Why the A4 body roll ?

Just drove today my wife's 94 Jetta and realized that although @100k+ it still has the orginal suspension, when cornering body roll is not as bad as in my 01 Golf . So my big question is: why the awful A4 body roll and what is the best single solution to fix it (struts/shocks, springs, torsion bars, tie bars, but don't say 'all of them', that obviously will fix it).

I also remember the European Golf did not have this problem, so what is so different ?

I'm not a suspension guru, but it is my understanding that an independent suspension is the way to go for both performance and comfort. Switching to a torsion beam saves on production cost, weight, and space. Unfortunately, the beam is less forgiving with bumps on the road. One of the main problems (yet curable) is the lack of a rear sway bar. The A3 and A5 will probably always be superior in suspension compared to a North American spec A4, but that's what mods are for. VW isn't the only company to with the rear torsion beam...Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and BMW have all switched in recent years.

I've read that with stock suspension just a rear sway bar makes a world of difference in the body roll department. Hear-say only though. Can anyone confirm or deny?

I don't think the European Golf has IRS (indep rear susp)... if I'm not mistaken, the R32 has IRS, the others have torsion beam.

A lot of you folks have mods, what is the one with the best effect on reducing body roll ?

I don't think the European Golf has IRS (indep rear susp)... if I'm not mistaken, the R32 has IRS, the others have torsion beam.

A lot of you folks have mods, what is the one with the best effect on reducing body roll ?

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All 4Motion MK4 Golf and Boras have IRS, (some TDI's in certain markets had the 4Motion option)

I remember driving a MKIV FWD Golf in Europe and the ride was much better, with no noticeable body roll... so there's got to be something different and I'm wondering who has narrowed it down...

I remember driving a MKIV FWD Golf in Europe and the ride was much better, with no noticeable body roll... so there's got to be something different and I'm wondering who has narrowed it down...

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By "better" ride, what do you mean?

To many Americans, "better" ride is softer. But to others, the soft ride feels boaty, so they prefer a firmer ride. If you prefer a firmer ride, you may find that firmer suspension tuning is better for both ride and handling.

By "better" ride, what do you mean?

To many Americans, "better" ride is softer. But to others, the soft ride feels boaty, so they prefer a firmer ride. If you prefer a firmer ride, you may find that firmer suspension tuning is better for both ride and handling.

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No, not the "American" ride (soft/mushy), but a firmer grip on the road & far better cornering with no body roll.

I know suspension upgrade is going to improve grip and maybe body roll, but is this the BEST way to get rid of the body roll ? Or like Mark suggested, a rear sway bar ? Or tie bars ? I cannot believe everybody has done all the upgrades at once so they cannot weigh in on what mod is best for body roll...

I currently have a stock 2001 Golf TDI GLS. In my garage I have 2 Autotech 28mm rear sway bars, a set of 337 20th anniversary springs/dampers, a set of Bilstein Sport dampers, and a of Neuspeed Race springs, a set of 17X7 SSR GT7's, and a set of 18X8 SSR GT1's.

I plan on installing the Bilsteins with the 337 springs, rear sway bar, and GT7's (I'd like to place wheel spacers at the rear to create a staggered setup). I will likely put the other bar, wheels, shocks, struts, and springs up for sale once I'm satisfied with the suspension. I somehow ended up with all these parts when some friends started parting their 1.8T's.

I' m not planning on adding any other strut bars or anything as I think the chasis is stiff enough. Too much rigidity makes bumps unforgiving. Some chasis flex is needed to absorb road imperfections...it just takes good engineering to determine where to make the chasis flex without compromising integrety and handling performance.

I currently have a stock 2001 Golf TDI GLS. In my garage I have 2 Autotech 28mm rear sway bars, a set of 337 20th anniversary springs/dampers, a set of Bilstein Sport dampers, and a of Neuspeed Race springs, a set of 17X7 SSR GT7's, and a set of 18X8 SSR GT1's.

