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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old March 12th, 2009, 09:23   #1
DoctorDawg
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Default '09 and later TDIs to be effectively banned in Iowa?

Current and future owners of new TDIs living in Iowa might want to write their state legislators and explain to them that 20% biodiesel is an absolute no-no in the world's best-selling new diesel sedan, the '09 (and future) TDIs:

"All regular diesel fuel would be illegal in Iowa after July 1 under a controversial proposal before state lawmakers....Farmers, truckers, school districts with diesel buses and owners of any personal vehicle with a diesel engine would be required to use biodiesel....Under the new proposal, the required blend of biodiesel would ramp up from 5 percent this summer to 20 percent by 2015"

Read the full article here.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 14:42   #2
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Nobody cares when they ban guns, but lookout when they start banning straight D2
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Old March 12th, 2009, 16:02   #3
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Maybe VW will do a recall and do the DPF and regen correctly...

maybe not.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 16:05   #4
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Default BioDiesel in 2009 and later TDI's

Vw has not tested greater than 5% biodiesel. Iowa should not be allowed to do this,until further tests are done on ALL DIESELS,not just VW. The new TDI's would run great on 100% biodiesel,but you would have to remove the DPF.

Last edited by nicklockard; March 13th, 2009 at 10:55.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 16:38   #5
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Doesn't bio have some solvent effects that can damage plastic or rubber parts as well? I think it's not a problem for vehicles less than 5 or so years old, but there are a LOT of old vehicles and ag equipment that would potentially have to be rebuilt to keep seals and hoses from failing. Do they expect the consumer to pay for what appears to be another farm subsidy? Not all of us in Iowa grow beans. . .
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Old March 12th, 2009, 16:41   #6
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This law looks like it was written by someone with no knowledge of how diesel engines work, simply looking at it from an environmental standpoint. I'm all for biodiesel, but they need to look at how the current fleet can handle it, possibly making exceptions or accommodations. That's my take on it, anyways.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 16:57   #7
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Default BioDiesel in 2009 and later TDI's

Yes! Eric X, You get some of these Government People that don't have a clue. Then what happens is:

--The Engine pollutes more because it is not running right,due to bio-diesel use.
--Repairs to 'said engine' cause a carbon footprint.

--Another thing I don't like is when they clear vast areas of rainforest to plant trees to produce palm oil to make bio-diesel.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 17:21   #8
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The future of Biodiesel has already been written, IMO. The world's agriculture will not be able to support their use in high concentrations with crop feedstock, ever (in everyone's opinion with a little common sense). It was nice to have when diesels were dirty, great to use in the older engines (I use it whenever I can find it), but it needs to be dropped ASAP by those who consider it a serious solution to anything, IMO

It's not doing anything for the air anymore in a modern CR DPF diesel. Its appeal is strictly as a renewable domestic fuel, IMO. It's qualities make it a less than ideal fuel for a high pressure common rail. Then there is exhaust treatment to contend with. I believe that better than 5% can be done with a little R&D by VW, but why would they ever want to do that for a fad? Only Caterpillar, to my knowledge, has developed clean diesel specifically with bio in mind. Exhaust temps can really only be raised w/o fuel dilution using a seperate downstream injection event.

But even with the limited amounts that are being produced now, look what it and ethanol have done. As was mentioned, environmental destruction, increased food prices and shortages. Now, if someone can figure out how to make it efficiently from a plant that isn't a world food staple, and isn't a TREE (palm), something like algae or a wasted byproduct, I might change my mind. Until then, I get sick driving through Iowa on I-80 and looking out over acres of green corn sucking up the water and nitrogen only to go through an energy intensive process and finally to be burned in a GM Tahoe "FLEX FUEL" at a 20% loss of FE. It's a mess. Nothing green about it, IMO.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 17:29   #9
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There already is bio from algae. And bio from nearly any organic matter. Just not widespread yet.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 17:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Fout
There already is bio from algae. And bio from nearly any organic matter. Just not widespread yet.
I know I know
note efficient: looooonnnggg way to go.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 17:37   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselfitter
--Another thing I don't like is when they clear vast areas of rainforest to plant trees to produce palm oil to make bio-diesel.
You are kidding, right? You are from the home of Tar Sand mining where vast areas of boreal forest are pit mined for tar sand so we can cook the tar out with natural gas... and you object to forest destruction?

http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/OSF_Fact72.pdf
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Old March 12th, 2009, 17:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
...even with the limited amounts [of soy biodiesel] that are being produced now, look what it and ethanol have done. As was mentioned, environmental destruction, increased food prices and shortages...
Soy beans are not grown strictly to produce biodiesel.

Why?

Only 20% of the bean is oil. 98% of our soy bean crop goes to create animal feed. The beans are crushed to make the feed... and the oil comes squeezing out as a by product.

So... where does soy biodiesel cause environmental destruction? If we did grow more soy beans to get more oil, the cost of that animal feed would simply go down as more crushed soy cake came on the market. Soy biodiesel only got going big because there was a 300 million gallon surplus of soy oil with no market.

There isn't enough soy biodiesel to "save the Earth" but I don't get any claims about environmental destruction.

As far as this laws goes, mandated content should be limited to 5%. Just my $.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
...Nothing green about it...
I respectfully disagree. There is a lot that is green about soy biodiesel. I've cut my CO2 emissions by 56% in the last six years while using 100% biodiesel. In my '03 Golf it runs smoother, quieter and pollutes far less than dino diesel. Pretty green. Long term? We need better and more plentiful sources for biodiesel that don't compete with food in any way.
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Last edited by ikendu; March 12th, 2009 at 17:55.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 18:09   #13
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Environmental effects of biodiesel specifically, I was thinking of palm plantations. I can't find statistics on how much biodiesel is produced for each feedstock, but I know that per acre, palm oil is lucrative. It has the best oil yield per acre by far, absolute $$$ for countries that have the environment to grow it, and my impression is that quite a bit of biodiesel is imported now from this source.

As far as nothing green about it, I was referring corn ethanol production in Iowa, I was a little off topic. More than 1/3 of US corn is going to renewable fuels. Incredible how quickly things ramped up with government incentive.

I agree, biodiesel's only glimmer of hope is a non-food feedstock that also must not compete for acreage against a food crop. That's two requirements, most people forget about the second one.

I also agree on the 5%. Oh, and oil sands are dang nasty, but it's pretty difficult to compare bad to bad (deforestation to pit mining)
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Last edited by eb2143; March 12th, 2009 at 18:34.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 18:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb2143
This is about Iowa; pretty juvenille comment veolcity.

The future of Biodiesel has already been written. Biodiesel (and ethanol) are not the future. The world's agriculture will not be able to support them, ever, in high concentrations. It was nice to have when diesels were dirty, great to use in the older engines (I use it whenever I can find it), but it needs to be dropped ASAP by those who consider it a serious solution to anything.
Juvenile? Opinion stated as fact is still opinion.
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Old March 12th, 2009, 18:30   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO
Juvenile? Opinion stated as fact is still opinion.
Yes, it is. It's up to any reader to differentiate opinion from fact. It's not very difficult on a car forum. You can add IMO to every statement you make, or you can hope your readers aren't juvenile.

"Maybe VW will do a recall and and do the DPF and regen correctly"
You state it as a fact that the regen was done incorrectly, but that's your opinion, right?

I'm done. Been picked to pieces.
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