WANTED: Bosio race 683 nozzles to fit v6 tdi engines

adamss24

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Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Fitted a gtb2260vk to my other allroad tdi last week, initial results i wan't overly impressed with it but after tweaking the N75 map a little and adjusting the actuator it starts to grow in my eyes. It builds boost in a much more gradual manner but it surges a lot at 75-80 Mph in 5th or 6th gear on motorway ! I had no problem with any of my other turbos before with the same tune, however i don't have much time on my hands to tweak my own cars as i am too busy with customers cars ! I need to dyno the car before i swap in the other gtb2260vk with the titanium compressor wheel, i hope to have good results with that. Clutch is slipping already and i am keeping the torque capped at 500Nm just to get it to last a little longer. I have a Sachs SRE clutch waiting to be fitted when i have a bit more time...




 

adamss24

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Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Swapped the hybrid gtb2260vk with titanium compressor wheel and it's getting better, the strange surge at 75-80Mph when stepping on it is gone and the car pulls nice and strong trough all the rev area. Working on a better tune and as soon as i get the clutch changed i will take it on a 4 wheel dyno.
Also looking at remote oil coolers, seen the one on Darkside's website however it's a bit pricey for the thermostatic kit. All in all not a bad turbo for 300 Bhp or thereabouts...

 

diffas

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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Whats the rpm you are getting spooling to full boost on 3rd/4th gear for example?
 

adamss24

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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Sorry Diffas, cannot do a proper boost log as the clutch slips like mad in 4th gear if i step on it. The hybrid boosts a bit late but holds it consistently higher up the rev range, the stock gtb was spiking then started to surge at 75-80 Mph in 5th/6th with severe vibrations felt trough the car...

I might need to wind in the stop screw a little, these v6 engines does not like too closed VNT as it creates too much back pressure...when i am done with mechanical adjustments then i will adjust N75 duty cycle to compensate and smooth out the spikes...
 

diffas

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I had similar "problems" with my vnt. Was little nasty to find correct setup for the vnt. But it was better when adjusted vanes more open with stop screw. After all it is finding best compromise between spooling and emp. :) I'm having emp over boost 0.7bar always no matter what turbo was in. I think that is something to cams related. I'm having 2bar boost around 3200 with 3rd and 3000 with 4th gear with my gtx. It is almost as my last vnt. :D
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
Hi,

Let me introduce myself as this is my first comment.
I am from Hungary the land of the mechanical VE pumps :)
I have 3 TDIs at the moment
1992 Audi 80 (B4) 1.9 TDI 1Z@207hp
1999 Audi A6 (C5) 1.9 PDTDI AVF@~200hp
1999 Audi A6 (C5) 2.5 V6 AFB stock

I would like to change my AFB as the stock setup is very weak. My idea at the moment is bigger nozzles stock turbo@1,6bar (later vnt20/gt2056 hybrid), custom exhaust, chip tuning. The goal is somewhere 200-250hp 350-450Nm, so definitely not an overkill.

I have 2 sets of AFB injectors and wondering which nozzles would better fit to this purpose.

Any idea/recommendation is more than welcome.

Cheers, Joey

ps: the good old audi 80 is for sale (http://olx.hu/hirdetes/audi-80-tdi-krezidiesel-tdiextreme-207le-374nm-ID25Zjd.html). It has 11x3.1 mechanical pump - capable of deliver up to 250+hp - 0,26 nozzles, GT2052@1.9bar, race clutch, race coilovers, S2 brakes, custom intercooler + many goodies. It can do 207ps and 376Nm on the dyno.
With a turbo swap to GTB2260 it is capable up to 260-280hp. The price is 2900€
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic9B9NRpKTo
 

adamss24

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Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
I would say to get a set of Bosio power plus 683, they will fit the AFB injectors and should be fine for 250 Bhp as your pump has no fuel limiters. Also you can use Bosio race 683, they are relatively cheap and have potential to flow enough fuel for over 350 Bhp. With the right mapped ecu and few supporting mods you can do really well !
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
I would say to get a set of Bosio power plus 683, they will fit the AFB injectors and should be fine for 250 Bhp as your pump has no fuel limiters. Also you can use Bosio race 683, they are relatively cheap and have potential to flow enough fuel for over 350 Bhp. With the right mapped ecu and few supporting mods you can do really well !
Thanks!
Is there a reliable source of Bosio power plus 683?
Ebay or local dealer?

