has a cetane rating up to 75+, 40% higher than regular diesel, for smoother combustion and a better ride. Diesel HPR combusts more efficiently, which means more power and torque for your rig. And unlike biodiesel, Diesel HPR provides uncompromised cold weather performance. Diesel HPR is additized to provide excellent lubricity in all driving conditions and exceeds ULSD lubricity specification.

Renewable Propel Diesel HPR is not biodiesel, however, it is manufactured from similar renewable biomass sources including recycled fats and oils. Refined from renewable biomass through advanced hydrotreating technology, Propel Diesel HPR meets the toughest specifications required by automotive and engine manufacturers. This allows Diesel HPR to be used by any diesel vehicle.

Air Quality and Environment The California Air Resources Board classifies Diesel HPR, also known as renewable diesel, as an ultra-low carbon fuel. The fuel can achieve a 40-80% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions compared to fossil diesel. In addition, Propel Diesel HPR:
- Reduces NOx emissions by up to 14% and particulates (PM 2.5) by 34% compared to petroleum diesel
- Is sulfur-free, aromatics-free and virtually odorless, in 100% renewable diesel form

Outperforming B20 Diesel HPR outperforms Biodiesel B20, delivering more power and lower emissions. Diesel HPR is made from 98% renewable content, while B20 biodiesel is 20% renewable and 80% petroleum. Unlike biodiesel, Diesel HPR provides uncompromised cold weather performance.

Last edited by 2015GSW; November 16th, 2018 at 17:38.
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Old November 16th, 2018, 18:07   #2
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Yes I’ve been using it for a couple years. It’s great if you have a new diesel with DPF and stuff.

Less power.
Less MPGs. Expect about 10% less per gallon in my experience. My ‘09 Jetta 6MT consistently got 33 MPGs combined with it. My 2.8 Duramax 4x4 Canyon gets 23-24 combined on it.

Runs very smooth. Less diesel “knock”. Exhaust doesn’t smell as bad.

Tried it on my ‘03 golf 50/50 with D2 and I got a small leak on the return line to the IP. It seems that this stuff commonly causes leaks for members here. Coincidently I stopped using it and the leak I had went away.

Typically $0.10 a gallon cheaper than Chevron diesel #2.
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Old November 17th, 2018, 14:06   #3
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Use of renewable diesel is increasing significantly in California.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37472#
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Old November 17th, 2018, 19:23   #4
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At $4 a gallon it would have a tough time competing anywhere else, except Hawaii maybe. D2 is only $2.94 here. No one would buy it.
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Old November 18th, 2018, 04:17   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
At $4 a gallon it would have a tough time competing anywhere else, except Hawaii maybe. D2 is only $2.94 here. No one would buy it.
Itís subsidized by the state of CA which is why itís the same price as D2. I suspect the actual cost of buying it is significantly higher.
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Old November 18th, 2018, 09:20   #6
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I hate to say it, there is no such thing as " renewable Diesel ". You run it in your car and it's gone forever.