I plan on installing the Bilsteins with the 337 springs, rear sway bar, and GT7's (I'd like to place wheel spacers at the rear to create a staggered setup). I will likely put the other bar, wheels, shocks, struts, and springs up for sale once I'm satisfied with the suspension. I somehow ended up with all these parts when some friends started parting their 1.8T's.

I' m not planning on adding any other strut bars or anything as I think the chasis is stiff enough. Too much rigidity makes bumps unforgiving. Some chasis flex is needed to absorb road imperfections...it just takes good engineering to determine where to make the chasis flex without compromising integrety and handling performance.

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Nice ! It would be interesting if you can install them gradually, maybe the rear sway bar first, but in any case let me know !!!

You know...when you install the rear sway bar, it is much easier to change the rear shocks and springs (the car is lifted...the springs will just about fall out, and you need to remove the shock bolt from the lower knuckle). But maybe I will try and just install the rear sway bar first for comparision...I'll let you know when I do.

Daan, the best resource I found is on VWVortex: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1448594. Read the thread on lowering for handling, not looks.

When I got my Jetta Wagon I thought the handling was significantly worse than my Audi A4 with 80K and original shocks and springs. Very strong understeer, lots of roll, poor grip, poor wheel control. I put up with it for 55K but when the shocks were shot I went to the Shine Real Street Suspension. The most important things I learned on Vortex and from talking with folks is (a)this car's springs are 'way too soft and the shocks are lousy; (b) that increasing the front spring rates are the best way to reduce front body roll; (c)a rear anti-roll bar is the best way to decrease rear roll and reduce understeer; (c) that the suspension on these cars is pretty primitive (by european standards) and that simple solutions are easy to install and help a lot.

My car has a pretty stiff ride. I think a lot of people wouldn't like it. I love it. The handling is fantastic, with absolutely NO body roll. The car tracks and hangs on so much better than before, and this is without wider tires (I have 15" wheels on mine).

Go to a GTG in your area and drive/ride in cars that have different mods, and decide what you like. The right combo is going to be about preference; looks, handling, comfort, cost. There are endless options.

You can do it in stages, but I'd suggest:

Stiffer springs and shocks first; or just stiffer shocks if you don't want a harder ride. Then anti roll bars. If you don't stiffen the front springs do both at once. If you do stiffen the front do a rear bar first and then add a front if needed (you probably won't need one).

I expect this will cause others to weigh in with their preferences. I think there are many great alternatives.

If you have that many miles with the original shocks start there!

Given the fact you have 100k on the vehicle in question, you might want to try other vehicles with (ideally) just the modifications you are considering. The rest that you have not tried; you will have to project before you get them all on. Also keep in mind that the Golf and Jetta spring rates are ENTIRELY different! At your mileage it might be more cost effective to do all the mods at once. If that does not matter, you can slowly ramp up.

Like a previous poster I have parts not installed. Bilstein TC's, Neuspeed Sofsport springs, Autotech 28mm rear sway bar. Goals here were:

I wanted slightly stiffer dampers, but not full performance. I wanted slightly higher progressive springs in front and rear, but not full performance. I wanted little to no lowering, hence the Neuspeed Sofsports @ .75in . Some other aftermarket manufacturer has now come out with a two in lift kit with Bilstein TC's. So that is a remote possibility. Secondary rear sway bar for rear body roll, but adjustable. The 2003 Jetta already has an 18 mm rear sway bar in the torsion bar. This addition is also to help to dial out the massive understeer our VW's have. All of this for app 50 dollars more than the cost for just Koni shocks! (Playing the bang for the buck game also.)

Naturally, it makes all the sense in the world to upgrade the wheels and tires to take better advantage of this increased performance, but when I get in that glazed mode, I just switch over to a Corvette Z06!!!

So what I did was to try various combinations: the full Shine set up, full Koni set up, stock springs, Stock springs, Bilstein TC set up, Bilstein HD's with stock springs. Harder to find will be the exact parts set up, I described above. So based on the full Shine set up (Shine's are tailored more toward performance rather than an emphasis on ride comfort) trial, I personally would be ok with doing all the mods at once. I would not really recommend doing all the mods at once to you, unless I knew a bit of your preferences.

