TDI 76 Beetle

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
I guess I have a weakness for the classics, or maybe too much time on my hands but....
I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but it kinda defies categorization, if not logic. Started with a pretty rust free 76 aircooled beetle. It had been converted to carburation and needing some help. The engine had been removed and installed in a Baja project, also incomplete. We acquired the original engine, and the Baja, but what fun is that? Sure it isn't much to look at yet, but being the type to fix it mechanically and doing body and shiny stuff last, we launched into a project. It all sounds about normal for a post here, but for the age of the car maybe. The ultimate goal is diesel power.
Since people want pictures more than prose I have taken a few to document our insanity. First, a before pic:


https://i.imgur.com/QsZWD90.jpg
Our goal is to make the car appear pretty much normal and stockish looking from the outside so space in the engine bay was paramount. We had settled on Diesel power for the torque and fuel mileage aspect, as well as the "Huh!" factor. We have a few options ranging from the late common rail TDI down to the normally aspirated 1.6 diesel to choose from. The common rail is the ultimate of course but weren't sure there would be enough room, especially when you factor in the semi stock looking goal. We started mockup with a common rail block and Kennedy adapter to gauge length and height. We managed to get it in there but there was very little room for the belt pulley without excessive cutting. It did fit though however so we were not discouraged and proceeded a by placing a random head on the block to gauge other clearance. The adapter is clocked at 15 degree increments so we played with straight up and down mounting, 15 degree (stock) mounting, and 45 degree Vanagon style mounting.
First tried straight up mounting, it showed the most promise for hood clearance with the cam sprocket. When you take the diesel pump into consideration there is no room under the hood for it at that angle.

We also tried the Vanagon 45 degree mounting, which also fit but had more hood issues to deal with so that proved to be not viable. The best of all for hood clearance was the stock 15 degree mounting.


The sharper ones among you will notice that the engine doesn't look like any diesel you have seen. The reason there is that for mock up purposes we first mounted our spare common rail 03L block to gauge clearance first, and after that we found a random head from a 1.8 gasser to gauge other clearances. We threw a random pump and mount to gauge that clearance etc.
Once we saw that the fitment of a diesel engine looked more promising, we mounted the engine we decided was the best option, all things considered. We settled on a AHU with a manual pump hybrid that we had laying around after our cut down beetle common rail project.


The ALH is a little shorter than the CBEA both in length and height so it fits just a little better, though the pulley area around the water pump had to be clearanced no matter what we tried. Due to the immense power of parts hoarding we had several different mounting bracket from various VW and other brand engines. VW was very good about keeping the mounting ears similar on blocks over the years regardless of gas or diesel application, so many bolted right on. The biggest problem we encountered was alternator mounting as most of the brackets we found mounted it high on the engine neat the injection pump where there just wasn't hood clearance. We did eventually use a VW bracket but had to redrill and fabricate it a little to mount the alternator low and on the other side.


Next stumbling block is cooling. We do have an alternate plan for front radiator mounting we may have to revert to, but for now we are going to try the rear mounted radiator. Found an aluminum "racing" radiator for an Acura Integra that shows some promise. It is a two row radiator and we got it with the flashy red fan that can be mounted on either side and run either direction. Once mounted in place it appears to provide enough clearance to clear the hood. Hopefully there will be enough airflow from the fenderwell and hood slots to provide enough cooling.


Seen from this angle it shows the compactness of the whole package. We are awaiting a scrap hood that was promised to us to experiment on the cutting and forming process. It appears in this configuration that there will be little modification to fit and hopefully we can kinda hide the mods with careful remounting of the license plate light cover and plate itself to conceal the "power bump"
Project currently on hold now for a flywheel to be made for the conversion. We wanted to work out the possibility of fitment before spending the money. We mounted the engine without flywheel and clutch for ease of mock up. I suspect we will need to unmount the transmission and juggle it around some to fit the package together with a clutch mounted on the engine due to tight clearance issues.
In the meantime we will remove the engine again and clean up and probably paint and prep the engine compartment while waiting for the flywheel to mount it permanently. Need to work out fuel lines and throttle cabling, and many many other items before it is driveable.
 
