wont start after injection pump rebuild

my 2003 vw jetta alh tdi began leaking at the injection pump. I could see the IP leaking from the under the quantity adjuster and its cover, the two I refer to as the upper seals. I purchased a bosch seal kit. Removed the top cover, and then I removed the quantity adjuster portion of the pump when I had realized I mistakenly had not marked the exact location of the quantity adjuster. At that point I just continued to replace the two upper seals. I reassembled the IP and bled the lines with a mightyvac. I kept getting air bubbles in the clear fuel line when I was priming the IP from the fuel return hose. I tried to start the car anyway but it wouldnt start with everything put back together. I figured it was due to the air bubbles I kept getting in the fuel line regardless of how much priming I did. At this point I called it a day and assumed the head seal was the reason why I kept getting bubbles in the fuel line. Since I was going to replace the head seal I decided I was going to pull the pump out of the car and do it along with a timing belt water pump idler pulleys and so forth. Initially I raised the car made sure to set the car in TDC I removed the valve cover made sure the first two cam lobes were pointing up, I bought the special tools so I had the cam locking plate, that fit in nicely, I could see the notch on the transmission and that was lined up, and I also seen the 3 dots on the crank in which I believe it was the first dot lined up with a protruded surface on the case. Everything was lined up I had also locked the IP in place using the locking pin I had received with the kit of special tools I bought for the job. I removed everything at this point used a crank locking gear as well. I took my time and changed all of the seals on the IP. I reinstalled everything and I was able to successfully prime the pump using the mightyvac. I bled the fuel lines at the injectors and the car will still not start. I have purchased a vag com to do everything legit however it doesnt help me since the car is not running. I have since rolled the engine over and the looked at the transmission and then I was able to insert the pin back into the IP. I tried advancing the timing on the IP sprocket and it didnt help. When I say advancing I am referring to loosening the three 13mm on the IP sprocket and just turning the 22mm clockwise toward the front of the car. I tried turning it just a little bit and then tried starting again to no avail. I tried this alittle more each time until it was maxed out in terms of how far I can advance it without loosening the timing belt and turning the sprocket back a tooth.
Something I noticed when I removed the IP was when I removed the IP sprocket initially to remove the IP, the keyway was no longer lined up it was hardly off by mm or two. But I removed the timing belt before I removed the locking pin so i thought that it was fine no big deal I just thought I would mention. And then when reassembling I noticed that the IP keyway on the pulley was in the same spot so I put the spocket on centered it and then installed the locking pin by turning the 22mm and installing the locking pin and then I installed the new timing belt. So now I am unsure what to do completely. I dont know what the issue is tried my best and have fallen short hoping I can get some knowledgeable advice or even a hand willing to help I will pay for your time. I just really want to get my car going again.

Did you remove the IP sprocket from the flange (by removing the three small bolts that bolt the sprocket to the flange) or did you unbolt the big central bolt and remove the sprocket/flange as a single unit?

If the later, that's your issue most likely. You may have noticed there's no key... the flange is indexed to the IP shaft at the factory using precision equipment and is not intended to be disassembled, at least not without scribing an alignment mark. On most pumps the bolt is sealed with yellow calibration paint. Recalibration requires special equipment and generally ends up being a visit to a Bosch Service Center.

To quote the fast and the furious...it's your fuel man....I'd bet your IQ is numerically too high and you need to do the hammer mod. Fractions of an inch on the QA make huge changes on the IQ or amount of fuel.

In the future attack one thing at a time, replace the seals and get the car running before you mess with the timing belt because your IP timing may be too far off but your first no start probably would have been fuel or IQ, increase your fuel a little at a time and see if it won't start. And set your IP at the lock assuming your cam and crank line up perfectly.

The above is assuming you didn't take the flange off the pump...

Edit: I try to do as much at one time as I can to minimize down time...I understand why you did but you might have opened a can of worms


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Usually you can see the impressions from the bolts on the pump top cover to get QA set back in place, at least enough to start the car. Is this the case with your pump?


As Vince said, did you remove the hub from the input shaft on the pump to replace the seal or did you skip that one and leave the hub installed?


Did you remove the camplate from the pump? If so, are you sure you have it installed correctly and not 180 degrees out?


Did the pump go back together properly?

@Vince Walden I removed the IP sprocket by removing the three 13mm bolts. I did some research as I had done all of the work I so I knew not to unbolt the central nut that has to be calibrated.

@WildChild80 In regard to considering the IQ may be too high may which way will lower the injection quantity? I know I can go ahead and guess but I just thought I would ask, I may just go for it and see what happens.
In the future I will definitely know to make multiple marks that will not be easily lost/removed before removing so that after cleaning removing and reinstallation the marks will remain in order to do the best that I can to get the IQ where it was when it had been removed. I totally screwed up there. And I agree in regard to tackling the two top seals and getting it running before going further I realize this now. I had come across another thread suggesting the same, just trying to do whatever I can to get this baby going again. I definitely would have approached this differently had I thought about that more to begin with.

@burn_your_money I could seem some impressions now that you mention that, ever so slightly. I loosened the IQ and moved it ever so slightly so that now the impressions are nearly covered whereas they weren't before it was off just a little bit. So I was excited hoping now that it would start but it still will not. I was about to ask my girlfriend to attempt to start it while I bleed the lines once again but I am unsure if itll work. I still have what looks like a pretty big bubble in my clear fuel line though I have bled the **** out of them. I have been bleeding two fuel injector lines at one time. Is this ok? I am now considering, maybe I am loosening the fuel lines a little too much and that is the reason why I am getting air bubbles I am not sure. I am however tightening them after whoever is cranking the engine over stops which now that I think about it may be allowing air to get in the lines that way? Maybe I should tighten the lines as someone is still cranking the engine instead of waiting until whoever stops cranking the engine? Open to suggestions.

