Adblue Topup Interval - normal or not?

dministrator · May 5, 2016

Hello Friends,

The dealership topped up Adblue when I went for 50K service (per the service notes); I went in a little early at around 49,400 miles.

I have now slightly over 54K on the odometer; the "Topup Adblue within 1500 miles" warning is appearing on the MFD.

Most of my driving is in Seattle Metro area with a lot of stop and go and many steep inclines and declines.

I will go to a truck stop and top it up; but is it normal to have this warning appear within about 5000 miles under these driving conditions? How frequently did you have to top up yours? Is there a possibility that the service notes/invoice is not telling the truth?

Please share your expertise. Thank you.

atc98002 · May 5, 2016

Nope, I'd say the dealer "forgot" to fill the tank. Most people are reporting 15,000 miles or more on a tank. Mine now has 22000 miles, been serviced twice (10 & 20K) and I've never seen a urea warning.

SirDeath · May 5, 2016

Unlikely but not impossible. Maybe they topped it up but not to full. Also (run into this in other makes) older BlueDef will sometimes show as inadequate quality/quantity. The stuff has a surprisingly short shelf life of only a year or so (the 44 months the manufacturers say is in IDEAL laboratory conditions and not reflective of the real world). If they used older DEF, the SCR system compensates by using more and draining the tank quicker. Give the dealership a call and maybe they will give you a "complimentary" freshen-up in case they didn't fill it all the way.

LogicBomb · May 5, 2016

I'd check the service invoice to see just how much they added.

I've noticed an increase in consumption since the 23N5 update, but nothing near the amount that would trigger the warning in only 4,xxx miles.

tdiatlast · May 5, 2016

...all of the above. My bet is dealer didn't fill to capacity.

jrm · May 5, 2016

my light is coming on every 5k and im dumping in 2.5 gallons every time.

pedorro · May 5, 2016

Quite possible you're experiencing a sensor/system failure. Bear in mind that if the display drops to 0 (zero) you won't be able to start the car. Get it checked sooner rather than later.

tdiatlast · May 5, 2016

jrm said:
my light is coming on every 5k and im dumping in 2.5 gallons every time.

Have you tried filling it?

Rico567 · May 6, 2016

The other thing that will bring the AdBlue light on is NOx sensor failure (replacement of the sensor makes it go away, has nothing to do with the amount of DEF in the tank). OTOH, this sounds like a DEF consumption issue, given the amount that's being put in. It's not normal to be using 2.5 gal. in 5,000 miles. Our car seems to be going at least twice that far on that amount. When I did the 40K service (the first one where I added DEF, the previous three services all having been free), it took about a quart shy of a 2.5 gal jug.

tdiatlast · May 6, 2016

^^^Unless the OP can confirm the dealer tech actually FILLED the AdBlue tank, everything is speculation. This is a very common tech oversight, documented many times here, which is why I do ALL my AdBlue refills.
I'd simply document the concern with the dealership (in their computer system), accurately fill the tank, and monitor it from that point. Easy: Drive 1k miles, refill the tank, note the amount (no different than measuring MPGs, right?)

No need to worry about excess consumption at this point.

jrm · May 6, 2016

tdiatlast said:
Have you tried filling it?

yeah over filled it while tring to add a 2nd 2.5 gallons. that got me to 8k before the light. Malone and rawtek souning pretty sweet to me

White Passat · May 7, 2016

My '13 is right on plan, filling every 10K miles and using most of 2.5 gals. I buy fresh jug of DEF every time rather than let it sit in a hot Texas garage. Usually some DEF left in the jug after each refill.

kulak · May 8, 2016

Just had my last free 30k service 2k mi ago at a Central Florida dealer. Bought a 2.5gal jug of urea at Sam's Club and the car took the whole thing.

Is this a case of the dealer 'forgetting' or designing non-warrantied repeat business when the 'light' goes on?

tdiatlast · May 8, 2016

I think many here give WAY too much credit to servicing personnel/dealerships, thinking they have the intelligence to be clever.
I think it's simply incompetence.

dropnosky · May 9, 2016

Sure sign of if they topped off the tank is there should be a mess in the trunk of splash marks. If its clean very unlikely they added any adblue.

dministrator · May 9, 2016

OP Here.

I spoke to the dealership about this; they asked me to bring it in for a refill. Went there this Saturday and they did it at no cost.

tdiatlast · May 9, 2016

...sigh...IMO, you still don't know if they filled it.

Simple. Buy the small (refillable) "Kruze" bottle, which screws directly into the tank. Wrap a shop towel around the fill opening, try to add more AdBlue. You'll then know for certain if the tank is filled.