Just as there is no recycled toilet paper.
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Old November 18th, 2018, 23:26   #7
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I've been using it in my 335d and alh golf, I notice right off the bat less MPG between 1-2 miles per gal, my cars starts right up, more quiet and less smoke, about more power I do not know, if someone can chime in it would be nice on that, it claims to have 75 cetane,
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Old November 19th, 2018, 08:54   #8
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Maxrpm, you're obviously doing something wrong when you get 57 Mpg driving like your granny.
There are tons of people in these forum pages who drive 85 Mph and get 65 Mpg
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Old November 19th, 2018, 11:50   #9
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It sounds like renewable diesel is unpopular on older TDIs. In my case with a 2015 GSW, should I buy renewable diesel at Propel when I drive through California (if the price is the same as regular diesel) or avoid it?
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Old November 19th, 2018, 18:25   #10
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Originally Posted by Jetta_Pilot View Post
Maxrpm, you're obviously doing something wrong when you get 57 Mpg driving like your granny.
There are tons of people in these forum pages who drive 85 Mph and get 65 Mpg
there are also a lot of people that made better mpg than me, that and did not have the mods that I had in my golf, at 250hp back then it was great getting 57mpg driving like a granny on a really bumped up TDI, it sure felt good.
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Old November 26th, 2018, 15:35   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetta_Pilot View Post
I hate to say it, there is no such thing as " renewable Diesel ". You run it in your car and it's gone forever.
Just as there is no recycled toilet paper.
You know we live in a closed system, right?
Burning the fuel produces water and CO2 which plants convert into biomass which
humans convert into fuel. So, renewable. Only the sunlight gets added along the way.
For that matter, toilet paper degrades into the same gasses that feed more trees, etc.
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Old November 29th, 2018, 17:42   #12
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I use Propel Renewable diesel in both my '03 Golf and my '14 Golf. No issues whatsoever. It's a fantastic fuel - probably the best diesel fuel produced. However, keep in mind, lubricity is still a concern. Renewable diesel has slightly better lubricity than standard garbage ULSD fuel(IMHO, you should avoid ULSD fuel whenever possible), which means you should ALWAYS be using additives that enhance said lubricity at every fill-up. Especially for the new common-rail diesels that depend on the rather fragile CP4 fuel pump.

It's best to find a biodiesel supplier and mix in a quart or two of B20(B20 acts as the absolute best lubricity additive) with a full tank of renewable. On top of that, you could also add in a splash of Diesel Kleen, or Shaffer's Diesel Treat. This may sound a bit overboard, but believe me, it's needed if you want these mechanical parts to last.

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Old November 30th, 2018, 12:26   #13
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Right. There are those who never use an additive and go hundreds of thousands of miles and never have an issue. Probably more than those who do use an additive. You just never hear them post. Your post makes it sound like the sky is falling, it isn't. ULSD isn't garbage and it is mostly the only thing available, anywhere. A little bio in it also does wonders for lubricity and a lot of ULSD is already sold with it today. No sky is falling posts needed. It sounds way, way overboard. You are new here so read up a little. Enjoy tdiclub!
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Old November 30th, 2018, 16:06   #14
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lmao....and there is an abundance of documented evidence of many individuals who have suffered catastrophic fuel system failure. Simple research will show you that ULSD alone doesn't technically provide enough lubricity for Bosch CP4 HPFPs, nor is it properly filtered down at an acceptable level(the design of the CP4 piston and roller bearing absolutely depends on fuel filtered down as best as possible) - not nearly as well as HPR. There are countless posts on this subject, some of which are even on this very site.

To quote a user from another post, "USA ULS diesel fuel lubricity standard: 520 micron scar rating"(HPR is 500 Max, according to their spec sheet). "Bosch CP4 HPFP fuel lubricity minimum requirement: 460 micron scar rating (9/2009 publishing date)". So, unless you wish to gamble with lousy American ULSD fuel, and bring about the possibility of metal shavings in your fuel system taking out your injectors and aux fuel pumps, I suggest you play it safe and add the proper additives for the right amount of lubrication of moving metal components. HPR will help lower the possibility of pump failure.

I highly recommend anyone with a CR design engine study exactly how these CP3 & CP4 pumps work, to understand what the issue is. Again, I'm simply reiterating a VERY well known problem, and I believe, as an enthusiast, it is best to go the extra mile for these wonderful cars, even if the newer CR diesels have an Achilles heel. So, what is the problem with attempting to obtain a lubricity level that these pumps are rated for?

Last edited by biodieselboy; November 30th, 2018 at 17:31.
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Old November 30th, 2018, 18:26   #15
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Just because the standard is 520 doesn't mean all the fuel coming out of pumps everywhere is at that. Go look at some of the random testing done and you will find that the vast majority are way below that. This study was done in 2014. The 2018 results will be coming out soon.

https://www.infineum.com/media/80722...ull-screen.pdf

Because the majority of the fuel is already there. Just find some with any bio content in it and you are done. Most of the fuel has some small percentage anyway and it doesn't take much.
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