What nozzles? 11mm alh

So, I'm at a point with my conversion that I need to figure this out, and I need some outside input.

Stock ALH block and head
2.5 exhaust
Stock 11mm pump
AWIC and larger intake piping

Currently I have a stock VNT15. I will be upgrading eventually to a 17/22, but it will probably be a year before that happens. I want to buy nozzles only once. What nozzles would you get in this instance and why?

Thanks!

pp502, best of both worlds if u dont mind a bit of smoke. or pp764 if ur ok with lots of smoke.
best is to get pp520 or .216 equvalent like t4s, but u will want race 520s with the 17/22 no matter what u will choose in the end.

Buy some race520's get the set up for a really low flow setting for now. Then when you go 17/22 get the set up for more flow.

Save your money and just go with Titan 502 nozzles and have them balanced, and then get a RocketChip tune.

That VNT-15 is a lot better performer than most people think.

Get ahold of Jeff at RocketChip, he'll set you straight. :>)

Oh yes, and get an up-graded clutch, like an SBC Endurance Stage II or III.

Good luck,

im with m1ketdi seems logical to go with the biggest nozzle you can if you are going for a bigger turbo down the line race 520s ive heard can work very well with the vnt15 if you have a good tuner or get them set for less flow. it would save yourself a packet in the long run buying two nozzles . the pp764s are also a good comprimise but the race520s will give more power with the 11mm pump and 17/22

Titan 520s and forget about it.

I just went down this route and got sold on some Titan 502.
http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=636

I'm sure the Titan520's are nice and just fine, but I am very happy w/ my 502's.

My setup is very similar to where you are heading with yours, you can see my sig for my upgrades.

I have a thread running some where on this forum on this topic. There is another member in my area that is currently out of the country working, but is trying to set up a dyno day to do some side by side comp dynos' of some different nozzles.

We have the following nozzles that we will be comparing: R520's, PP764, Titan 502, .216's. We are trying to secure a set of Titan 520's on a set of injector bodies, but haven't had any luck thus far. We'll keep looking.

Whitbread also has a thread on the Titan 502's saying that he is running lower EGT's w/ theses. Smoke level is also very low w/ the Titan 502's, I can attest to that.

That said, you are going to be happy w/ any of the above. If having a set of injectors w/ DLC is a concern, then I'd say stick w/ the pp764's or the .216 w/ DLC.

Edit: one more thing - you are going to want to tie all this great hardware together w/ a good tune...you know the tuners out there...

Wow. Lots of info guys, thanks a lot! Please keep adding to this.

My biggest concern is the ability of the setup to live well with the VNT15 until I can upgrade to the 17/22. It's happening, but I need to push it out a bit as I'm a bit farther into this swap then I realized (doesn't that always happen?!). Between the original donor, the tune, nozzles, various parts to swap an ALH into a mkI, etc... I need to space out the spending a little!

I will be watching for the results of that Dyno Day OnePutt.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about the turbo just yet anyways. Bigger nozzles aren't going to cause your turbo to break or anything. They may cause your car to dump more fuel out the tail pipe, but that's about it. In fact, if you troll around here enough, you will find people that believe the turbo is one of the last pieces of hardware you should upgrade. I upgraded my turbo early on because my stock unit blew. If nozzles it your budget then I say go for it. The turbo can and will come later. But again...all of these goodies will only be as good as your tune is.

hey i dont know if anyone can help me i am after a 11mm head do you know which head is the best i.e. make already got the uprated nozzles and turbo so need the head to match it now. my car is a 1.9 tdi non pd thanks

OnePutt said:

Whitbread also has a thread on the Titan 502's saying that he is running lower EGT's w/ theses. Smoke level is also very low w/ the Titan 502's, I can attest to that.

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This information is incorrect. We didn't get the Titans to work right (wrong set was sent). The Bosch764's were the performers.

I'm still on the fence at the moment till we can confirm where I need to go with bigger nozzles.

Bigger nozzles aren't going to cause your turbo to break or anything.

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I'd troll a bit more on that one =) Too much fuel can cause overboost/creep/surge issues if the turbo isn't set for that much fueling. Better safe than sorry.

kooyajerms said:

This information is incorrect. We didn't get the Titans to work right (wrong set was sent). The Bosch764's were the performers.

I'm still on the fence at the moment till we can confirm where I need to go with bigger nozzles.

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i see....I read his post incorrectly. I thought he was saying he didn't break 1250F w/ the Titans...but does say Bosch. My bad.

kooyajerms said:

I'd troll a bit more on that one =) Too much fuel can cause overboost/creep/surge issues if the turbo isn't set for that much fueling. Better safe than sorry.

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Is that true on a stock tune? I guess I haven't been paying attention enough....

NP, I'm jealous you even got a set of Titans =) Would have been nice on the dyno.

I've been tossin around the idea of titans when I get the $$$ for nozzles. With an 11mm pi and pd lift pump on a 17/22!

MoldovaDIZEL said:

pp502, best of both worlds if u dont mind a bit of smoke. or pp764 if ur ok with lots of smoke.
best is to get pp520 or .216 equvalent like t4s, but u will want race 520s with the 17/22 no matter what u will choose in the end.