The real purpose for my 2003 VW Jetta TDI is dailer driver and high speed long distance touring.

I think folks are confusing your two cars. It's your wife's car that has 100K on it, right? How many miles does your '01 Golf have?

If it's over 50K just going to Bilstein shocks would make a big difference. Then you might add a slightly larger rear anti-roll bar.

I think folks are confusing your two cars. It's your wife's car that has 100K on it, right? How many miles does your '01 Golf have?

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Yes. My wife's '94 Jetta has 100k+, my '01 Golf has ~59k.

I suggest you get some Bilstien HDs. Then if you want more roll stiffness think about springs and a rear bar.

I suggest you get some Bilstien HDs. Then if you want more roll stiffness think about springs and a rear bar.

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So you're saying the struts/shocks are the #1 culprit , and springs and a sway bar would help further ?

My opinion. The Bilsteins add about 40 lbs. of rate to the springs and so the ride is firmer and you'll have less roll. It's a good first step.

I just replaced the rear shocks on my Jetta and body roll was drastically reduced. The front struts are pretty soft, but all I could afford was rears.

Hell yeah the shocks and struts fix body roll. My retired friend has a Cadillac Eldorado. I was unloading party stuff from the trunk and had to lean on the bumper to reach a bag of stuff. I barely leaned on the car and the thing sank down like I weighed 500lbs. I then pushed his car up, down, and rocked it side to side like it was one of those spring toys at the playground. New shocks will totally fix body roll.

Does anybody have any experience with the Koni sports? I got a brand new set really cheap and I was thinking about putting them with some H&R sports, but now I'm thinking about being cheap and just putting the Konis on set to full firm and seeing how the car does. To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, my last car was an A4 quattro with 18" wheels, Bilstein sports and Neuspeed race springs (450lbs front/350 lbs rear) and I loved it.

Well, if VW has changed the shocks so drastically for the US market (vs European) they deserve the hard times they are having here in the US. Their ad campain is "Drivers Wanted" and then they use mushy/retiree shocks on Golfs and Jettas ?! I think their marketing dept. here in the US totally STINKS !!!

I guess I'll have to try upgrading the shocks first... kwong7 if you can do the sway bar first I'll still be interested in the outcome.

Stiffer shicks are good to a point, but you might also want to consider where you're going to be driving. I live in Quebec where the roads are AWFUL! My shocks were shot at about the mileage you're talking about, and I put a set of Bilstein TCs in. They're almost too stiff for these cow paths we call roads. The car will hop through a really bumpy corner if severely provoked, and the ride quality has really suffered, and I don't like a soft ride. In any case, new shocks WILL have a huge impact on the car.

This might be an obvious point, but have you checked the tire pressures?

<font color="brown">Don't forget that if you still have the stock size 15" wheels that adds a lot of roll to the handling. My first 'mod' was to go to 16"s. It cut the roll quite a bit. </font>

I have upgraded to 16", and it does make a difference, but body roll is still too big. Tire pressure is at or over the pressure recommended for a loaded car.

But: even with potentially shot shocks (which I doubt, but they could be softer then when new), my 01 Golf with 59k should behave way better then my wife's 94 Jetta with 100k+ and OEM suspension... but it's the opposite, and the Jetta is running on 14" !

I agree body roll can be reduced by replacing the shocks, but somehow I am having a hard time believing it's just the shocks...

stock supension is crap. End of story. I took mine out at 37k and the pistons fell into the body of the strut.

Take it from me the european golf rolls big time also,basic fixes are lowering suspension or an engine bay strut,if you this to a 3 door it should stick to the road plus bigger wheels which goes without saying.

<font color="brown">If your like me, the 16's weren't enough. Then shocks and/or springs are next. I'm now where I want to be. </font>

My experience is that the front of these cars need sport struts, but the rear doesn't. Get the sport struts for the front, and quality gas shocks for the rear. Doing so makes the ride much more balanced.