Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

On mine, the free length was pretty close to the same (within an inch on both front and rear), the pitch looks a little less on the Moog spring which will lower the rate, but the wire diameter is 0.020" bigger which will add to the rate.



Rears were not much different in free length either, but have a finer pitch for sure and larger wire diameter as well.

I'll try measuring the moog fronts I have here again, but I was getting around 120lbs when I did them the first time.. My method was pretty simple, scale under the spring in a hydraulic press, I pushed it down so I got 600lbs of load (as far as I was comfortable with pushing it since I had no means of containing it if it came out), then let it up 1 inch and note the scale, then let it up another inch and note the scale.

I thought that less coils for a given free length increased the spring rate rather than lowered it?

-Grant

Grantmac said:

I thought that less coils for a given free length increased the spring rate rather than lowered it?

-Grant

Click to expand...

That's usually the case yes

Sent from my Galaxy S4

We're driving our 05 TDI Jetta wagon down to Sayulita Mexico (via Baja and Mazatlan Fiery) where we'll be staying for about a year. We also will be towing a small fiberglass "egg" camper (1200 pounds) on the way down, as well as using it for short trips.

Ultimately, would love about an 1" of lift, and sturdier towing abilities.

I was ready to pull the trigger on the Blauparts VR6 kit but noticed its not available for an 05. Can anyone tell me why? Maybe the Bilstein VR6 kit is the way to go? Any other reco's?

Would also love to find a source for the rear Euro towing springs for less than $350.

Thanks in advance

If it's a mk4, it'll work. Most sites only list up to 2004 because the new body style started mid 05

Sent from my Galaxy S4

So what was the verdict, the Moogs are firmer or softer than stock springs?

Also if I install the Moog 81134 and 81055 in my 2002 sedan, what will be the change in ride height front and rear? Does the rear sit higher than the front? Should you get the 10mm front strut spacers to even out the height? Planning on the Bilstein TC's as well with either the Moog or new stock springs. Would like additional 0.5 to 1 inch of height without getting a Metalnerd kit or $300 wagon springs etc..

depends on what front springs you currently have. The moog rears are a higher rate than the stock rears. Moog fronts should give you some lift even if they are softer.

So far I've installed 3 sets of moog front/rear springs and the rear gets lifted quite a bit more than the front.

Many thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread and a few others on this site. I lifted my Jetta a few months ago and here is the result. Please note that the way I did this is not a "one size fits all" approach since I have a lot of added weight on the front of the car because of the Roadmaster tow bar and Panzer skid plate with side panels.

Here is my 2003 Jetta as I bought it from the original owner on its ORIGINAL suspension (with 170k miles):






Here it is after adding the Roadmaster tow bar and Panzer skid plate:






And here is the final product with Sparco wheels, Yokohama Geolandar 205/70/15 tires, Bilstein TC struts/shocks, new OEM VR6/auto wagon front springs, two sets (stacked) of VW front spring spacers, and Moog rear springs (also did a full suspension refresh including Audi TT bushings, etc.):






The car fits my needs perfectly now, and drives excellent. As others have noted, the speedometer is now dead-on accurate. No more scraping on driveways (or anything else for that matter). With the higher rate of the Moog springs, I'm able to haul significantly more weight in the back with no sagging. I've been very pleased, and currently have about 6k miles on this setup.

Nice. I'm at around 20,000 miles now on the Bilstein TC front struts and Moog VR6 springs. I too have the Panzer skidplate and side shields. Plus a beefed up Intercooler which adds a little weight. I used Plastidip on the springs and that is still flaking off. I have a wagon with the stock rear springs/shocks.

Even with beefing up the front (I am also using Polyurethane upper strut mounts, so those don't deflect much either) and tools in back, my car has noticeable rake.

My advice is that if you have a wagon and want a more level appearance, you need even stiffer/taller springs in front than the Moog VR6.

Well done.

Any pics on the tow bar? Mounting points?

Your Jetta is beautiful. I have probably sent that picture to at least 4 people giving support as to why I am lifting my Golf.

NonStop said:

Well done.

Any pics on the tow bar? Mounting points?

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Thanks!

