2013 TDI sportwagen suspension upgrade?

t walgamuth

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Location
Lafayette In
TDI
2013 tdi sportwagen
Hi I am wondering what folks do if they want a little more spring under the car. It seems to bottom out on dips if driven at all aggressive. I don't want to lower the car but would accept stronger springs. Also would consider premium shock absorbers such as Koni or Bilstein. I like the great ride and won't want to give much of that up.

All the spring kits at Tire rack feature lowering.....the car is plenty low as is.

Thanks all!

Tom
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Vendors (including us) have firmer springs that will make the car taller. We have a kit that uses Tiguan front and Sportwagen Towing (from Europe) rears. You could run these with stock dampers, but if the car has over 100K on it I'd replace those, too. Our favorite shock for this application is Koni FSDs. Yellows work well, too.

Don't know of higher rate springs that won't change ride height. And often lowering springs are the same rate or softer than stock. Another option would be to keep the stock springs and use a firmer shock like Bilstein HDs.
 

gmcjetpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
Hi I am wondering what folks do if they want a little more spring under the
car. It seems to bottom out on dips if driven at all aggressive. I don't
want to lower the car but would accept stronger springs. Also would
consider premium shock absorbers such as Koni or Bilstein. I like the great
ride and won't want to give much of that up. All the spring kits at Tire rack
feature lowering.....the car is plenty low as is. Thanks all! Tom
The car is fine but your road and driving is not. :D "Aggressive?" :eek:

I had a thread asking about suspension upgrades. After I got some good
advise I decided to not worry about it... may be new shocks down the road
as IndigoBlueWagon suggested.

If you ever watch the car chases in the old TV shows and movies through
San Fran with those steep streets and hills, you remember cars getting
airborne and slamming down. Suspension is not going to fix that.

If you put stiffer springs on, your ride is going to be hell. I think the stock
suspension is about perfect for overall daily road driving.... Lower springs
will make it worse. The issue, driving too fast uneven roads.

Leave it alone and save your money. I have no data to disagree, but folks
say the suspension springs are shot at 100,000 miles seems kind of low.

Heavy sway bars is not going to help bottom outs much (I think).

I do agree different shocks may be in order at 100,000 miles. I do know
the shocks we have can leak.... but if they don't leak, there is no need to
change them.... unless you feel like spending money.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
For the last several generations of US-Bound cars VW has made the suspension softer and more prone to bottoming out because they believe our road surfaces are terrible. And by and large they're right. But when I picked up my '02 at the dealer and drove it home, I was very disappointed by the soft ride, understeer, and body roll compared to the Audi A4 I had traded in, even though the Audi had 80K miles on it. I lived with the stock suspension for 60K and then upgraded. I've since then been through more suspension changes than I can count (somewhere between 7 and 10) and there are many aftermarket options that are far better than OE. In the MKV and VI cars the stock suspension isn't as poor as it was on the MKIVs, but still a good set of dampers like Koni Yellows or FSDs will dramatically improve handling with no sacrifice in ride quality. Bilstein HDs will make the ride firmer, but also provide vastly improved turn in and resistance to bottoming.

If you frequently find you have to slow down to keep your suspension from bottoming on public roads then your dampers are worn out. I've been running Konis in my wagon for the past 7 years or so (Reds, then FSDs, then Reds again, with some coilovers in there at a couple of different points) and they simply don't bottom out. Even the current Reds, on full soft, don't bottom.

There are better options than OE.
 

Thmastr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2013 JSW MT
After several thousand miles the oil in the damping parts of your suspension will start braking down. This will cause a loss of both compression and rebound damping (the car will feel like it floats more because the tires are not making good firm contact with the ground). You do not have to wait until a shock fails and starts leaking. In many modern day sportbikes the suspension maintenance interval is about 18 thousand miles. These are systems so high end that upgrading them can easily cost over 20% of the original cost of the bike.

If we had that in cars most drivers would freak out! specially on our diesels designed for high millage. At around 100000 miles the suspension might not perform as well as it did when it was new...
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
....2013 JSW TDI 6M in almost three years of fuel efficient use...........

IMHO, suspension appears just fine for this sailor..............

Small M-B coupe permits any aggressive driving desired.............


ez sends (sure I'd prefer a buyback - but if VW buys off on the grandfathering concept - well that's OK too!).
 

TNriverjet

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mid TN
TDI
2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Vendors (including us) have firmer springs that will make the car taller. We have a kit that uses Tiguan front and Sportwagen Towing (from Europe) rears. You could run these with stock dampers, but if the car has over 100K on it I'd replace those, too. Our favorite shock for this application is Koni FSDs. Yellows work well, too.

