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TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old December 4th, 2011, 10:14   #46
NickBeek
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Mike, the plastic nose guard things are commonly referred to as a "bra".

I have been trying to implement some of the techniques from this thread into my daily driving. 1) It is work to practice these techniques, 2) I find it challenging at times.

Thanks for posting this info.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 14:37   #47
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These techniques definitely require a lot more attention and concentration, but the payoff is there if you're not in a hurry or find it fun to see how good your fuel economy can get.
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Old December 5th, 2011, 15:26   #48
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I am trying to incorporate them into my daily driving when I can. I agree they definitely require more concentration. That may have a safety pay off though.....
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Old December 9th, 2011, 11:12   #49
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Interesting experiment last night... left the block heater plugged in while I was at work yesterday and got ~5 MPG better on my 10 mile drive home from work using my now standard P&G techniques.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 05:44   #50
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After playing with these techniques the last 1000 miles Ive added to my average MPG per trip as well.

Frostheater install has been GREAT for my cold morning commutes though thats for certain. I would highly recommend the addition of a frostheater or block heater if you have cold weather.

I find myself watching traffic more closely now along with putting my foot into the peddle for better efficiency.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 07:33   #51
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I really enjoyed the videos and learning your techniques, Vekke. I'll likely start accelerating up to speed a little faster now.

After reading through this thread, I'm guessing that you and other hypermilers are opposed to using cruise control on the highway. I'm a regular user of cruise control at 65 MPH.

The videos cause me to miss my year living in Europe (Deutschland) and driving there. I wish that trucks and buses were forced to keep their speeds down to 80 - 90 km/hr here in the U.S. for safety reasons. But, in the states, time always trumps safety due to the almighty dollar.

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Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
Interesting experiment last night... left the block heater plugged in while I was at work yesterday and got ~5 MPG better on my 10 mile drive home from work using my now standard P&G techniques.
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Originally Posted by biglipps66 View Post
Frostheater install has been GREAT for my cold morning commutes though thats for certain. I would highly recommend the addition of a frostheater or block heater if you have cold weather.
I also have and use a Frostheater for my morning commute into work in the winter. I've never performed the calculation, but I wonder which is more cost effective. To not use the Frostheater and pay for extra fuel a cold engine consumes (not accounting for a little extra wear and tear on the engine and my longer discomfort from being cold), or to use the Frostheater and pay the extra in the monthly household electricity cost. The Frostheater is on for about 2 hours at 1,000 watts.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 07:53   #52
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... but I wonder which is more cost effective. To not use the Frostheater and pay for extra fuel a cold engine consumes (not accounting for a little extra wear and tear on the engine and my longer discomfort from being cold), or to use the Frostheater and pay the extra in the monthly household electricity cost. The Frostheater is on for about 2 hours at 1,000 watts.
Well, that depends on the cost of electricity in your area. But I'd be really surprised if the frostheater wasn't more cost effective, because the overhead of shipping diesel to the fuel station is quite high, compared to the electricity distribution system, and additionally your diesel is probably taxed higher than your electricity.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 09:40   #53
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I know that electricity in CT is incredibly expensive. Here in VA it's about $0.08/kWhr... I think it's 5 times that in CT.

Even given the steep price of power up there, I think the warm engine and MPG increase will offset the cost of fuel if you're only running the heater for 2 hours prior to driving. Any longer and I don't think you'd see any savings.
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 13:47   #54
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It is already wise to start using the block heater when the temperatures are at +5 celsius or 41 fahrenheit. At those temperatures half an hour is enough up to -5 celsius. If its -5...-10 celsius 23-14 fahrenheit one hour
-10...-20 celsius or 14...-4 fahrenheit two hours is enough.

With those heating times you should get overall savings.

engine heated fuel consumtion will get better:
first kilometer fuel consumtion will be 45% less fuel
1-4 km over 20% less fuel

Other way to put it. Each cold start will burn 0.2-0.3 liters or 0.008 gallons of more fuel than fully warm up engine on the same route

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Old January 16th, 2012, 11:13   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JettaTDiPA View Post
I am sure road & traffic conditions play into all of this- seemingly the smallest about of throttle required to obtain required speed is most efficient.

