Biodiesel in San Antonio, latest news?

tikal

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Howdy folks:

Anybody has any recent confirmed sightings of biodiesel availability in the San Antonio area (any blend)?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 

tikal

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I see B20 and B5 all the time. What part of town were you looking for?
Thanks for the response tilt. I happen to be in San Antonio this past weekend (Feb 24-27) and I would have liked to fill up with some BD blend instead of just D2. I have a 2002 Golf.

For the future could you cite the places that you know carry some B20 and/or B5. Do they have signs stating so?

Thanks.
 

Lightflyer1

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Please do. I am in Austin area and bio was pretty much wiped out by the passage of the TXLed regulations. All most no where has it any more.
 

lonniebear

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i'd also like to know where in SA there is b2 or b5. i called a few of the stations on the biodiesel list on this site and none of the employees knew what i was talking about.
 

lonniebear

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I just called a couple of the petro pantry again and confirmed that they do sell biodiesel. although they didn't seem to know what the blend percentage was.

Petro Pantry #25
4415 West Avenue
San Antonio TX 78213
(210) 979-9134
Manager: Carol Carreon

Petro Pantry #29
12434 Nacogdoches
San Antonio, TX 78217
(210) 654-0847
Manager: Jerry Faust
Hours 24/7

Petro Pantry #30
1530 W. Loop 1604 North
San Antonio, TX 78251
(210) 521-7698
Manager: Trent Scharf
Hours: 24/7

Petro Pantry #31
11102 W. Loop 1604 North
San Antonio, TX 78250
(210) 521-8618
Manager: Jackie Weaver
Hours 24/7
 

nuclear

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I just called a couple of the petro pantry again and confirmed that they do sell biodiesel. although they didn't seem to know what the blend percentage was.

Petro Pantry #25
4415 West Avenue
San Antonio TX 78213
(210) 979-9134
Manager: Carol Carreon

Petro Pantry #29
12434 Nacogdoches
San Antonio, TX 78217
(210) 654-0847
Manager: Jerry Faust
Hours 24/7

Petro Pantry #30
1530 W. Loop 1604 North
San Antonio, TX 78251
(210) 521-7698
Manager: Trent Scharf
Hours: 24/7

Petro Pantry #31
11102 W. Loop 1604 North
San Antonio, TX 78250
(210) 521-8618
Manager: Jackie Weaver
Hours 24/7

So they don't know? what the hell? If you sell BioD blends in TX, it will fall under TxLed (low emission diesel) requirements as highway vehicle fuel. It's pretty descript on what is required.

If they actually have a bioD blend and it's beyond 5% bio only certain formulations beyond that are legal in that county (Heavy additives)

It's amazing that they have bio in the first place. TCEQ mandates that bioD it has atleast 48 cetane rating as part of the TXled emissions regs for diesel. Normal diesel has specs at about 40 cetane
 

lonniebear

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Ok, so here is the update. i called more of the stores and the clerks were clueless although they all said they did sell bioD. I had one walk out and look a the pump and she said it didn't say anything on it. So I called Mid-Tex oil who owns Petro Pantry. Talked to Chuck in the wholesale department and he said that none of their stores sells bioD. He said they did a couple of years ago but "had nothing but trouble" with it. So we are out of luck.
 

tikal

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Ok, so here is the update. i called more of the stores and the clerks were clueless although they all said they did sell bioD. I had one walk out and look a the pump and she said it didn't say anything on it. So I called Mid-Tex oil who owns Petro Pantry. Talked to Chuck in the wholesale department and he said that none of their stores sells bioD. He said they did a couple of years ago but "had nothing but trouble" with it. So we are out of luck.
Thanks for the effort to research this lonniebear. This confirms my suspicion that there is no longer BD available in any kind of blend for public consumption in the San Antonio area. Sad indeed.
 

lonniebear

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there used to be Alamo Biodiesel, but they went out of business. I've got a new 2011 golf coming next month and i've been trying to figure out where i'll fuel it. i really wanted to find some B2 or B5 given the problems with the HPFP. I did order a gallon of opti-lube, so i guess that's the best i can do for now.
 

lonniebear

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good idea. i've got a friend who goes to houston every weekend to see his daughter. will definitely have him pick some up for me. does it go bad? 20 tanks would take me about 40 weeks to go through.
 