Last edited:

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Did the motor bolt right up to the Beetle trans?
They use to make Rolls Royce hoods for them.
Maybe one of those for the radiator?
Don't remember if other real lids were made that might work.
I'm wondering how the clutch will fit with mix & match parts.
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
Did the motor bolt right up to the Beetle trans?
They use to make Rolls Royce hoods for them.
Maybe one of those for the radiator?
Don't remember if other real lids were made that might work.
I'm wondering how the clutch will fit with mix & match parts.
The engine needs an adapter to bolt to the Beetle transmission. Kennedy makes them. The largest clutch you can run in a beetle trans is 215mm, but it would have to be custom made too. Kennedy offers a 200mm flywheel that bolts to the water coolers and accepts the beetle 200mm clutch. To hold more torque you can get different stage clutches. We have a stage 2 already from previous install.

They made rolls, and Benz hoods, among others, but we are trying to keep it semi stock looking. there used to be a continental kit rear deck lid for beetles too that we have considered, but think we can adapt a stock hood with minimal cutting.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
There was a local guy here a few years back that I saw had put an AWP/02J from a 2002 GTI in the "middle" of his '70 Beetle. He cut out a section of the body and mounted it kind of under the rear glass, and built a nice cover for it inside the car. It was a really nice job, actually. And the radiator was mounted in the engine compartment (the Beetle's original firewall was cut out). From the outside, the car looked totally and completely 100% stock save for the wheels, repro Empi 8-spokes, which looked period anyway, and a slightly lowered stance in front.

Car tipped the scales at about 1200 pounds less than the GTI he said, and it was stupid quick. Had no back seat, of course.

I think the ALH, even in stock form, even moving the light Beetle, will be taxing the transmission pretty good, assuming the clutch will hold.
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
The engine we are using is kind of tried and true, so to speak. We pulled it out of a 69 beetle that had been cut off to make a pickup. It has lived in that beetle for several years. The transmission has held up pretty well to the ALH with a stage 2 200mm clutch. We put a common rail in it instead lately.

We are a little concerned about it with the common rail, it tends to make the side plates weep a little if you make some spirited tire smoking runs, though seems to heal again if you cool it and drive semi normally. It does make you grin though when you roll on the throttle, so cooling it is hard, at least at first. We did have to strengthen the clutch for the extra power.

The real problem with the older beetle is the gearing. The later beetles, 73 on had the freeway flyer trans with the 3.73:1 final drive that should be a little more suited to the diesel engine hopefully. Want to retain the stock appearance except for a set of Porsche wheels. The rear seat and firewall may have to disappear in the future for cooling issues. We too have tossed around mounting the radiator there to retain stock appearance.

I have pondered a common rail DSG engine swap into the beetle too, but have these parts already around and looking for a home. I am always on the lookout for a reasonably priced salvage TDI car for swap materials. Got my eyes on a type 4 fastback to power up, and kinda want to build a Jetta Ute too.

Call me crazy.
 
Last edited:

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
Haven't had a ton of time to spare for projects. Kind of a good thing in one way, but we have had a little spare time. Installed the clutch and flywheel and starter and adapter on the mock up engine and reinstalled. What a tight fit to get it into place, the clutch and flywheel complicated the clearance issues.

Got a throttle cable mocked up and fuel tubes blown out and hooked up, coolant hoses sorted out, and a couple other things. Started the engine and it runs fine. Confirmed the transmission had all it's gears and the clutch functioned. Ran the engine up to thermostat opening and let it cool down again, topped up coolant and ran it again to finish bleeding cooling system. All looks good there.

Now for the little details to work out like reassembling the car and fixing the age related problems of the car. The car can now be driven in and out of the shop under it's own power, which is always a plus. We could even drive the car if it were licensed, but will wait for that till we get the car actually roadworthy.

