bbob203
Veteran Member
I’m putting a BHW into a 4motion that does not have ESP but the Donor car does. It appears this was an option and some 4mo cars got it and some didn’t. Any insight on this swap and if it will have any benefits?
Is ESP worth it?
- Thread starter bbob203
- Start date
DeliveryValve
Veteran Member
If you are not familiar with the functions of ESP, check out these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akZ9AaFB7Zc&feature=related
https://youtu.be/yOwkwrM10hk
Forward to 6:02 minutes into this video for the start of the ESP portion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc
Here is a Self Study Guide. Main ESP portion is on page 40.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/VWUSA_COM_SSP_374_Traction_Control.pdf
Not sure how involve is it to transfer all the components, hopefully someone in the know will chime in.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akZ9AaFB7Zc&feature=related
https://youtu.be/yOwkwrM10hk
Forward to 6:02 minutes into this video for the start of the ESP portion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc
Here is a Self Study Guide. Main ESP portion is on page 40.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/VWUSA_COM_SSP_374_Traction_Control.pdf
Not sure how involve is it to transfer all the components, hopefully someone in the know will chime in.
.
Last edited:
DeliveryValve
Veteran Member
johnboy00
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2000
- Location
- Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
- TDI
- 2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
My Passat does not have it, but I've seen it in action on a big Top heavy Mercedes Sprinter Van. We were driving down a wet curvy road at night at about 50mph. We came around a corner and there was a dog in the middle of my lane. The other lane was clear and I quickly swerved around the dog. My 3 ton Sprinter handled like a Ferrari on a track (not that I know what a Ferrari handles like 
. I was ready to take out that dog if the van started to slip at all. it didn't and I was amazed.
. I was ready to take out that dog if the van started to slip at all. it didn't and I was amazed.
Uberhare
Veteran Member
I believe you will need an AWD ABS unit and controller from a car with ESP.
bbob203
Veteran Member
I can say unequivocally that ESP is worth it. Last night I fish tailed on a slick road with a lot of weight in the back of my wagon and the ESP put kept me from spinning into a killer ditch. I’m just going to sell the non esp car and get one already equipped.
nitec
Vendor
back up a bit - the 4motion is a B5? the ESP system is quite different between all the platforms so it may not be as easy as you think...the ESP in my 4motion TDI Golf is fairly complex and includes everything from the Haldex controller, wheel speed sensors, accelerometers, steering angle sensors and the ABS controller itself. In fact the heart of the ESP is the ABS controller. it's a great system but it is quite complicated to "swap" over
If you're swapping the engine into a 4motion B5(5.5) I would not consider swapping the ESP system primarily because it won't work between the two vehicles. ESP on FWD works differently and takes in different inputs from different sensors. Anecdotally I needed an accelerometer for my 4motion golf and realized that the NA MK4 platform with ESP also has the same sensor unit (one letter difference in the part number). After ordering 4 units on ebay and getting 2 more from the junk yard (exact same form fit) I realized that the FWD ESP accelerometer is a "duo sensor" so it only has 2 out of the 3 accelerometers in it (no lateral I think for the FWD). I had to source the same unit from a Toureg/Porsche setup that came with the third sensor. Again the only difference between them was one letter in the part number.
All the complexity aside, a FWD ESP will not work as intended with a 4motion chassis and my actually react in a manner that makes the situation worse - food for thought
If you're swapping the engine into a 4motion B5(5.5) I would not consider swapping the ESP system primarily because it won't work between the two vehicles. ESP on FWD works differently and takes in different inputs from different sensors. Anecdotally I needed an accelerometer for my 4motion golf and realized that the NA MK4 platform with ESP also has the same sensor unit (one letter difference in the part number). After ordering 4 units on ebay and getting 2 more from the junk yard (exact same form fit) I realized that the FWD ESP accelerometer is a "duo sensor" so it only has 2 out of the 3 accelerometers in it (no lateral I think for the FWD). I had to source the same unit from a Toureg/Porsche setup that came with the third sensor. Again the only difference between them was one letter in the part number.
All the complexity aside, a FWD ESP will not work as intended with a 4motion chassis and my actually react in a manner that makes the situation worse - food for thought
Last edited:
Matt-98AHU
Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Is it worth it? I guess that depends on your personal level of car control.
In my younger years (and also living in the snow belt) I used to say I'd never own a car without a hand brake lever. No goofy extra pedal or electric parking brake for me. Owned cars with not only no ESP, but no ABS and generally did just fine. Tire selection helps more than anything.
First snow of the year, I'd go find an empty, unplowed parking lot and go remind myself what the limits feel like and manipulate brake, parking brake, throttle and steering to get the feel for what to do when the unexpected happens. I could do quite a lot that way.
