2012 TDI decision help

Rmohd · Jan 31, 2014

Hello all,, been lurking for 2 years, great place for info. didnt feel I had much to add as this is my first VW TDI got it in 3/12, wifes car and we love it.. now the question, our turbo had to be replaced and we are going to get it today, (I will fill in the turbo info into the correct area later as I dont have all the details yet ), I am looking for expierianced and/or Mechanic opinions. We still plan to drive it atleast till the 3/36 is up but have some fears now as to the original plan was to take this car into the 300,000 mile range. (currant milage is 22k) I know there is more maintenance than a gaser on the TDI car and have planed to keep it up to be able to run the car this long, here are my q's

Please dont repond unless you answer the following,

1. What is your experiance with VW 2012 and up TDI's.

2. I hear alot about it could be the regeneration cycles being interupted causing turbos to fail. where does this regen occure? looking for physical location on the car, and how do you feel this affects the cars extended life

3. does this car realy need to be warmed up at start and cooled down before shut down to be a high milage car ?

I dont want to sound like an AZZ, I just am looking for info from folks that Know this car,, not VW and Diesels in general, we are trying to decide if we want to stay on the path with this car or cut our loss in a year and move on, I know all auto mfg. have issues, ( not bashing VW ) but if this car truely was not designed to be able to take cold starts, shuting down during the regeneration cycle and needs to idol to cool down after driving to stay alive for extended life, ?? not sure the benifits will out weigh the issues.

I will and have been searching post to get as much info as possable but thought i would ask,,

Again I will post my turbo failer later this weekend as I want to have the car info before I start. headed to the dealer now and will get as much info as i can,,

thank you in advance,,

We want to keep the car,, just dont want to be making trips to the garage every couple years due to poor engineering issues as i have not been able to locate a good independant garage in my area,, ( less than 60-80 miles) and the dealership, well they are ok, but not very informative when i ask question, my zip code is 61259 in Illinois. if anyone can help with that.

Also my dealer said this was the 1st turbo in the 2012 and up passat they have replaced..? that has me a little on edge ......

sorry for the long 1st post,,

BPofMD · Jan 31, 2014

As in most auto/truck forums, you will ALWAYS hear more about the bad (failures) times than everyone else that have only "good" stories. I have had my 2012 Passat SE since April 2012.... I don't drive it anywhere near as muck (or far) has most do in the forum, but enough to say that it's been 12k miles in all kinds of weather and temperatures without so much as a hiccup. About the only complaints I have is the trunk lid doesn't open EVERY time I hit the remote (not a big deal) and the dang company that updates the maps for the radio wants 4 times as much as I'd like to pay to update it! WOW - big problems, eh?

Guess it might sum it up if I'd just say if it was totaled today I would run straight to the VW shop and pick up another!

VeeDubTDI · Jan 31, 2014

Rmohd said:
Hello all,, been lurking for 2 years, great place for info. didnt feel I had much to add as this is my first VW TDI got it in 3/12, wifes car and we love it.. now the question, our turbo had to be replaced and we are going to get it today, (I will fill in the turbo info into the correct area later as I dont have all the details yet ), I am looking for expierianced and/or Mechanic opinions. We still plan to drive it atleast till the 3/36 is up but have some fears now as to the original plan was to take this car into the 300,000 mile range. (currant milage is 22k) I know there is more maintenance than a gaser on the TDI car and have planed to keep it up to be able to run the car this long, here are my q's

Please dont repond unless you answer the following,

1. What is your experiance with VW 2012 and up TDI's.

2. I hear alot about it could be the regeneration cycles being interupted causing turbos to fail. where does this regen occure? looking for physical location on the car, and how do you feel this affects the cars extended life

3. does this car realy need to be warmed up at start and cooled down before shut down to be a high milage car ?

I dont want to sound like an AZZ, I just am looking for info from folks that Know this car,, not VW and Diesels in general, we are trying to decide if we want to stay on the path with this car or cut our loss in a year and move on, I know all auto mfg. have issues, ( not bashing VW ) but if this car truely was not designed to be able to take cold starts, shuting down during the regeneration cycle and needs to idol to cool down after driving to stay alive for extended life, ?? not sure the benifits will out weigh the issues.