I really appreciate the help. Thanks

Move the QA towards the drivers side

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@WildChild80 I moved the QA towards the drivers side as far as it could go and still will not start. I also tried cracking the injector lines less than I had before and tightened them before a friend quit cranking the engine in hopes this would get rid of the rather large air bubble in my fuel line. Any suggestions to mitigate this issue? I have a 2inch bubble that forms when we stop cranking regardless of the way I bleed the injectors. I could now try to advance the timing a little on the pump but I am just guessing at this point. I have seen someone saying they put in an inline fuel filter which had helped but I am not sure this will help. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

@burn_your_money I did remove the camplate from pump; however I am unsure if I reinstalled the camplate incorrectly. How could I diagnose this?

Jh4357 said:

@burn_your_money I did remove the camplate from pump; however I am unsure if I reinstalled the camplate incorrectly. How could I diagnose this?

Click to expand...

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/Manual_Pump_Parts.pdf


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Jh4357 said:

@burn_your_money I did remove the camplate from pump; however I am unsure if I reinstalled the camplate incorrectly. How could I diagnose this?

Click to expand...

Pin the pump with cylinder 4 at TDC of compression (cyl 1 cam lobes facing down) then do up the t-belt
this will make your pump exactly 180 deg "out" rectifying the situation of the camplate being in wrong way round

I'm the king of getting my pump together 180 out, trust me on this bit o hackery

@[486] May I ask how I would know if my cam plate is 180 degrees out.

Jh4357 said:

@[486] May I ask how I would know if my cam plate is 180 degrees out.

Click to expand...

I think you can do spill port timing on these pumps to verify, but I've never had to do it before. You'll have to Google it.

What you could try doing, is completely removing the injection lines and removing the timing belt. Then, make a paint mark on the pump pulley with the pump locked at TDC and also on the inner belt cover that you can use as a quick reference while turning the pump over quickly. Take note of the outlet port on the pump head that goes to cylinder one. Turn the pump over as quick as you can and you should see diesel coming out of the noted outlet (I think it's marked "A") just before you align your paint mark with the reference point. If it's 180 out, it will inject 2 ports later (marked "C").

It's probably easier to just time the pump 180 out...

Don't worry about that air bubble, it will not be bled out by cracking the injectors, that one bleeds out through the return. Once you have fuel coming out a line at the injector, that one is bled and you can tighten it up and move on.

Put the QA lined up just to the driver's side of the impressions on the pump, don't max it all the way out.


EDIT:
I looked at your pictures, if the pump driveshaft was at TDC (or close to it) then you are not 180 out. I really hope you didn't put it together with all that rust/junk in the pump?



Are you sure you have the QA arm engaged in the collar on the pump rotor?

@burn_your_money I will go ahead and google spill port timing to try to figure out how to do that.
I will more than likely try your recommendation as far as removing the injection lines and removing the timing belt. The IP is really difficult to turn over but it was like this during when I had originally pulled it out; that being said I cant exactly turn over
it quickly but I can try, and I will ask a friend to watch closely and or record what happens.
On the QA alignment roger will do that.
As far as the pictures the pictures were of the initial disassembly so it did have a little sludge in it but I cleaned it thoroughly with brake cleaner and reassembled the IP with the alignment key way lined up. That is why I am unsure how I would have timed it 180 degrees out.
In regard to the QA arm engaged in the collar of the pump. You are talking about the arm under the QA correct? I took my time during the assembly but if I made a mistake I believe it would have broken the plunger or something along those lines. I guess I could attempt to remove the end plug in the center of the four injectors and insert a probe and see if I notice any lift during a manual turn over correct? I may have to try this to rule out any possibilities that or just remove the QA and take a quick look under it.

@[486] If I went ahead and timed the pump 180 degrees out would this potentially damage then engine in anyway or just create a no start.

Jh4357 said:

@[486] If I went ahead and timed the pump 180 degrees out would this potentially damage then engine in anyway or just create a no start.

Click to expand...

no amount of timing will hurt an engine with the stock fuel system
you just get wet glow plugs and maybe some white smoke if you go long enough to wet the bowls enough, as you're just injecting fuel during the exhaust stroke

looking at the exploded diagram again it appears you want the pin in the camplate "up" (towards the governor housing) when the pump input shaft is pinned

[486] said:

looking at the exploded diagram again it appears you want the pin in the camplate "up" (towards the governor housing) when the pump input shaft is pinned

Click to expand...

The pin on the camplate lines up with the keyway slot on the driveshaft. With the pump locked at TDC, that puts the pin at about 10 o clock looking into the pump.



Regarding breaking the rotor, it's not likely to happen when installing the QA. What can happen though, is the control collar slides either towards the front or rear of the pump so that the arm on the QA misses the hole in the control collar when it is being installed. This means that the QA is not able to adjust the quantity of fuel injected and it either sits at WOT or 0 fuel. That's a fairly easy thing to do when installing the QA if you aren't paying enough attention.

^^^
On pump housing should have a notch-mark about 10 o’clock like in video I sent


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You cannot do spill port timing on these pumps (they are zero pre-stroke pumps). This means that injection starts when lift starts.

You can however dial indicate time them (with the proper tools). It should be .85mm lift at TDC (which equals 4.5 degrees BTDC). The orientation of the timing pin slot in the drive hub is set by the pump builder so the pin alignment is at .85mm.

UPDATE: I ended up finding a VW assistant foreman/enthusiast and he sold me a spare IP for a deal. I installed it and everything went as it should have...bled the lines rough start and ability to use vag com for any fine tuning. Luckily the IP didn’t need any fine tuning...