Click to expand...

pp764's will give you 3% more than pp502 fuel/smoke whatever.

cog said:

im with m1ketdi seems logical to go with the biggest nozzle you can if you are going for a bigger turbo down the line race 520s ive heard can work very well with the vnt15 if you have a good tuner or get them set for less flow. it would save yourself a packet in the long run buying two nozzles . the pp764s are also a good comprimise but the race520s will give more power with the 11mm pump and 17/22

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i agree the bosio R520's if set up correctly, will work great even with a stock turbo, buy them once and spend the rest else where.

Here's a different view: don't buy any nozzles until you upgrade your turbo. With an 11mm pump you can get very good power with stock nozzles, the right tune and a VNT-15. And contrary to what an earlier post said, too much fuel will melt your turbo. An EGT gauge should be in your plans somewhere.

When people ask me what size nozzles to buy at least part of my answer is "ask your tuner." He's the one who has to meet your goals and make the car run right, so he should get to pick. At Jeff's recommendation I have PP502s with a 17/22. Originally ran it with an 11mm pump but now have a 10mm (long story). The car still makes good power (167/290 at the wheels) and runs great. There was a time when PP502s were flowing nearly as much (if not more) fuel than PP764s, but that's no longer true.

If you ask Jeff what to run with the 17/22, I'm betting he'd say PP502s or 764s. Probably not Race nozzles unless you port the head. And his usual recommendation with a VNT-15 is Sprint 520s. That's a big difference, which is why I'd stick with stock until you upgrade the turbo.

Stock for me would be the stock ones that come on an automatic.

Granted, the jump from 48hp/70ft-lbs to 90hp/150ft-lbs should be sufficient until I get nozzles and Chris's turbo. I honestly hadn't considered leaving the stock nozzles in at all until now.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Here's a different view: don't buy any nozzles until you upgrade your turbo. With an 11mm pump you can get very good power with stock nozzles, the right tune and a VNT-15. And contrary to what an earlier post said, too much fuel will melt your turbo. An EGT gauge should be in your plans somewhere.

When people ask me what size nozzles to buy at least part of my answer is "ask your tuner." He's the one who has to meet your goals and make the car run right, so he should get to pick. At Jeff's recommendation I have PP502s with a 17/22. Originally ran it with an 11mm pump but now have a 10mm (long story). The car still makes good power (167/290 at the wheels) and runs great. There was a time when PP502s were flowing nearly as much (if not more) fuel than PP764s, but that's no longer true.

If you ask Jeff what to run with the 17/22, I'm betting he'd say PP502s or 764s. Probably not Race nozzles unless you port the head. And his usual recommendation with a VNT-15 is Sprint 520s. That's a big difference, which is why I'd stick with stock until you upgrade the turbo.

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that is true, but IF the big nozzles are set up properly there will be no smoke, low egts and a ton of power. im still running the RC3 tune.

but if you mount a R520's in a vise then install, or just pop test them, in a mickey mouse device and install, yes you will melt a piston!

RC2 and sprints are great ( had them) car scooted
17/22 PP520's and 11mm pump RC4 or RC5 is what Jeff has said is a hot ticket too.

a lot of concideration to should be given to guages, intercooler, and breathing mods....helps keep anything in better check.

i have a heavy wagon and the turbo is last to be upgraded, the turbo is the choke point. and i never thought my heavy wagon with a loaded trailer could rip so well.

but to each his own. it's like i'm already hearing the titans are better than bosio? really? guys are already swearing by these and don't even have them installed in the car yet...


maybe ill get some juvenile bashings in the P.M.

Lol! I'm loving the input. And have no bias towards much of anything other than the 17/22. And that's only because Chris (dieselpower) WILL be upgrading to a 22/60 and I'm buying his 17/22. I help him, he helps himself But that's not for a year or so. I know I'll need nozzles when that time comes, especially since the automatics come with small nozzles. I never really thought about leaving them with the vnt15 until now. That makes too much sense...

Breathing mods and a good EGT/Boost gauge combo are already planned as well since I need to custom fab my exhaust (the stock 1.6 isn't going to work) and intake (stock ALH stuff won't fit in the mk1 chassis) and have a gauge hole that will be empty with the 1.6 gone.

diesel-dave said:

that is true, but IF the big nozzles are set up properly there will be no smoke, low egts and a ton of power. im still running the RC3 tune.

but if you mount a R520's in a vise then install, or just pop test them, in a mickey mouse device and install, yes you will melt a piston!

RC2 and sprints are great ( had them) car scooted
17/22 PP520's and 11mm pump RC4 or RC5 is what Jeff has said is a hot ticket too.

a lot of concideration to should be given to guages, intercooler, and breathing mods....helps keep anything in better check.

i have a heavy wagon and the turbo is last to be upgraded, the turbo is the choke point. and i never thought my heavy wagon with a loaded trailer could rip so well.

but to each his own. it's like i'm already hearing the titans are better than bosio? really? guys are already swearing by these and don't even have them installed in the car yet...


maybe ill get some juvenile bashings in the P.M.