I will and have been searching post to get as much info as possable but thought i would ask,,

Again I will post my turbo failer later this weekend as I want to have the car info before I start. headed to the dealer now and will get as much info as i can,,

thank you in advance,,

We want to keep the car,, just dont want to be making trips to the garage every couple years due to poor engineering issues as i have not been able to locate a good independant garage in my area,, ( less than 60-80 miles) and the dealership, well they are ok, but not very informative when i ask question, my zip code is 61259 in Illinois. if anyone can help with that.

Also my dealer said this was the 1st turbo in the 2012 and up passat they have replaced..? that has me a little on edge ......

sorry for the long 1st post,,

1.) My experience with the 2012 has been pretty good so far. It's a well-designed vehicle at an affordable price with excellent driving characteristics. Is it perfect? No. Should one expect perfection from a reasonably priced midsize car with a lot of complex components? No.

2.) Regeneration cycles take place in the exhaust system, specifically between the engine and the muffler. The regeneration cycle primarily consists of extremely high exhaust temperatures that burn the accumulated soot out of the DPF. Shutting the engine down during one of these cycles is the equivalent of shutting the engine off in the middle of towing a trailer up a mountain.

3.) In my opinion, the car needs to be driven gently for the first mile to allow all of the components to warm up before receiving full load. The engine should also be allowed to cool down prior to shutting it off. The best way to do this is to install a ScanGauge or other OBD2 monitoring device that displays exhaust temperatures. If your pre-turbo exhaust gas temperature is above 450F, let it idle until it drops below 450F.

Two words: Mechanical Sympathy.

Understanding how your vehicle works and how your inputs as a driver affect all of the systems is key to ensuring that your vehicle performs for many many years to come.

ABS · Jan 31, 2014

1. I have a 2014 and drive about 190 miles per day RT on my commute. The Passat is a machine, there is no such thing as a perfect one. You will have maintenance, and component failures will occur. That said, from a value equation, I find the Passat ideal for my purposes, much like I did with my Mk3 and Mk4.

2. Regen cycles occur when the soot loading in the DPF reaches 45%, sensors detect a rise in back pressure due to the filter loading. As you read you'll notice that several folks with longer commutes see reduced AdBlue consumption. This is likely due to "passive" cleaning as higher EGT's are maintained for longer periods, essentially "self cleaning" to a degree anyway, as the higher EGT's oxidize and burn out trapped particulate. Whereas those with short commutes do not see the same EGT characteristics so the system forces a regen cycle. During the cycle the ECU will raise boost pressures slightly. There's a great FAQ on www.myturbodeisel.com that goes into more detail if you want to read up.

3. Warm up does not equal start and leave idling. To warm the TDI, start it and drive. I d recommend not exceeding 2000rpm until the engine is fully up to operating temp. Cooling down is much the same, let the vehicle cool down some either in low load, lower speed driving or to VeeDubs point, by idling a few minutes prior to shut down.

These are great cars, taking the time to understand how your driving style affects the systems will be worthwhile in ensuring you get all you can from it.

I am sorry to hear about the turbo issue!

VeeDubTDI · Jan 31, 2014

Less AdBlue consumption on the highway would be directly related to the higher fuel economy (lower fuel consumption) during that sort of driving cycle. AdBlue and DPF regeneration are mutually exclusive.

Rmohd · Jan 31, 2014

how do I tell my wife to know when the car is in a regen cycle ?

VeeDubTDI · Jan 31, 2014

If you have something that monitors EGTs, explain what the numbers mean. Consistently high EGT = regen.

Rmohd · Jan 31, 2014

we don't, but I am over in the FAQ, section learning and I found the answer about rpms, wife will watch and see if we notice at shut down,,

good info on here,,just need more hours in the day to read

30_Yr_Dsl_Veteran · Jan 31, 2014

Rmohd said:
how do I tell my wife to know when the car is in a regen cycle ?