I don't have any specific pictures of the tow bar, but it's all from Roadmaster and uses their vehicle-specific brackets that are mostly hidden behind the front bumper (obviously the tow bar itself sticks out a little even when folded up as pictured). I think I only had to drill one hole per side in the Jetta's "frame". It was quite a pain getting the full Panzer plates and Roadmaster brackets to play well together, though. I had to fabricate a couple extra brackets for the skid plate, and the front of the plate now sits about .5" lower than it did before, but that was the only way it would all work.

professorxjosh said:

Your Jetta is beautiful. I have probably sent that picture to at least 4 people giving support as to why I am lifting my Golf.

Click to expand...

Beautiful? Yikes! LOL You should see it in its normal work clothes A black car doesn't handle dirt very well. I'm sure some folks lift theirs for looks, but this was completely about practicality in my case, and it works really well. Average fuel mileage went from 43 to 39, but part of that can be attributed to the corrected odometer with the bigger tires. The other part is because of the taller car with slightly more wind resistance, and going from LRR Michelins to the larger all- terrain Yokohama's. I don't baby the car either, so I'm sure it would get a little better mileage with a lighter foot. Good luck with your Golf!

bdshort86 said:

Beautiful? Yikes! LOL You should see it in its normal work clothes A black car doesn't handle dirt very well. I'm sure some folks lift theirs for looks, but this was completely about practicality in my case, and it works really well. Average fuel mileage went from 43 to 39, but part of that can be attributed to the corrected odometer with the bigger tires. The other part is because of the taller car with slightly more wind resistance, and going from LRR Michelins to the larger all- terrain Yokohama's. I don't baby the car either, so I'm sure it would get a little better mileage with a lighter foot. Good luck with your Golf!

Click to expand...

I think those rims with those tires really give it a nice look. I will hopefully be doing the Moog springs, Bilstein TC struts/shocks, and all new bushings tie rods, etc. towards the end of May, early June.
I am also doing this for practicality. I live on a farm and my skid plate scraps 80% of the way down the road. Additionally I'm an avid scuba diver and many of the places I dive require some pretty rocky paths and roads. I also love the look of the lifted MK4's.
Will definitely be looking into those same tires you're running.

bdshort86 said:

...As others have noted, the speedometer is now dead-on accurate....

Average fuel mileage went from 43 to 39, but part of that can be attributed to the corrected odometer with the bigger tires. The other part is because of the taller car with slightly more wind resistance, and going from LRR Michelins to the larger all- terrain Yokohama's. ....

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The stock tires are 195/65/15, so shouldn't your odometer now be wrong since you went with 205/70 ?
How do we know it's now dead-on accurate?

I'm planning similar suspension work and some light 15's and LRR tires, but I was going to stay with the stock 195/65's

Because German speedometers are approx 5 mph off give or take...

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk

GASDAG said:

The stock tires are 195/65/15, so shouldn't your odometer now be wrong since you went with 205/70 ?
How do we know it's now dead-on accurate?

Click to expand...

Check your speedometer against GPS and you'll find the speedometer reads 3-5 MPH too fast

bdshort86 said:

Check your speedometer against GPS and you'll find the speedometer reads 3-5 MPH too fast

Click to expand...

Interesting... So adding the bigger tire makes the speedometer accurate against a GPS.. I just downloaded a speedometer app to my iphone and I'm gonna compare it tonight. My 195/65 tires are nearly beat and need replaced so my speedometer will probably be off by even more.
other question- Those Sparco Pista's are 15x6.5, correct? How do you think a 205/70 would fit on just a 15x6.0 ? Without the additional 0.5" of wheel, do you think it would be pushing the limit?
I'm going to go for these MSW's on my silver car... after full suspension refresh, I'll get the wheels and tires. But I'm wondering if 205 is too wide for 6" wide wheel...
.
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the speedometer is about 3-4% off, not a specific mph off.. It's programmed like that even if the odometer is spot on. If you adjust tire size or cluster coding to make the speedometer accurate, the odometer will be off..

GASDAG said:

Those Sparco Pista's are 15x6.5, correct? How do you think a 205/70 would fit on just a 15x6.0 ? Without the additional 0.5" of wheel, do you think it would be pushing the limit?
I'm going to go for these MSW's on my silver car... after full suspension refresh, I'll get the wheels and tires. But I'm wondering if 205 is too wide for 6" wide wheel

Click to expand...