Don't know of higher rate springs that won't change ride height. And often lowering springs are the same rate or softer than stock. Another option would be to keep the stock springs and use a firmer shock like Bilstein HDs.
As a point of reference, Here is a photo of the lifted setup IBW mentions. I'm using the stock dampers with the springs mentioned, but will likely upgrade to Koni FSD's in a year or so.


 
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fxk

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Location
Vast wilderness between DC and Baltimore
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Along with firmer sway bars, this is what I would recommend.
Sway bars control roll during cornering, and will not do anything to prevent bottoming. On a road where one track is rougher than the other, that motion will transfer through the sway bar to the other wheel, transferring that motion to the body, as that is what sway bars do - transfer weight from one side of the vehicle to the other.
Cars on good, dry roads can benefit from heavier sway bars. Cars in the wet are set up with softer bars, allowing the car to roll a bit more, which adds bite in the wet. Off-road cars may end up with a small diameter bar or deleting sway bars entirely, so the four corners can operate entirely independently of the others. Sway bars are a tool in the suspension designers toolkit to dial in understeer/oversteer.
After several thousand miles the oil in the damping parts of your suspension will start braking down. This will cause a loss of both compression and rebound damping (the car will feel like it floats more because the tires are not making good firm contact with the ground). You do not have to wait until a shock fails and starts leaking. In many modern day sportbikes the suspension maintenance interval is about 18 thousand miles. These are systems so high end that upgrading them can easily cost over 20% of the original cost of the bike.
If we had that in cars most drivers would freak out! specially on our diesels designed for high millage. At around 100000 miles the suspension might not perform as well as it did when it was new...
Shocks do not stop functioning because of the shock oil breaking down. Shocks break down to the mechanical parts wearing out, or becoming dislodged, and leaking seals (internal or external) from the use over time. Non pressurized shocks fail in uses where rapid cycling causes the oil to start foaming.
Gas pressure shocks, like Bilstein, control foaming by keeping the shock internals under high pressure, and thus not allowing bubbles to form in the oil. Those shocks can deteriorate if any of the gas gets past the seals, in addition to the normal failure modes of shocks.
Springs support the vehicle under varying loads. The shock controls the action of the spring - i.e., preventing suspension over-travel, the spring rate of compression and extension (speed of the suspension arms) spring oscillation, etc., as well as controlling unsprung weight (i.e., tire and wheel)
Shocks may help the OP problem, especially if the shocks are worn. If the stock springs have sagged, they would need to be replaced. But replaced with what...
-Stiffer springs at the same ride height would be one answer, but the ride will be less supple - more harsh.
-Springs the same rate but an inch or so longer would cause the car to sit higher, but the car would ride much the same.
-Softer springs with more preload can be fitted that will soften the ride somewhat, but due to the preload will have a higher rate than stock, and would solve the problem.
-And you could consider variable rate springs, too
Changing the ride height of the car has some negative effects.
-Increasing ride height will change the droop of the suspension, and will affect the camber of the wheels, possible causing additional wear on the outside of the tread. It will also raise the center of gravity causing additional body roll in the corners.
-Lowering the car will put you that much closer to the ground, reduce suspension travel, and again, change the camber of the wheels. This time, the inside edge takes a pasting. Good news, COG is lowered, causing less body roll.

You're lucky as IndegoBlueWagon has fitted various combinations and knows the results. Take heed.

frank

ps. As far as the high end shocks for sportbikes go, I can add some flavor to that discussion.
I have a set of Ohlins on my BMW k1200RS. Two shocks, one front, one rear, are about $2k. The front is only adjustable when disassembled, on my bike due to space under the fairing, and the telever suspension. The rear has two adjustments: Bounce damping and rebound damping, as well as a spring preload adjustment. Each have a separate external reservoir for fluid and gas. The service recommendation is rebuild yearly. I do it every three years, roughly 30k miles.
Ohlins are the gold standard for racing applications, but makes a HUGE difference on the street (if set up properly). Keeping the tires in contact with the ground and keeping the chassis stable is what they do. That helps during braking and turning, and in that light, I see them as a safety item.
Note, incorrectly set up shocks can be far worse than worn out stock shocks. Just because there is big money spent, and there is a nifty gold cylinder attached to the frame, does not mean the bike is better. Car is same same.
There are more sophisticated units from other vendors that have high and low speed bounce as well as rebound. Those are close to $3k for the bike.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Cars can be re-aligned to bring suspension settings back into spec with (reasonable) raising or lowering. My son's '02 Golf is raised 2" and all alignment measurements are withing spec. And I've lowered VWs and been able to align them with the same result.
 