She does not need to. She just turns the key, drives, and shuts key off when she gets there. Nothing special!

BPofMD · Jan 31, 2014

I suggest buying the ScanGauge II. This is it here. http://www.scangauge.com/ Available from many sources.... try Amazon - AutoZone (watch for pretty good deals here) or other places.... Like Camping World for instance.

TurboDieselPoint · Jan 31, 2014

Personally, I feel as though a Scangauge is not necessary for the driver to track active regens. I caught my car in its very first active regen the other day at 350 miles on the odometer. If you know what to look for, its pretty noticeable. I first noticed it because the idle was above 800 RPM instead of the usual idle below 800 RPM. The instantaneous MPG also dropped during this short time period. The turbo was also more audible, since the VGT vanes were tightening down to raise exhaust back pressure and hike up the EGTs a bit more, and to also build a bit more boost to make up for any potential loss of power and keep the driveability the same. And, of course, the fans radiator fans immediately turned on full blast while the regen was under way, another giveaway of the active regen. I also got out of the car and felt how hot the exhaust coming out of the car was, and it certainly was toasty!

After I noticed the regen, I drove on the freeway at 55-60 MPH in 5th gear, and the regen ended in less than 10 minutes. Then I drove the car for a few additional minutes, downshifting when slowing down to facilitate the cooling of the turbo before I shut the car down. Very easy!

ABS · Jan 31, 2014

VeeDubTDI said:
Less AdBlue consumption on the highway would be directly related to the higher fuel economy (lower fuel consumption) during that sort of driving cycle. AdBlue and DPF regeneration are mutually exclusive.

Thanks! I did lump all that together didn't I..? I need to do a better job of not rushing and and taking a minute to proof my posts... Again thanks for the clarification/correction!

nord · Feb 1, 2014

1. What is your experiance with VW 2012 and up TDI's.

Three 2013 TDI's (2) SE MT (1) SEL Premium

2. I hear alot about it could be the regeneration cycles being interupted causing turbos to fail. where does this regen occure? looking for physical location on the car, and how do you feel this affects the cars extended life

Regens tend to occur more frequently if the car is used for shorter trips. Interruption during a regen had to be a consideration when the car was designed. The relationship between interrupted regens and turbo failure? I tend to think there isn't much if any connection.

3. does this car realy need to be warmed up at start and cooled down before shut down to be a high milage car ?

Drive this car like you would any other. Diesels are slow to warm and efficient enough not to produce a lot of excess heat even at operating temp. This is one reason that even high mileage TDI's display such clean engine bays as there will be very little heat damage.

I dont want to sound like an AZZ, I just am looking for info from folks that Know this car,, not VW and Diesels in general, we are trying to decide if we want to stay on the path with this car or cut our loss in a year and move on, I know all auto mfg. have issues, ( not bashing VW ) but if this car truely was not designed to be able to take cold starts, shuting down during the regeneration cycle and needs to idol to cool down after driving to stay alive for extended life, ?? not sure the benifits will out weigh the issues.

Too early to predict DPF life but I expect the majority will be fine for a very long life. Don't listen to the "warm up and cool down boys". Your car will be just fine. Shutting down during a regen is not the kiss of death. All the same your Passat will appreciate a nice road trip from time to time.

I will and have been searching post to get as much info as possable but thought i would ask,,

Again I will post my turbo failer later this weekend as I want to have the car info before I start. headed to the dealer now and will get as much info as i can,,

Turbos have been known to fail. Usually a bad turbo will fail within the warranty period. Obviously not a problem anyone wants. All the same we need to remember that VW doesn't make the turbo and that they probably aren't any happier than an owner when one goes belly up.

General observations about the TDI:

Diesels are a bit different than their gasoline brethren. Service is slightly different but the differences are actually pretty minor... Unless you listen to your dealer or someone who might profit by convincing you otherwise.

Diesels over time hold their value much better than gassers. This tends to offset the initial purchase penalty.

