A case of extreme sludge

Here is one for the ages.

2006 BRM 187K
All dealer and a couple of indi shops have serviced the car for a good many miles.

The car came in for a camshaft change.
It was ailing from zero power and popping sound.
I figured it is the typical deformed valve lifters getting opened by the neighboring injector lobe on the camshaft syndrome.
When I opened the valve cover I was taken aghast. I've never seen an engine this sludged out. The dipstick registered full.
I pulled the oil filter and I could not see the ribs of the filter.
I pulled the oil pan and WOW :


4.5 quarts of oil that won't drain out of the pan.




OK, so WHY?

The engine has 5 broken (from wear, not lost timing) lifters.
The oil was changed 2000 miles ago and 5000 miles prior to that.
Castrol 5W40 synthetic was used and changed by a reputable foreign car service facility.

I am compelled to get this "stuff" analyzed.

Could it be the correct oil with an ungodly amount of soot mixed in to thicken it? The oil is the consistency of custard and I imagine that the pump had issues circulating it.

The turbo is whacked.

The car starts right up.

I don't even want to take it apart. YUCK!

I’ve never seen anything like that, maybe someone intentionally put some type of crap in this guys engine?

Subscribed.*

Yikes, that's super nasty! Maybe coolant caused that sooty snot mess? If there was ever a case for an engine flush treatment...

turbobrick240 said:

Yikes, that's super nasty! Maybe coolant caused that sooty snot mess? If there was ever a case for an engine flush treatment...

Click to expand...

It’s nasty, but there is no coolant in that.

turbobrick240 said:

Yikes, that's super nasty! Maybe coolant caused that sooty snot mess? If there was ever a case for an engine flush treatment...

Click to expand...

I agree about the engine flush, but what to use?

banshee365 said:

It’s nasty, but there is no coolant in that.

Click to expand...

Looks like glycol contamination to me. The oil/sludge is grey not black, the water could have mostly evaporated if the car was run long enough at operating temp.

whitedog said:

I agree about the engine flush, but what to use?

Click to expand...

I'm a cheapskate, so I'd pour some warm diesel/biodiesel through it after cleaning up what could be easily reached. Then I'd button it back up and put in 3 quarts of cheapo oil and a quart of diesel or biodiesel and run the engine for a short time. Rinse and repeat. That is if the owner thinks it's worthwhile to fix the turbo, lifters and cam(?).

Pull the rod bearings to check.
Looks like some incompatible additive might have been used.

I have indicated to the owner that I would prefer to just replace the engine. But, if the engine is going to be replaced with a salvage one, it will most likely need a camshaft, the BW turbo will be questionable (most salvage engines don't come with a turbo anyway).

This engine is going to need a turbo, camshaft kit, and whatever else. I would not trust just cleaning the exterior mess without disassembling it to check crank journals and cylinder walls. This stuff is pumped into every oil passage, piston squirter, etc... That is a lot of time and effort only to find that oil starvation has damaged it anyway. At 187K his clutch/flywheel are probably nearing the end of service life. It could get very costly. The upside of replacing it is the owner gets an engine that has not seen any trauma and that the old engine would be a core, rebuildable, and a proper facility could deal with it. I don't know how would I dispose of the mess of the clean up.

Either way it is going to cost a lot to make things right.

Does the owner have any insight at all to what caused this?

nope.

JETaah said:

I have indicated to the owner that I would prefer to just replace the engine. But, if the engine is going to be replaced with a salvage one, it will most likely need a camshaft, the BW turbo will be questionable (most salvage engines don't come with a turbo anyway).

This engine is going to need a turbo, camshaft kit, and whatever else. I would not trust just cleaning the exterior mess without disassembling it to check crank journals and cylinder walls. This stuff is pumped into every oil passage, piston squirter, etc... That is a lot of time and effort only to find that oil starvation has damaged it anyway. At 187K his clutch/flywheel are probably nearing the end of service life. It could get very costly. The upside of replacing it with an engine that has not seen any trauma is that the old engine would be a core, rebuildable, and a proper facility could deal with it.

How would I dispose of the mess?

Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan. Give the owner a price for inspection and for an engine etc. and let them make the decision.

What to do with the old stuff? Put it in with your used oil for recycling.

My used oil stash gets taken to a shop in town that uses it as heating fuel. I could not do that to them. I suppose there is elsewhere.

Just thinking....
When an oil filter gets clogged, does the system bypass it to survive? Or does the pump dump it back into the pan?
It is hard to imagine that this stuff would make it through the filter element. On the other hand, the substance is on both sides of the filter.

As I understand it the springy bit in the top of the canister lid is the bypass. It must have one...