Correct, my Sparco's are 15x6.5. A 205mm tire is basically 8", and I really don't think a .5" narrower wheel would make any noticeable difference, but consult the tire manufacturer's spec chart for whatever tires you plan to run just to be sure. They usually have an "acceptable wheel width range" for each tire size.

Also pay close attention to wheel offset and weight. There are slightly lighter wheels out there than the Sparco's, but they were the best choice for me in order to also get the width and offset I was after.

TDIJetta99 said:

the speedometer is about 3-4% off, not a specific mph off.. It's programmed like that even if the odometer is spot on. If you adjust tire size or cluster coding to make the speedometer accurate, the odometer will be off..

Click to expand...

My experience has been that the speedometer was closer to 5-6% off, but that is an excellent point of clarification that you make. I had forgotten about the odometer vs. speedometer programming on these cars.

That's so weird. I drove it last night with a gps app on my iphone and sure enough when the speedometer said 70, the GPS said 67. And it was off by 2-3 mph at all speeds. I definitely want the speedometer to be accurate so I can accurately speed on the highways... I'll be keeping this car forever so I don't care if the odometer is off by a few hundred miles at the end, I'd rather know if I'm speeding or not.

bdshort86 said:

My experience has been that the speedometer was closer to 5-6% off, but that is an excellent point of clarification that you make. I had forgotten about the odometer vs. speedometer programming on these cars.

Click to expand...

Yeah some seem to be a little farther off than others..

Gasdag, try it at 10mph, then again at 80-100 if you have the space

So...I own a 2004 BEW TDI golf 5 door and Im looking for some stiffer and/or taller springs. Havent decided on the ride height. Although I love this look:



1.)What are the spring rates for the moog springs from 1st post?

2.)Are there any springs (US or European) that are taller?

3.)I would like to understand that shocks dont matter what car/engine they are for(as long as mk4 generation)? Dont shocks have to be valved to certain spring rates?

Basically, no matter what spring I use, I will use golf TDI shocks? or are there benefits for using (for example) a golf vr6 shock or a wagon vr6 shock?

Im basically looking to upgrade 2 different ways.

1.) Keep it stock ride height, just stiffen springs. Give it very good handling. Im thinking of using Shine racing springs and Bilstein HD's for this route. Any objections?

2.) Raise car, 2 inches approx., to be able to use it on back-roads(mainly California). But haven't decided if I will have time to "just go out for a drive" or whether FWD will be sufficient. I think it just depends on the conditions and skill. I would love to have a car to do it all, but cant get my emotions get to me. Ive seen too many clean Jeeps that will never go "off road" or just go once a year and the rest of the year its being used in the city, all because of "I want to go anywhere, anytime".

Anyways, just want to see my options.

I've been trying to find the best way to do a 1.5 lift under $100. Looking through all the ways to do a lift. I've came with $40 moog wagen springs in the rear (i have them installed now and got a 1.25 lift) and having a local machine shop make 1.5 inch spacers for the front. This will level out the car. I talk with the local machine shop and i can get the 1.5 inch front spacers ALOT cheaper if i order more than just two. So i wanted to find out if anyone else was interest in this and i could make a bigger order. Let me know if any of you are interest.

Jason

I used 2 of these on each side (for just about 1")and it worked nice.
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=699

jayb79 said:

I used 2 of these on each side (for just about 1")and it worked nice.
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=699

Click to expand...

I have the same set up right now. There 10mm spacers. With two stacked it gives you 20mm (0.78 inch) lift. I'm looking to get 1.5 inch lift. I thought about stacking 4 to get a 1.57 inch lift but hear some people say not to stack more than 2.

bump for answer/insight to my earlier post

kristofk,
i have a 2" lift and VR6/wagon springs (same PN's that the OP used). Yelds about 2.5" lift. i dont know the spring rates. Ive been riding on them for about 45K miles. The ride is stiff but very responsive when cornering with cheap 195/65/15s. way better than it used to be. I want to get larger tires but am waiting for these tires to wear out. yes, shocks are valved at different rates for different springs, going from a stock to VR6 shock and spring setup is probably not much different. I bought the BlauSports VR6 shock kit, so my front shocks should be valved correctly. I warning i will give is that the springs need to be compressed VERY short in order to get the spacers and the mounts on the shaft. change your spring perches, too. that was the only thing i didnt replace and they are bad now. And Yes i have used my lift. it has saved me on some back roads and i have done 2 creek crossings.