Some progress is always better than none to report.

Obligatory photos:




 
Last edited:

CRSMP5

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Location
NE OHIO
TDI
idi
imo... that alt will slip the belt on the crank under any load... you need to look for a dasher or quantium with ac alt mount... hangs it where you want too and then get the pully set too and life will be great.. but you do not have enough belt to crank to prevent slipping.. bad as the water pump will also not be turning
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
I agree, I do not like the belt configuration much either and keep rehashing the design in my mind. It is a very hard package to tuck everything into while keeping our goal of a hood that shuts and looks near stock. You wouldn't happen to have a part number for the Dasher mount would you? We have the hoarder gene and not thrown out many parts over the years and may even have one.

We tried several different mounts to try to attach the alternator and they all had problems with clearance, or they hung too low, or too high. I have considered trying to run a serpentine belt with a tensioner placed to get more wrap around on the pulley, which was the original intent, but pulley and rear apron clearance is the issue there. I do not want to cut the body any more than i have to, but that may be the ultimate end. I may end up with a double pulley arrangement like the Jetta with power steering had, but that is a thick pulley package too.

At least now we can run the car and work out other details. There are many more design details to work out.
 

CRSMP5

Veteran Member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Location
NE OHIO
TDI
idi
well.. again.. why not get a double crank pully.. *** came with them.. double cast into 1 pully.. and then use one for wp, other for alt? this way both compleyly wrap the crank? only a belt thicker so room vs the bolt together 2 kind.. i bet 75ish bunny had a double cast/stamped one to run the smog pump and wp/alt... but dasher and audi4000 should have double cast together pully.. cause ac/alt on the gassers
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
Packaging constraints are the biggest problem, and continue to be. We have considered going Full Baja, but that would be too easy. I am sure I will end up with a narrow double pulley arrangement in the end, but there really is very little room to work with. We were originally going to stick a common rail engine in it, but it was longer and taller and even tighter so we we dropped back to plan B. Actually the original idea was to use a normally aspirated 1.6 diesel, but....

Working now on intake and exhaust mockup. Due to limited room you kind of have to hang all necessary components on before you finalize anything. Have had to redesign a couple of things so far as other pieces get in the way. It is amazing how the simplest of tasks prove harder than you thought, like belts, and throttle cable, and more. Kind of like building a car from scratch it seems.

I have had swap projects brought to me to be finished up where the customer tells me: "I got the hard part done, the engine is in there, you just need to make it run." I am very quick to inform them that the hard part is just about to begin and query as to how much they expect to spend finishing it.

Luckily this project is just a silly notion/experiment derived from my twisted mind and not tied to the job clock. We have already far exceeded in chargeable hours value of the car completed in engine fitment alone.
 

Growler

Got Soot Vendor
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Millersport, Ohio
TDI
Schmutz, 2015 Golf Sportwagen DSG & Schnurren, 2001 Golf GL 2 door 5M
in all of the photos are you using an AHU/1Z motor for mockup?

because the ALH has completely different systems fo rthe waterpump and alternator etc on it than the MK3 style blocks..

I am sure you know this already, Im just seeing you talk about an ALH motor but not seeing one in any of the photos.

this is a cool swap and I do look forward to your progress reports.
 

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
You could run the alternator off an axle output ala-audi group B/trans am cars.


I'm only half serious, not sure how well this would work on a road car.
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
in all of the photos are you using an AHU/1Z motor for mockup?

because the ALH has completely different systems fo rthe waterpump and alternator etc on it than the MK3 style blocks..

I am sure you know this already, Im just seeing you talk about an ALH motor but not seeing one in any of the photos.

this is a cool swap and I do look forward to your progress reports.

Busted! sort of. You are very correct, it is not an ALH specifically. It is a hybrid/frankenmotor built by the VW mechanic that actually owns the beetle we are converting. I call it ALH in loose reference to the cylinder head it wears. It also has a mechanical diesel pump, and later style turbo with the vanes locked at a sweet spot. It has many miles on it from it's former life in a cut down Beetle flatbed that we have now converted to a common rail.