Face76

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Location
Long Island
TDI
12 JSW TDI
I'm dropped 2" and all parameters but one are within spec. That one is barely out of spec(I believe front camber).
 

t walgamuth

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Location
Lafayette In
TDI
2013 tdi sportwagen
Are the Konis guaranteed for the life of the car?

(sounds like I'll just go with the Konis or the Bilstein HD.)

This is my first VW. I have been spoiled by the overly competent Mercedes suspension for the last 20 years. But, I am tired of driving old cars and this vw is pretty economical and drives nicely too.

I am an autocrosser so I understand many of the comments about sways and springs.(Since I have been autocrossing I don't drive nearly as fast on the roads);)

Thanks to all for your input!
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
Good to see you over here on the "dark side" Tom.

Those old Mercedes are fine cars...but yeah, I got a little tired of chasing down vacuum leaks!


Tim
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
Good to see you over here on the "dark side" Tom.

Those old Mercedes are fine cars...but yeah, I got a little tired of chasing down vacuum leaks!


Tim
 

fxk

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Location
Vast wilderness between DC and Baltimore
TDI
2014 Sportwagen TDI
Are the Konis guaranteed for the life of the car?

(sounds like I'll just go with the Konis or the Bilstein HD.)

This is my first VW. I have been spoiled by the overly competent Mercedes suspension for the last 20 years. But, I am tired of driving old cars and this vw is pretty economical and drives nicely too.

I am an autocrosser so I understand many of the comments about sways and springs.(Since I have been autocrossing I don't drive nearly as fast on the roads);)

Thanks to all for your input!
One can never sharpen one's driving skills too much. Autocross, with some mentoring, is a great way to learn one's car, general car control, threshold braking, and keeping one's head together under pressure. And it's fun.

enjoy!
frank

ps. Konis or Bilsteins are a good choice, and may solve your bottoming problem. Double check to see if the stock springs have sagged. Hate to do the labor twice.
 

t walgamuth

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Location
Lafayette In
TDI
2013 tdi sportwagen
I got one of those nice credit cards from VW. I'd like to buy some better shocks from them, but they sell nothing aftermarket, they say. Can I buy shocks from the GTI as an example ...will they work with my wagon?

I have used the little wagon for a lot of work already. I drove to Oklahoma and brought back 700# of antique glass blocks a couple of months ago and at the moment I have 600# of oak flooring in it. It sits about an inch lower with the weight but carries it well. Its a lot easier to burn out with all that weight in back.;)
 

t walgamuth

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Location
Lafayette In
TDI
2013 tdi sportwagen
One can never sharpen one's driving skills too much. Autocross, with some mentoring, is a great way to learn one's car, general car control, threshold braking, and keeping one's head together under pressure. And it's fun.

enjoy!
frank

ps. Konis or Bilsteins are a good choice, and may solve your bottoming problem. Double check to see if the stock springs have sagged. Hate to do the labor twice.
How to determine if they have sagged?
 

calimustang

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Location
Central FL
TDI
2011 JSW DSG (buyback, RIP), 2014 JSW TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2013 Jetta TDI.
Just sub to this thread. my car now have 230k miles with original shocks, HPFP, Brake rotors/pads and Turbo. I am thinking of going to Bilstein HD's soon. Shocks are getting worn out and becoming like an boat ride but not too obviously yet. Springs holds up just fine when I unload my 100-150 lbs of equipment in the back.
 

t walgamuth

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Location
Lafayette In
TDI
2013 tdi sportwagen
So I've looked around a bit and it sounds like the GTI shocks are a bolt on for my sportwagen.

Can someone verify this?

Has anyone done it?

I'd like to go in and buy them from the dealer with my gift card....perhaps installed.
 

Turbodude1

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Location
Auburn Maine
TDI
1999.5 Golf 2dr. RCII, sprint 520s, shine susp
The gti shocks will bolt in, but I suspect they are similar to what you already have. The springs should be a little firmer and slightly lower perhaps more in the rear.
 

halfast3

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Location
usually in Oregon
TDI
2011 Golf TDI DSG
If anyone's interested, I have a set of (2013?) Sportwagen take-off shocks and struts with less than 100 miles on them. $20 + shipping. I installed the front springs on our Golf. Rear springs, which were too stiff for our hatchback, are available too.
 

zoomman

New member
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Location
denver
TDI
jetta sport wagen
You seem to suggest that a high performance suspension upgrade is a waste of time and money, getting little out of the efforts... That is a complete opposite opinion from other high performance builders i've talked to. The harsh jar you feel when going over road irregularities will be eliminated with better shocks, not worse.
 
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