I would like to have a smoke free car, so I would not go for the race 683
 
Last edited:

diffas

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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Looks like +66% nozzles from cpc are also pretty capable. I did dyno on last weekend ~330hp/650nm and thats IQ only 40mg/str seen by ecu. That's the same you have stock 150hp engine. There is still some fuel waiting for bigger turbo. :D Oh and the problem is that we haven't found rev limiter that goes past 5000rpm on wot. Freely it runs 6000rpm easily.

Upper rev run.


dynorun
 
Last edited:

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Looks like +66% nozzles from cpc are also pretty capable. I did dyno on last weekend ~330hp/650nm and thats IQ only 40mg/str seen by ecu. That's the same you have stock 150hp engine. There is still some fuel waiting for bigger turbo. :D Oh and the problem is that we haven't found rev limiter that goes past 5000rpm on wot. Freely it runs 6000rpm easily.

Upper rev run.


dynorun
That little a4 must feel scary with 330 Bhp and front wheel drive ! Very good results !
 

diffas

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Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
You're using the 0.64 A/R turbine housing on your GTX2863R, right?
Yeah. Maybe I'll try 0.84 housing in sometime or switch into gtx3067r .

adamss24, that thing ain't scary at all. :)
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
Thanks!
Is there a reliable source of Bosio power plus 683?
Ebay or local dealer?

I would like to have a smoke free car, so I would not go for the race 683
Guys,

I am confused now.
Asked a quote from CPC and dieselkontor.de (thank you both if you are reading this). The confusion is that I don't know which way to go.
Either bosio, or CPS's.
CPC seems for me too big - even the smallest one. Diffas just dynoed 330 from it (congratulations by the way). I am quite familier with the options in 1.9, but quite new to 2.5.

So again what would fit best to my needs? Currently I am planning bigger nozzles, straight rear mufflers, and chip. The main reason for the nozzle to keep the pump healthy and to have better fuel economy.
Later I may change turbocharger, but I really like currently that I have torque from 1100 rpm.

Also I am looking this pdf: http://www.sevendiesel.it/public/cataloghi/Nozzles_Catalogue_2013-12_+_Updates.pdf
I asked quotes from other suppliers and I got a hint that a particular CR nozzle would fit. Looking at the PDF it has 152° spraying degrees instead of 142°.

So can somebody confirm the Bosio's parameters (nr of holes, diameter, spraying angle) to make sure they will fit (150hp AFB injectors)?

(I have 2 sets of AFB injectors, but I am looking for a set of 180 AKE inj. My only concern is that all the time the 1 injector with the sensor is missing from the set. Sellers are saying it is used to fail so others are buying only that one. Can somebody tell me what will happen if I loose that signal? Would the ECU be able to adjust "injection advance" or will it set a calculated value? I know I will not be able to log it anymore, but will there be another issue?)

Sorry for the questions, I am a newbie in this area, and locals doesn't have too much experience with 2.5 here.
 

diffas

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Jun 25, 2008
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Finland
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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
I was very satisfied for bosio bsla143p970 (that is bosio own type for Iveco nozzles) nozzles. Not sure if they fit into AFB injector body because I haven't work with nozzles.
They are like type says with 143 spray angle and 8x0.16 spray holes.
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
I was very satisfied for bosio bsla143p970 (that is bosio own type for Iveco nozzles) nozzles. Not sure if they fit into AFB injector body because I haven't work with nozzles.
They are like type says with 143 spray angle and 8x0.16 spray holes.
Those are good ones, but for AKE injectors unfortunately.
 

adamss24

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Nov 2, 2005
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Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
The only upgraded nozzles that fit AFB injectors are the Bosio's PP or race 683 nozzles, i tried them both and still running them in my cars. Bosio race 683 will idle nicely on stock 2 plungers VP44 pump but will shudder a little on idle with 3 plunger pumps as they dump too much fuel in at idle. The solution is to increase pop pressure- easy done even on both stages. The AFB injectors are easy to set up but time consuming with shims and a pop pressure tester...
 

mojogoes

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May 1, 2003
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england
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mk3 tdi golf
Ah ah adam!! So you do know one of the two ways how to get them to work with out them dumping to much fuel at idle?
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
The only upgraded nozzles that fit AFB injectors are the Bosio's PP or race 683 nozzles, i tried them both and still running them in my cars. Bosio race 683 will idle nicely on stock 2 plungers VP44 pump but will shudder a little on idle with 3 plunger pumps as they dump too much fuel in at idle. The solution is to increase pop pressure- easy done even on both stages. The AFB injectors are easy to set up but time consuming with shims and a pop pressure tester...
Ok, I would send it to a people who is going to adjust them as I don't have the tools and knowledge.
I don't know what sort of pump I have (2 or 3 plunger). How could I check?