Aircraft typically stay at fuel throttle until a safe altitude is obtained (Altitude is your best friend in departure)

Throttle is then reduced at safe altitude then set at a rate of climb that burns the least throttle.
Like auto, much depends on conditions (and traffic control instruction).
Airline industry has performed much research and trial to ascertain the most fuel efficiency.
Does this relate to a TDI? I don't know.
Just my two cents, with the different post (not just this one) on TDi’s compared to Aircraft and the acceleration fast or slow debate.
The new norm in aviation, (Turbo fan aircraft) Embraer, Bombardier, and Boeing is a reduced thrust (Flex), or “de-rate” thrust take-off. Embraer uses a built in T/O-1, or T/O-2, A FADEC calculated reduction in thrust per the current condition (1=10% 2= 20% reduction). Boeing & Bombardier use an “assumed temperature” to get the FADEC’s or EEC’s to perform a reduction in take off thrust. Boeing also has flat reduction rates similar to Embraer called T/O 1 & T/O 2 combined with CLB 1/ CLB 2, 1=10% reduction 2=20% reduction. The 747 Dream lifter can even perform a “double de-rate”.
Now that I just inundated you with pilot nonsense, bottom line slower starts are better. Lower temperatures save on maintenance & wear. The higher the temps the more general wear the engine experiences.
The other point is that yes, aircraft do want to expedite their climb to cruising altitude, but for very different purpose. The higher up in altitude you go the lower the drag, due to lower air density. The engine performs better (lower air density, reduces the fuel used per the fuel air ratio require up high). And the colder temperatures at altitude reduce engine wear from heat.
The only way to mimic the benefits the aviation industry has developed IMOHO, is to start off the line slower, reduce drag (following a truck, no roof racks, etc.), and the good old classic Idle downhill coast to a stop.
The above are all exactly what most hyper-millers preach, and other than driving from the low lands up to the top of a mountain (take advantage of lower air density), that’s about all we can do, less modifications etc.
Cheers,
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Old January 21st, 2012, 18:17   #56
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So for me next trip Ill be going through the long and steep hills of West Virginia... how should I go about going up and down the hills? Good throttle up Im assuming but should I coast down hill or just let off the throttle in 6th gear and have no consumption at all?

Those downhills on 77 are massive. You'll save some fuel for sure. My advice: clutch it until 80% of the way down.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 20:47   #57
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Hey Vekke, first off: awesome videos! I'm only just halfway through my first fill up and I've hit 300 on my trip meter, but I would like to squeeze as much mileage from my tank as possible so I'll definitely try and apply some of these techniques next time I'm driving. However I don't exactly get P&G... What exactly do you do?? I've tried looking for an explanation, but all I've come up with are mentions of it on the various other hypermilling threads and not a real explanation.

Are you supposed to accelerate to x speed and then let the car coast, with the clutch pressed, back to another set speed? Then repeat? For example you accelerate to 75mph then push the clutch in and let the car coast down to 65 then accelerate back to 75 and so on and so forth? Have I got the gist of it? if that's the case how is it more efficient that say leaving the car @ 70mph with CC on
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Old January 26th, 2012, 02:10   #58
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If you want to see amazing fuel consumtion figures use push and glide from 45 to 55 range. That means accerate flat out to 55 MPH with 4 gear. Put the car in neutral and and dont leave the clucth pedal down. When your speeds slows down to 45 put again 4 gear in and floor it to 55 and start coasting. With this speed range you can get up to 10% better fuel consumption. on flat ground, also in hilly routes but it takes more practice there to master it perfectly.

On higher speeds like 65 to 75MPH there is not so big gain beacause your drag is also quite big and your speed slows down fast. My personal rule of thumb is that if the accerelation and glide times are pretty same its not worth it.

So you got it right dont leave the clutch pedal down while doing it because your clutch bearing will worn out faster
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Old February 8th, 2012, 05:54   #59
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I have always been taught that an ideling engine uses more fuel on idle than under load??
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Old February 8th, 2012, 07:43   #60
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Relative to the power generated (very little, only to drive accessories, overcome friction and keep the engine running), it is more. This is the concept of BSFC - brake specific fuel consumption in grams per kilowatt hour or pounds per horsepower hour. But it's logical that when more work (load) is done an engine is going to use more fuel. When under load, an engine generally operates at lower BSFC or less lb/HPhr, but there are just much more HPs, so the overall fuel consumption increases. It is rare, indeed almost unprecedented, for an engine to consume less fuel overall between two operating points because the drop in BSFC more than offsets the increase of load.
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