I'm not really cynical, but rather, experienced!

jrm · May 9, 2016

tdiatlast said:
I think many here give WAY too much credit to servicing personnel/dealerships, thinking they have the intelligence to be clever.
I think it's simply incompetence.

True- I got the chance to chat with a Honda lube tech for a few hours- his lack of knowledge gave me cold chills down my spine with statements like "Hondas 0w20 oils flows fast and removes more heat than thicker oils that overheat before the have flowed threw the engine"

psd1 · May 10, 2016

Went 29K before I saw the warning.

kenners · May 18, 2016

Owning 2 - 2014 Passats, I've filled the DEF tank each time the local dealership has completed my yearly services. Equal to 4 times, each time I've added 6 to 14 cups of DEF. I also noticed windshield fluid had not been filled, called dealer and they stated they were out on that particular day. I've also picked up vehicles from non VW dealers for oil changes and services. Oil was missing 2 quarts, dealer stated they only put in 5 quarts - it takes 7. Asked why they don't inform owner, never got a good response. Same dealer told me they had done tune up on same motorhome, pulled spark plug, it was old and still had sock over air filter from new delivery. ALWAYS verify, NEVER assume !

ATR · May 21, 2016

kenners said:
Owning 2 - 2014 Passats, I've filled the DEF tank each time the local dealership has completed my yearly services. Equal to 4 times, each time I've added 6 to 14 cups of DEF. I also noticed windshield fluid had not been filled, called dealer and they stated they were out on that particular day. I've also picked up vehicles from non VW dealers for oil changes and services. Oil was missing 2 quarts, dealer stated they only put in 5 quarts - it takes 7. Asked why they don't inform owner, never got a good response. Same dealer told me they had done tune up on same motorhome, pulled spark plug, it was old and still had sock over air filter from new delivery. ALWAYS verify, NEVER assume !

It's really sad when shops sink that low.

Also sad that many people don't have the technical know how to verify some of those things that you mention.

fredthe · Jul 22, 2016

LogicBomb said:
I've noticed an increase in consumption since the 23N5 update, but nothing near the amount that would trigger the warning in only 4,xxx miles.

Yep, I've noticed an increase also, and the NY Lawsuit tells us why.

Volkswagen made these misrepresentations despite its knowledge that the
proposed software recalls – recalls whose true purpose was to turn down the defeat devices in the
Generation 1s (by increasing EGR and Lean Trap regeneration) and Generation 2s (by increasing
EGR and urea dosing) – would not bring the vehicles into compliance with applicable emissions
standards and, further, that they would increase fuel and urea consumption, respectively.

and

These notices were indisputably misleading. No dealer or customer who received
one would have understood why the recall was being conducted or the fact that the Subject
Vehicles’ urea consumption would likely substantially increase, in many cases requiring
consumers for the first time to refill their urea tanks between 10,000-mile service intervals.

atc98002 · Jul 22, 2016

I received the update quite a while ago, and have noticed no increase in urea (in that it hasn't needed filling between services at 10k and 20k) nor decreased fuel economy. I'm not disputing your results. It just seems that it might be something that is more affected by locality (local temps, terrain or other environmental issues).

Since I expect to sell back both of my diesels, I will probably not have the Passat long enough to know what the actual urea consumption is. I will likely only need to add some once before it goes back.

fredthe · Jul 22, 2016

atc98002 said:
I received the update quite a while ago, and have noticed no increase in urea (in that it hasn't needed filling between services at 10k and 20k) nor decreased fuel economy.

VW's estimates (referenced in the lawsuit) was that 20% of owners would need to refill in less than 10k miles. So for most there should have been no noticeable change.

tdiatlast · Jul 23, 2016

fredthe said:
VW's estimates (referenced in the lawsuit) was that 20% of owners would need to refill in less than 10k miles. So for most there should have been no noticeable change.

I'm with atc98002, no change in DEF usage, nor a change in MPG.

Curious as to how VAG arrived at the 20% number?

Drivbiwire · Jul 23, 2016

Urea is a function of how much idle time the engine sees.

NOx is formed mostly during low load operation.

If you drive mostly highway, 70+ you probably aren't using any urea.

City driving will always have the highest consumption.

VeeDubTDI · Jul 23, 2016

My understanding is that urea consumption is almost directly related to fuel consumption at about a 3% rate in normal situations. Urea consumption on Volkswagen's cheating gen 2 cars are more like 1-1.5% of fuel consumption.

Adblue Topup Interval - normal or not?

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