We just had that engine hanging around after the swap, and the beetle out in the back lot. One thing led to another and it just ended up in the beetle.

The later ALH block would simplify the water pump issue, and I do have an ALH block and head with fresh parts in it laying around, but none of the supporting parts like injection pump and computer and timing components and such. This one was a runner and simple with the mechanical pump, so it got the nod for mockup, and before we knew it we had it running.

I guess in the future I will just call it a TDI to avoid confusion. I really didn't know what to label it as. Kind of depends on what part of it you are looking at. I have other cars and motorcycles with the same problem.

It is turning into a fun swap, especially now that it is running. Just have to work out a million more details.
 
Last edited:

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
You could run the alternator off an axle output ala-audi group B/trans am cars.


I'm only half serious, not sure how well this would work on a road car.

We have considered that possibility. We figured that it is only an old beetle with no great electrical needs and none planned. We have looked int garden tractor alternators, Samarai, metro, and other small cars too. Even generators. Latest iteration is with a GM alternator, but who knows what tomorrow will bring.

It has been truly an inspiration driven project so far and any new ideas are very welcome.
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
It is hanging from the transmission just like the air cooler did. It is not as heavy as you think in comparison to the air cooler. This same engine has been running a TDI hybrid mechanical pump for years the same way, in another beetle conversion..

This engine has much more power than the last one. We did add a couple of engine braces lately to try to wheel wheel hop on burnouts. I was going to post early next week anyway to report 1/8 mile times. We are planning to take it to a local dragstrip this weekend for a "run what you brung" weekend 1/8 mile fest.

Edit: wrong posting partly. Yes it does just hang on the transmission alright, but the rest of the post I confused it with the common rail beetle pickup that we have running and plan to run at the 1/8 mile. The 76 is running but not near that complete yet. The engine in the 76 is the one that formerly powered the now common rail beetle that I have another post on this site detailing that project. Sad when I can't keep my projects straight.
 
Last edited:

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
the diesel weighs 150-175 pounds more than the air cooled engine without coolant and oil ... there's a reason vw installed mounts and carrier bars on the diesel vanagons and i'd be concerned about long term fatigue on the bell housing with the extra weight even farther out than the opposed four .... and maybe these are strong enough to handle that extra weight ... they just seem weak to me being magnesium ... cool project BTW ;)
 
Last edited:

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
We did a ton of research (online of course, because I hate heavy lifting) The VW aircooler is listed pretty consistently at 215 lbs, 245 with heater boxes and carbs. The VW TDI is listed in most charts I could find in the neighborhood of 280 lbs. You could add a little more for coolant, say 10 lbs. The starter weight is on the transmission in this application and the alternator add a little more too. 20lbs?, never weighed one.

I have seen sites where the shipping weight of a complete TDI was stated at 330 lbs, so we used that number for comparison. 330-245=85 lbs difference. The TDI engine is about 3 inches longer of you exclude the beetle muffler so there is a bit more hanging out back.

The common rail equipped beetle cut down flatbed we have running weighs 2000 lbs on the scale with operator in the cab, or roughly 1820, wet weight. The listing of curb weight on a 70 beetle is 1850, and that is without fluids. The same common rail car has run the TDI we are putting in the 76 for years with no ill effect, though the owner/driver does report that the transmission is showing signs of wear and looseness sound after all those years. It is a pure stock 69 4 speed that came in the car originally. Mounts are holding up well.

The handling is similar to my stock survivor 68, except the stock 68 will not go sideways in 3rd gear on a wet street like the common rail car. (quite a surprise when that happens on a throttle roll on)

It will be interesting to roll the uncut beetle on the scale for comparison, but it is a ways away from roadability at this point. Personnel changes at work have taken away my unsupervised playtime for a while, so progress on the project will slow even more. I am very interested in total weights, and also weight bias. We will weight all versions we have for front axle weight, total weight, and rear axle weight as we roll across the scales.