But, as ESP systems get better, realistically they can keep the car on track, manipulate individual brakes which I cannot do myself and react faster than I can. But, if I were still driving like I did in my younger years, I'd probably get annoyed that it intervenes when I don't necessarily want it to, making the car do things I don't expect.
To each their own. Not everyone is as nuts-o as I was back then.
In my younger years (and also living in the snow belt) I used to say I'd never own a car without a hand brake lever. No goofy extra pedal or electric parking brake for me. Owned cars with not only no ESP, but no ABS and generally did just fine. Tire selection helps more than anything.
First snow of the year, I'd go find an empty, unplowed parking lot and go remind myself what the limits feel like and manipulate brake, parking brake, throttle and steering to get the feel for what to do when the unexpected happens. I could do quite a lot that way.
But, as ESP systems get better, realistically they can keep the car on track, manipulate individual brakes which I cannot do myself and react faster than I can. But, if I were still driving like I did in my younger years, I'd probably get annoyed that it intervenes when I don't necessarily want it to, making the car do things I don't expect.
To each their own. Not everyone is as nuts-o as I was back then.
bbob203
Veteran Member
Yep I figured that most of the parts wont swap over so I’m going to buy a car that already has it.
imo000
Top Post Dawg
It may save your bacon when things go sideways in a hurry. Drive one with it and report back.
Last edited:
PickleRick
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2017
- Location
- Greenville sc
- TDI
- 05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Here in the south i find esp useless. There is always a chance of hydro plane in wet conditions but i find responsible driving, a low cog car and good tires usually eliminate that.
There is always a chance of snow and ice but rarely does not last more than a few days and rarely does it happen more than a time or two each winter.
If it was my only vehicle and i had a job that i couldn't miss due to frozen roads then yes it would be worth it but a set of studded tires on some spare wheels would also get me to where im going.
I do have the luxury of an 8000 lbs 4x4 sitting in the garage just for wintery condions and towing. The esp to me is just a feature i dont pay attention to. In my younger days i may have pushed this stage 2 5 speed diesel b5.5 to the limits but i have owned actual fast cars in the past and this in my opinion is a well built commuter car and nothing more, the 300 ft lbs of torque is impressive but much like that 45 second ride at Disney you waited 2 hrs to get on, it doesnt last long enough to really enjoy it (that's what she said). That being said, when i built my fast car i wanted zero traction control or abs, i wanted full control over every aspect of the vehicle. Despite popular belief a fwd car CAN have too much horse power!
The BHW torque is nice when merging into traffic or the occasional over loaded tow.
I have not yet taken the b5.5 up to the blue ridge park way but I'd be willing to bet she's fun on hair pin turns, with the esp off it would be interesting to see how that fancy suspension does.
There is always a chance of snow and ice but rarely does not last more than a few days and rarely does it happen more than a time or two each winter.
If it was my only vehicle and i had a job that i couldn't miss due to frozen roads then yes it would be worth it but a set of studded tires on some spare wheels would also get me to where im going.
I do have the luxury of an 8000 lbs 4x4 sitting in the garage just for wintery condions and towing. The esp to me is just a feature i dont pay attention to. In my younger days i may have pushed this stage 2 5 speed diesel b5.5 to the limits but i have owned actual fast cars in the past and this in my opinion is a well built commuter car and nothing more, the 300 ft lbs of torque is impressive but much like that 45 second ride at Disney you waited 2 hrs to get on, it doesnt last long enough to really enjoy it (that's what she said). That being said, when i built my fast car i wanted zero traction control or abs, i wanted full control over every aspect of the vehicle. Despite popular belief a fwd car CAN have too much horse power!
The BHW torque is nice when merging into traffic or the occasional over loaded tow.
I have not yet taken the b5.5 up to the blue ridge park way but I'd be willing to bet she's fun on hair pin turns, with the esp off it would be interesting to see how that fancy suspension does.
Mike_04GolfTDI
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2003
- Location
- Richmond, BC, Canada
- TDI
- Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
ESP allows you to do stupid things and not crash.
There are a few times where I very likely would have crashed without it. Or maybe I wouldn't have taken chances without it. There's two ways of looking at it.
There are a few times where I very likely would have crashed without it. Or maybe I wouldn't have taken chances without it. There's two ways of looking at it.
imo000
Top Post Dawg
All FWD cars are $hit in hair pin turns. RWD is where the fun is.
Uberhare
Veteran Member
Fixed that for you. Love the W8 in winter conditions! I forgot the rear ABS sensors were out until I locked up the brakes on the highway over the holidays! On the bright side ESP is always "OFF" or in "FUN" mode.
PickleRick
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2017
- Location
- Greenville sc
- TDI
- 05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Ive taken everything but an awd up there. My 2 favorite rides to the park way
Triumph Daytona 955i, close number 2 was a Ducati monster.
More tiring but 10x the thrill factor.