I'm the owner of the car. I bought it back in October 2015 in Dallas and drove it to Detroit. Had no serious issues with it until i started losing power around this past November or December. I haven't missed a scheduled oil change and had the dealer perform the oil change every time with the exception of 2 or maybe 3 times max. If i remember correctly, it had about 150,000 miles on it when i bought it. I'll check my history on this website after i post this, i believe i posted it here back then.

Dealer oil changes probably sped up the lifter demise...unless specified otherwise, they put in 5W30 oil (official VW directive). But, most BRM cars with original cam/lifters that I see are not far behind this level of cam wear at this mileage even when using 5W40.

ronlove said:

I'm the owner of the car. I bought it back in October 2015 in Dallas and drove it to Detroit. Had no serious issues with it until i started losing power around this past November or December. I haven't missed a scheduled oil change and had the dealer perform the oil change every time with the exception of 2 or maybe 3 times max. If i remember correctly, it had about 150,000 miles on it when i bought it. I'll check my history on this website after i post this, i believe i posted it here back then.

Click to expand...

Is there any possibility of contamination of some kind? I’m thinking intentional as in kids playing around or some kind of stupid joke? Or someone just put the wrong fluid in the wrong hole?

Yeah, I think yanking the engine and replacing it(or just getting rid of the car) makes the most sense. You could spend lots of time & money just to find out the head is warped, and bearings are worn out. Plus who knows what else. That slop couldn't have been lubricating well.

To me it looks like pure Liqui Moly MoS2 additive which is proven to be snake oil and do absolutely nothing

Tdijarhead said:

Is there any possibility of contamination of some kind? I’m thinking intentional as in kids playing around or some kind of stupid joke? Or someone just put the wrong fluid in the wrong hole?

Click to expand...

No, I can’t see that happening.

Feel free to get it analysed, but having seen this too many times before on gassers, this is poor quality oil, far-too-extended drain intervals, or likely both.

Doesn't even need to be during the present owners tenure.

I wouldn't bother putting any money into this engine - If you flush out that sludge, there is a good chance you will find that the bearing clearances are excessive and you will have a new cam and turbo on a knocking engine.

Replace the engine or get it entirely rebuilt (or checked with new bearings and piston rings).

Looks to me like maybe some really bad coolant contamination. I've seen WVO carnage, and that stuff is black and sticky, not gray and slimy.

Since we don't know if the oil filter was like that at last service or not, tough to say if this suddenly happened or not. I'd think even a low level lube jockey at a dealer would flag that as something wrong, and have an actual real tech take a look at it. They'd want to cover their butt if the engine suddenly tooefed itself right after leaving their shop.

It would be interesting to see a UOA on that stuff.

Yeah, that is why I'm in favor of replacement over taking this any further really.
If oil was bypassing the filter, then there was not much chance that the cam/lifter wear debris was filtered out before it went to all the critical areas.

I think that we will do an oil analysis for the sake of knowing what this is.

To me it looks like a EGR internal coolant leak where the coolant gets passed through the EGR into the intake and passed into the crank case via flowing down the cylinder walls after combustion. In this situation not only are the bearings likely shot but the cylinder walls and the rings as well. Dried coolant is a poor lubricant.
Ron, I am curious as to whether or not you were losing coolant? Did you ever top it up in the past few months? Is it low now? What is the condition of the cooling system outside the engine itself?

VLS_GUY said:

To me it looks like a EGR internal coolant leak where the coolant gets passed through the EGR into the intake and passed into the crank case via flowing down the cylinder walls after combustion. In this situation not only are the bearings likely shot but the cylinder walls and the rings as well. Dried coolant is a poor lubricant.
Ron, I am curious as to whether or not you were losing coolant? Did you ever top it up in the past few months? Is it low now? What is the condition of the cooling system outside the engine itself?

Click to expand...

I haven't had to put coolant in it. I don't have the car right now. Marty can answer if it's low.

The coolant is a little above the full line and the reservoir is clean as a whistle.

That does not mean that coolant wasn't dumped into the valve cover oil filler by accident or, dare I say, on purpose to piss off the shop owner by a disgruntled employee.

UOA kit is on the way from Blackstone Labs.

I spoke with Luke at Blackstone Labs in an effort to see what is available in the testing.
He said they can detect the things that they have tests for, i.e. wear metals, coolant contamination, soot, water, etc...

But if it does not fall into one of those categories it then it could be inconclusive.
In other words, if the substance winds up being cake flour, Jello powder or the like then they will not be able to identify it as such.

Guy, I came across this article regarding Mercedes Benz's diesel Bluetec engine. But the writer, also,makes some statements that seem to apply to diesel engines across the board. Some of the things he described sounds like what happened to my engine. Just wondering if any of you came across this article and what were your thoughts?

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

Maybe I should start a new thread for this?