TDI fuel economy will offset the premium we pay for diesel fuel over gasoline.

Drive a diesel and then a gasser. Do you enjoy constant gear changes, or do you like placing the car in sixth gear and mostly leaving it there? Do you enjoy stopping for fuel or do you enjoy knowing that you have a range of 700 plus miles?

Suggestions about adding monitors to the system? Do it if you please. Otherwise I'd suggest that you drive more and worry less. Your Passat was designed to make the average driver or passenger unaware that a TDI was under the hood. VW is well aware that this is the only way to attract more American drivers to the diesel. Just remember that very few drivers here in the US even know or care about that little TDI badge! It's just those few of us diesel nuts who always look for that badge and appreciate the taste of the owners.

We want to keep the car,, just dont want to be making trips to the garage every couple years due to poor engineering issues as i have not been able to locate a good independant garage in my area,, ( less than 60-80 miles) and the dealership, well they are ok, but not very informative when i ask question, my zip code is 61259 in Illinois. if anyone can help with that.

Also my dealer said this was the 1st turbo in the 2012 and up passat they have replaced..? that has me a little on edge ......

VeeDubTDI · Feb 1, 2014

I see your "don't listen to the warm up and cool down boys" and raise you a "don't listen to the 'it's designed to be just fine' guys."

nord · Feb 1, 2014

I'll call with a tank full of unfrozen AdBlue.

Salsaman06 · Feb 1, 2014

VeeDubTDI said:
1.) My experience with the 2012 has been pretty good so far. It's a well-designed vehicle at an affordable price with excellent driving characteristics. Is it perfect? No. Should one expect perfection from a reasonably priced midsize car with a lot of complex components? No.
2.) Regeneration cycles take place in the exhaust system, specifically between the engine and the muffler. The regeneration cycle primarily consists of extremely high exhaust temperatures that burn the accumulated soot out of the DPF. Shutting the engine down during one of these cycles is the equivalent of shutting the engine off in the middle of towing a trailer up a mountain.
3.) In my opinion, the car needs to be driven gently for the first mile to allow all of the components to warm up before receiving full load. The engine should also be allowed to cool down prior to shutting it off. The best way to do this is to install a ScanGauge or other OBD2 monitoring device that displays exhaust temperatures. If your pre-turbo exhaust gas temperature is above 450F, let it idle until it drops below 450F.
Two words: Mechanical Sympathy.
Understanding how your vehicle works and how your inputs as a driver affect all of the systems is key to ensuring that your vehicle performs for many many years to come.

x2

food for thought

on warming up - I had a 2006 New Beetle before the Passat. It had a blue light on the dash indicating when the engine was cold. The owners manual explicitly stated ( i am paraphrasing here since I don't have the manual anymore) to drive slowly and gently until the light went off. I've never seen a manufacturer ever have one of those lights except VW. That they did this indicates an acknowledgment from the manufacturer that you should not overstress the engine until warmed up. So the warm up idea has merit.

on cooling down - extreme heat will always, always destroy whatever it comes in contact with. Always. When and how much destruction depends on the temp and the material exposed to that temp. (what destroys the soot in the DPF?) No one knows for sure what the high temps of the regen cycle is doing to the components exposed to it over a period of time.

Is it really that much of an inconvenience to exercise a little "mechanical sympathy"?

tdiatlast · Feb 2, 2014

Salsaman06 said:
x2

food for thought

on warming up - I had a 2006 New Beetle before the Passat. It had a blue light on the dash indicating when the engine was cold. The owners manual explicitly stated ( i am paraphrasing here since I don't have the manual anymore) to drive slowly and gently until the light went off. I've never seen a manufacturer ever have one of those lights except VW. That they did this indicates an acknowledgment from the manufacturer that you should not overstress the engine until warmed up. So the warm up idea has merit.

on cooling down - extreme heat will always, always destroy whatever it comes in contact with. Always. When and how much destruction depends on the temp and the material exposed to that temp. (what destroys the soot in the DPF?) No one knows for sure what the high temps of the regen cycle is doing to the components exposed to it over a period of time.