Also if a nozzle let's the pump deliver too much fuel on idle, can it be adjusted during chip tuning? Just a question.

Also can you please provide from where you got those sets?
+1 nobody knows the dimensions of the power plus nozzle. Will the spraying angle fit?

thx
 

diffas

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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Increasing opening pressure you get decrease in fueling on low revs and timing is also going little late. That helps on idle a little bit. With big enough nozzles you get lope/unstable idle no mater how high the opening pressure is. I'm running 300bar opening pressure with cpc +66% nozzles and still it is not running steady idle... Shame it is not possible to scale big nozzles to the pump ecu so you can adjust idle iq with mapping.
 

adamss24

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Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Increasing opening pressure you get decrease in fueling on low revs and timing is also going little late. That helps on idle a little bit. With big enough nozzles you get lope/unstable idle no mater how high the opening pressure is. I'm running 300bar opening pressure with cpc +66% nozzles and still it is not running steady idle... Shame it is not possible to scale big nozzles to the pump ecu so you can adjust idle iq with mapping.
Genuine Bosio 683 nozzles on stock pop pressures and with full 3 plunger pump on allroad tdi and it idles very nicely ! Fueling is massively pulled at low revs and under 3000rpm's and it's a verynice drive ! Taking it to a dyno session for a comparison... Running a gtb2260vk with 10 blades Ti compressor GTA style. Done a map on a friend allroad today with similar mods but hybrid 2266v turbo, much more top end and linear power delivery at only 2.8 Bar of boost. His clutch slips like mad in 4th/5th and 6th gear- standard though- Sachs SRE is on order !
 

diffas

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Jun 25, 2008
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Finland
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B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
That is all depending how much iq you have at idle. I'm running 1.5-2mg/str at idle so no room for nozzle compensation there.
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
Genuine Bosio 683 nozzles on stock pop pressures and with full 3 plunger pump on allroad tdi and it idles very nicely ! Fueling is massively pulled at low revs and under 3000rpm's and it's a verynice drive ! Taking it to a dyno session for a comparison... Running a gtb2260vk with 10 blades Ti compressor GTA style. Done a map on a friend allroad today with similar mods but hybrid 2266v turbo, much more top end and linear power delivery at only 2.8 Bar of boost. His clutch slips like mad in 4th/5th and 6th gear- standard though- Sachs SRE is on order !
Just a question: do you have any experience here with kevlar clutch? They are fairly cheap and very capable. I have it in my 1.9 and it is very smooth to drive and very good in torque.
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Just a question: do you have any experience here with kevlar clutch? They are fairly cheap and very capable. I have it in my 1.9 and it is very smooth to drive and very good in torque.
Nope, i used sintered clutches in few of my cars with bad results- too grabby and on/off feeling, nothing in between ! I would stay with organic disc as much as possible- if it slips then i will just use a stronger pressure plate !
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
Nope, i used sintered clutches in few of my cars with bad results- too grabby and on/off feeling, nothing in between ! I would stay with organic disc as much as possible- if it slips then i will just use a stronger pressure plate !
You should try the kevlar, it is very smooth to drive and very strong at the same time. It costs about 50-100EUR, so consider it for the future.
Even Audi Hungary was using it - unofficially - as replacement.
I have only 1 concern: below -15 degrees the first start is on/off like, but this is all.
 

adamss24

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Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
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audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
You should try the kevlar, it is very smooth to drive and very strong at the same time. It costs about 50-100EUR, so consider it for the future.
Even Audi Hungary was using it - unofficially - as replacement.
I have only 1 concern: below -15 degrees the first start is on/off like, but this is all.
What's the Nm rating of the kevlar clutch plate ? I will need something that holds 600-650 Nm without much bother and long lasting at the same time...
 

gr8tjoey

Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Location
Hungary, Budapest
TDI
'92 1Z@207PS, '99 AVF@~200PS, '99 2.5 AFB stock
What's the Nm rating of the kevlar clutch plate ? I will need something that holds 600-650 Nm without much bother and long lasting at the same time...
There are dyno paper from 550Nm on 228 single plate with no problem so the 240 should last.
 
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