It is a fun project. I hope to get it on the road this summer with all it's drawbacks, and advantages. That engine in the other car regularly returned 50-60 MPG in general driving with much more torque than the car really needs, which translated into general fun at stoplight dragraces.
 

Hasenwerk

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Location
Quesnel, BC
TDI
1982 Cabriolet (BEW|VNT17|Stage4), 1989 VW TriStar Syncro soon-to-be CR TDI (CBEA), 2001 Ford Ranger Edge 4x4 (ALH|VNT17|R520|Stage4)
My experience is that if you use a cast aluminium adapter plate (like Kennedy Engineered), the studs will eventually pull out as the material is too soft. I had this happen with my former Vanagon TDI were the engine (ALH) was supported by the pulley side motor mount. The weight / torque eventually pulled out the bottom studs on the adapter plate. I ended up making a pair of metal pieces that bolted to the engine and the other half of these bolted to the transmission and an M10 bolt / nut on these metal pieces is what held everything together.
 

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
There is a reason we used the cut up beetle for a prototype. There is room all around the powertrain to keep an eye on things. So far it has been good, but I will keep an extra vigil on the adapter tightness now. Thanks for the heads up.

The only issues we have had with the drivetrain at all is that after spirited runs the transmission side plate will weep a little for a while. If we cool it for a few drives it heals back up.

Our engine has no accessories but the alternator. But even if we factor the weight at 375, it still leaves a difference of only 130 lbs. We have lately added a support brace from the engine guard/bumper assembly to the engine just in case.

On the Type 4 common rail swap, if it materializes I have plans for a much more elaborate engine support cradle. The beetle doesn't have much room for fabrication and the car is light enough that wheelspin is the weak link, not the engine mounting.

Like they say, "Give a monkey a crescent wrench and he will bolt things together that don't belong."
 

markd89

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
1978 VW Bus 1Z TDI
My experience is that if you use a cast aluminium adapter plate (like Kennedy Engineered), the studs will eventually pull out as the material is too soft. I had this happen with my former Vanagon TDI were the engine (ALH) was supported by the pulley side motor mount. The weight / torque eventually pulled out the bottom studs on the adapter plate. I ended up making a pair of metal pieces that bolted to the engine and the other half of these bolted to the transmission and an M10 bolt / nut on these metal pieces is what held everything together.
As someone using the Kennedy aluminum plate, I'd be very interested in seeing any pics you may have of what you did to reinforce your setup!
 

GTiTDi

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Location
3 Spruce st Wareham, gateway to Cape Cod Massachus
TDI
'91 GTI CJAA swap,'02 Jetta wagon ALH swap, '03 GTI 1.8T rally car, '03 Sprinter 3500
in all of the photos are you using an AHU/1Z motor for mockup?
.
Aaron, you're correct
Busted! sort of. You are very correct, it is not an ALH specifically. It is a hybrid/frankenmotor built by the VW mechanic that actually owns the beetle we are converting. I call it ALH in loose reference to the cylinder head it wears.
Still NOT an ALH...ALH head does not bolt on to earlier blocks..plus the one in the pics has the water flange on the front of the head and an ALH head does not...

There is enough confusion amongst Noobies over which code is which, no need to add to it
 
Last edited:

pdq import repair

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2016
Location
idaho
TDI
09 Jetta
I have been going through the tedious task of first learning a new photo posting service, then replacing photos in the sites that photobucket screwed up. Plus i have lost my service manager and have had to take over front desk duties once again so I have had little unsupervised playtime, thus progress has slowed but hasn't stopped altogether.

The next huge goal is to cover the engine. We got a scrap hood and after many unsuccessful tries we finally have something that will cover the engine mocked up out of cardboard. The power bulge is a little bigger than I imagined but...





The next hurdle is to come up with a hinge setup that will allow the bulbous thing to open. I have a couple ideas, just not much time to experiment. Alternatively we have an option to leave it as a lift off hood, but no points for originality with that.
 
Last edited:
Top