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Dave - No bashing here. I'm not saying these are better than the Bosio's...I don't know, I've only had stock, t4's and the titans. I DO have the Titans installed and I'm having a ton of fun building my wife's divorce case...errr...i mean...a ton of fun building a fun ride.

I'm all for dyno'ing the Titan 502's against some R520's and a set of Titan 520s vs. pp764 vs. .216 (the .216's just because I have them) to get some real data. I will try to work this into my schedule so peeps can see.

...and I'm a mental minor...not a juvenile!

This is just my opinion, but I think a Pyro/Boost guage should be first, before any mods. That is what I did, then installed .216 nozzles. My Boost levels climbed from 13psi to 20psi, this is with the stock turbo. Then I installed a VanAaken Smartbox, which I know is not the same as having a tuner work on the car, but the additional fuel pushed boost levels to 26psi....3 months later while hot rodding through town boost levels hit 35+ psi at 4000RPM and BOOM! Good bye turbo, my theory is the added heat eventually caused the actuator to stick and my boost levels to sky rocket.

Anyway, I think a tune and turbo should probably be done at the same time, I upgraded to a VNT-17 and my EGT's dropped considerably and my boost levels are now at a very reasonable 15psi.

Yeah, I'll begetting retuned with the turbo change for sure. Doesn't make much sense to me to not get retuned. As for initial tune, I have to get that for at least the IMMO delete and a few other features that won't be necessary/available/fit in the mk1. And being tuned, I will need to have some gauging since riding around with the laptop in the passenger seat all the time is a bit too F&F for me. <Danger to Manifold!>

I think at this point I'm going to stick with the stock automatic nozzles, and talk with the tuner about nozzle choice when I pick up Chris's 17/22 down the road. Feel free to carry on the discussion, as I would love to hear more real world results from folks with similar setups as I'm shooting for, including dyno results.

brownktm19 said:

This is just my opinion, but I think a Pyro/Boost guage should be first, before any mods. That is what I did, then installed .216 nozzles. My Boost levels climbed from 13psi to 20psi, this is with the stock turbo. Then I installed a VanAaken Smartbox, which I know is not the same as having a tuner work on the car, but the additional fuel pushed boost levels to 26psi....3 months later while hot rodding through town boost levels hit 35+ psi at 4000RPM and BOOM! Good bye turbo, my theory is the added heat eventually caused the actuator to stick and my boost levels to sky rocket.

Anyway, I think a tune and turbo should probably be done at the same time, I upgraded to a VNT-17 and my EGT's dropped considerably and my boost levels are now at a very reasonable 15psi.

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ummm cool, but you should of been running a reasonable 15 psi on the stock turbo then with the 17vb 22-24 hahaha

question: did the stock turbo feel powerful at 35 psi before it went boom?

diesel-dave said:

ummm cool, but you should of been running a reasonable 15 psi on the stock turbo then with the 17vb 22-24 hahaha

question: did the stock turbo feel powerful at 35 psi before it went boom?

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Dave as you know from when we last spoke at Marks house I'm still currently running 16-17 psi on Alligator stage 1 tune , 11mm IP, VNT-15 and stock nozzles. .When i put in the PP764's i ordered from Kerma and go with a stage 2 tune should i see 20 psi ranges? i know my EGT's will climb a little too . .
My plan is 17/22 if i can ever unload the 993TT Big Reds and 2 piece rotors i have sitting in my garage to help the turbo fund . .

And sorry we missed you at last weekends GTG in Richmond . .

ummm cool, but you should of been running a reasonable 15 psi on the stock turbo then with the 17vb 22-24 hahaha

question: did the stock turbo feel powerful at 35 psi before it went boom?

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true, it should be running around 20psi, but as I said, no tune, just a smartbox. plus she needs a rebuild, so I am trying to keep the car alive until I save the money to do the job right.

did it feel powerful??? heck yeah! It was screaming!

brownktm19 said:

true, it should be running around 20psi, but as I said, no tune, just a smartbox. plus she needs a rebuild, so I am trying to keep the car alive until I save the money to do the job right.

did it feel powerful??? heck yeah! It was screaming!

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I bet the ghost was screaming til it gave up !!

brownktm19 said:

true, it should be running around 20psi, but as I said, no tune, just a smartbox. plus she needs a rebuild, so I am trying to keep the car alive until I save the money to do the job right.

did it feel powerful??? heck yeah! It was screaming!

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screaming for mercy

OnePutt said:

I have a thread running some where on this forum on this topic. There is another member in my area that is currently out of the country working, but is trying to set up a dyno day to do some side by side comp dynos' of some different nozzles.

We have the following nozzles that we will be comparing: R520's, PP764, Titan 502, .216's. We are trying to secure a set of Titan 520's on a set of injector bodies, but haven't had any luck thus far. We'll keep looking.

Click to expand...

Stay tuned for the dyno day, I am finishing my schedule for April to find a few dates to test all of these combo's. There is an RC#, RC4, RC5, RC6 donor cars lined up and I would like to find some TDTuning and Malone tuned cars to add to the mix as well.