Is it really that much of an inconvenience to exercise a little "mechanical sympathy"?

I will always be uncomfortable shutting down ANY ICE if I know the exhaust temp is 1300f +. If I have the ability to "assist" a cool down, I will always choose that option. Ditto for warm-up.
I'm not one to believe the engineers are concerned about vehicles exceeding 300k miles. IIRC, the DPF on my 09 ($4k one-piece unit

) is designed with a c. 150k miles service life, on average.
Yes, the radiator fans are running full speed during a regen. Yes, the system is designed to dissipate heat. But seriously, 1300f heat soaked exhaust/engine bay, shut the engine down? I will continue to drive until a regen is completed, whenever possible. (No one has yet mentioned the ABS control unit adjacent to all that heat...

To each his own.

nord · Feb 2, 2014

I'll add to my previous post in case I've been somewhat misunderstood...

A conservative "warmup" is one thing. Extended idle time in an attempt to warm up is another. A conservative warmup merely means being considerate of a cold engine and drivetrain for a bit. Common sense really. Extended idle time risks cylinder wash. Unlikely given our computerized systems but possible. In any case it does little positive for economy and doesn't really warm the engine.

Cool down? Best to avoid shutting down during a regen if possible but not the kiss of death. Just best not to make a habit of doing so.

Take reasonable care of your car and it will take care of you. Don't take shortcuts on maintenance. Don't use cheap components.

And as I recommended in my last post... Drive more and worry less.

VeeDubTDI · Feb 2, 2014

Bingo!

tdiatlast · Feb 2, 2014

Thanks, nord. I thought we were closer to agreeing than your original post!

jrm · Feb 2, 2014

Other rigs I have driven light up the yellow DPF icon during a regeneration, ours only lights when plugged- is there any way in VCDS to change it to light on active regen? Wife could use this, she has interrupted them several times as the longest stretch of highway is between the last traffic light and home so it always enters regeneration just before home.

VeeDubTDI · Feb 2, 2014

jrm said:
Other rigs I have driven light up the yellow DPF icon during a regeneration, ours only lights when plugged- is there any way in VCDS to change it to light on active regen? Wife could use this, she has interrupted them several times as the longest stretch of highway is between the last traffic light and home so it always enters regeneration just before home.

Isn't that annoying when your commute is just long enough for a regen to begin, but not finish?

TDICT · Feb 3, 2014

I think you guys are over thinking the situation. 2012 TDI SEL with 70,000 miles. 2009 Sportwagen TDI sold with 85k. Only issues were replacement of some light bulbs. Drive with common sense. Diesels will be slow to warm when not under load. real cold days start slow and it will soon warm up. short idle before shutting down so that turbo is not spinning without oil pressure. Still driving a 2000 Powerstroke 7.3 Excursion with over 240,000 miles.
Drive your car,service by the book and you should get many miles from your Passat.

Yankinwaoz · Feb 4, 2014

I have a 2012 TDi SE with sunroof and nav. I have 48000 miles on her now.

I could not be happier. This car is awesome.

I did make the dealer replace the factory Hanook tires for Michelin MVX4's when I bought her. It cost me $600 more, but I think it was worth it.

My mileage averages 37. That is because there are a lot of hills here in San Diego, and stop and go traffic. Plus I tend to drive a little on the fast side, about 70mph when I can.

Deezil_n_Dachs · Feb 5, 2014

jrm said:
Other rigs I have driven light up the yellow DPF icon during a regeneration, ours only lights when plugged- is there any way in VCDS to change it to light on active regen?

I think this is a great idea! Hope some of the guru's will give it some consideration.

Rmohd · Feb 5, 2014

thanks to all who have offered input, this the good side of these sites, 2nd I love the idea of a way to signal during a regen cycle. I have been thinking of looking for a way to add a light to the relay that triggers the heat on for a regen, or possibly tie it into the fan cooling motor input ,, would be nice for the wife as then she could be sure as when the light was on let it run till its off,,,

thanks again all.

2012 TDI decision help

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