Lightflyer1

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good idea. i've got a friend who goes to houston every weekend to see his daughter. will definitely have him pick some up for me. does it go bad? 20 tanks would take me about 40 weeks to go through.
Not kept in a cool dark place, sealed well. Should last a year anyway I would think. About a quart per 12 gallons is B2.
 

tikal

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Not kept in a cool dark place, sealed well. Should last a year anyway I would think. About a quart per 12 gallons is B2.
The 'dark/sealed well' part is doable but 'cool' not so much in our garages in Texas ...
 

Lightflyer1

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A closet indoors works equally well. Or just in the corner somewhere too. It is already packaged properly so anywhere indoors would do. Not like it was gasoline or anything.
 

nuclear

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Ok, so here is the update. i called more of the stores and the clerks were clueless although they all said they did sell bioD. I had one walk out and look a the pump and she said it didn't say anything on it. So I called Mid-Tex oil who owns Petro Pantry. Talked to Chuck in the wholesale department and he said that none of their stores sells bioD. He said they did a couple of years ago but "had nothing but trouble" with it. So we are out of luck.
I figured that was the case, if you see BioD in a TX LED county they would know the specs since the requirements are so detailed. Again 48 cetane is a min for bioD
selling cheap 40 cetane diesel is much less of a headache and more profitable for about 99% of stations
 

tilt

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Crap! I'm sorry guys, I thought the site would send me an email when I had a reply to a post... probably a setting to look into.

Anywho, The shell station I go to has the sticker that says B20 and the price is about 20 cents a gallon cheaper than the other stations. It's located at Nacogdoches and Thousand Oaks right across from Pep Boys.

Also, the Valero at 1604 and Potranco had B5 the last time I filled up on that side of the county.

Is it possible the pumps are back to straight diesel and the stickers are just on the pumps?
 

tikal

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Crap! I'm sorry guys, I thought the site would send me an email when I had a reply to a post... probably a setting to look into.

Anywho, The shell station I go to has the sticker that says B20 and the price is about 20 cents a gallon cheaper than the other stations. It's located at Nacogdoches and Thousand Oaks right across from Pep Boys.

Also, the Valero at 1604 and Potranco had B5 the last time I filled up on that side of the county.

Is it possible the pumps are back to straight diesel and the stickers are just on the pumps?
Unfortunately this may be the case unless you can talk to somebody knowledgeable in the store that can show you an invoice proving B20 or B5.
 

tditom

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I called the station at Potranco and 1604 and the attendant said he was looking at the pumps while telling me there was no label re. Biodiesel. I will take a look for myself if I get out that way.
 

Lightflyer1

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TxLED is min 48 cetane. <10% aromatics. <\=15ppm sulfur.

Bio is typically >50 cetane.
I emailed several companies here and was told they provide 40 cetane. Some thing was allowing them to not distribute 48 cetane fuel. I quoted that from the regs, but when asked they said they complied by other means.
 

tditom

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I emailed several companies here and was told they provide 40 cetane. Some thing was allowing them to not distribute 48 cetane fuel. I quoted that from the regs, but when asked they said they complied by other means.
this is from Chevron's site:
TxLED fuel is basically the same as California Air Resources Board (CARB) diesel fuel, with one additional specification. Like California, Texas requires that low emission diesel (LED) has sulfur content no greater than 500 ppm, and an aromatics content no greater than 10 volume percent. In addition, Texas requires a minimum cetane number of 48. The alternative low aromatics diesel (ALAD) formulations that have been certified by CARB are also acceptable for TxLED. Finally, Texas has protocols whereby alternative formulations that provide equivalent emissions benefits to LED can be certified. TxLED is required to be used in both on-highway vehicles and in non-road agricultural and construction equipment.
I know they are referring to s500 diesel, but its clear that they claim 48 cetane on their products. I can't imagine any supplier bearing the cost of that unless it was mandatory.

Hopefully tony (aja8888) will chime in on this.
 

Lightflyer1

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Here is a post where it was discussed and I quoted their response.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3291740&postcount=21

Looks like there is a weasel hole in TXled regs.

Here is their second response:

The TXled alternative diesel formulations approved by TCEQ do not have a minimum cetane rating of 48. However, all diesel fuels sold in the US must comply with ASTM d 975 which requires a minimum cetane rating of 40.Diesel fuels sold in the affected counties can be approved alternative diesel fuel formulations, or meet the TXled diesel fuel specifications. TXled has no labeling requirement for approved alternative diesel fuel formulations.Please see the TXled website below for additional information.
http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/implemen....htmlSincerely,
Chevron Fuels Technical Services

From this thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=269831
 
Last edited:

tditom

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Seems quite clear to me:
TxLED must be at least 48 cetane
alternative fuel must be at least 40 cetane
 
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