Car died on road! No start, no crank, no codes!

Ok.
First I want to thank everyone on here for all the great info and detailed info.
We just bought a 2005 Passat Wagon auto 115k on the clock maybe a month ago. Obviously BHW engine.
Car looks nice, drove nice but...
turned out whoever had it before me was a REAL hacker. Lots of crazy broken, Mickey Mouse crap. Anyways, car had that crazy chain sound so I did my homework and knew I better fix it. So I went and did the BSD.
Without this forum that was never going to happen. Took my time, came out great, got timing down perfect. Car started and ran perfect. Sooo much quieter.
Last Friday we took off and did a 400 mile road trip into the mts. Car ran great and got appr 40+ mpg, loaded up with junk.
Anyways, got home yesterday, took the car couple miles down to the store and it was acting odd, shuddering as it tried to shift, especially at 1400-1500 rpms. If I got on it a little, it smoothed out, but something was not right. Headed home thinking I would check it all out, until half way back after coming up a big hill the car just died doing 65 mph, no warning!
Cruised to side of road, stopped. Tried restarting and NOTHING! No crank, no click. Had my wife come and bring the laptop to run VCDS and NO CODES!
Now I'm like (add lots of colorful language)! Isn't this the crap people complain about VWs?!?
SO... had it towed home with AAA for free 'cause I pay them $$$ every year for times like this.
Tonight I am going to test a bunch of logical stuff.
Here is some info on what I know:
1) NEW coolant reservoir has a crack and DEFINITELY leaked onto the plugs below it. You know what I am talking about for important elec. stuff, like Crank sensor wires, etc.
Obviously this is the first point to follow. Can't believe it is leaking. It is brand friggin new with a new cap. Anyways... I bought the special adapter to pressure test the system so I will get a new tank and rent the tool to recheck it. I will follow wires and check for power, etc.
2) Last week, new fuel filter, new battery, as stated new coolant reservoir, new cam position sensor as the jerk before me had bent one of the tabs on the cam sprocket.
3) glow plug ind. comes on and goes out so fuel pump is getting power. I hear it run when I turn the key as well. I will pull line and check for good pressure.
4) All dash lights come on and go out as normal.
5) Pulled egr this morning and man is it gunked up solid. Will clean out and vacuum intake where it mounts. Did this just because I figured it needed it anyways.
6) pulled timing cover and everything looks normal. Can't believe anything can be wrong there as there was no mechanical noise or codes. But...I will recheck to be sure. ***IS IT OK TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER BY HAND USING THE CAM SHAFT BOLT?*** When doing the timing, it was quite firm just tweaking the cam with the three bolts loose. Seems like it would be really hard to turn everything over from there.
BTW all this went down with temps in the 100-105F range, between that and the coolant leak it makes me think Crank sensor or wires to it got wet and fried. Read somewhere that they don't like the heat anyways. But no codes!?!
Looking for some checks on those #1 and #2 pins.
Sorry for the long rant.
This is the first time I have posted on or about anything, ever on the internet.
We love this car.
Granted it is a new learning curve for me. I really don't want to disappoint the wife and tell her that we got ourselves in too deep with this German contraption but, as it just left me on the side of the road out of nowhere in 105 degree temps AND the damn thing is not showing any codes, I need some help on this one.
The nice thing is that I have to work on it in the gravel driveway, in the desert, in the summer... wait that isn't that great, is it?
Thanks everyone, without this forum, I would be soooo screwed.

Sorry about the issues and trouble.

First, crank sensor would not cause no crank condition. It sounds like it could be something mechanical. Are you sure the engine did not overheat? Does the starter at least try to crank or there is nothing? Are you sure you installed the TB especially the tensioner correctly? One possibility is that TB may have jumped and you've had P2V contact.

#6 No. Do not turn engine with crank bolt

Hey!
Thanks for jumping in.
Started going thru things tonight after work.
Ran VCDS for the third or fourth time and still get no codes.
You would think something major like TB would throw a code or give some mechanical sound that wasn't pleasant.
Fuel pump runs, pulled line and pumps clear fuel with steady pressure.
Only just pulled TB cover and nothing looks off. I wasn't sure if I could turn it over by hand from the camshaft bolt. When I did the BSD it was real hard to turn the cam shaft bolt just to adjust the timing.
I will look the elec. and starter over tomorrow morn. to see if I can get it to turn over. Worst case I will pull the front end apart again and recheck the timing.
The way it died just seemed electrical like the key had been turned off.
The engine never overheated in the usual sense. When I finally looked at the temp gauge after trying to restart, it was hot like 210-220 but the fan had stopped and it was 105 out and I had just come up a long hill. It never redlined or threw a code. The gauge was definitely working.
I was loosing coolant though. Overflowed onto the connectors below. Not so good.
New reservoir and new cap last week. Looks like the cap is probably garbage. Came from Oreilly's because no one local had one. When I first put it on it seemed cheap and barely made a seal? Old cap is back on.
Thanks for checking in.

Got it. Won't try turning it with the camshaft bolt.
That didn't seem like it would be a good spot to try to turn everything connected below.
Appreciate that.
Looks like tomorrow morning I will check elec and start system and then pull it apart and recheck timing.
All fuses are good. Ecu is working so I assume it is not relay related.

It is tight to get at the front crank bolt to manually turn the engine over unless the lock carrier is pulled loose, but you can use a screwdriver to get at a slot in the bellhousing to carefully use the flywheel teeth to slowly tooth by tooth turn the engine over. That will at least let you determine if the engine is locked up or not.

There really are not many things that would cause the engine to quit running while driving down the road AND cause a no-crank condition after stopping.

You may try and can the TCM to make sure the car think it is indeed in Park. I've seen front torque converter bushings seize and cause the engine to quit turning. Usually they tear up the bushing and seal and cause a massive loss of ATF out of the bellhousing, though.

If you cannot turn the engine over and it is locked up, and it is still full of oil and you never had any oil pressure warning come on, that may be what happened.

Just getting back at it this morning.
First thing, I am rechecking the timing.
Unfortunately it looks like facts are pointing there.
No dash light ever came on.
I can't find any codes doing an auto-scan. How do I search more specifically?
I just got the car a month ago and just bought the VCDS to start going thru everything. I have a lot to learn and looks like...
plenty of stuff to fix.
Thanks guys.

If it looks like there is an issue the TB, it may not make sense for you to try to turn the engine over, as it may cause more damage. I would make sure that TB is tight and cam and crank are synched first.

You may not have any code if the timing belt jumped.

BTW, I just had something similar happen to me last week. My issue was that the tensioner and tensioner stud failed (snapped in half). The car stumbled for second and it quit. I got a new tensioner from a reputable source and I used the correct torque value with a quality torque wrench, so I am a bit stumped.

The loss of coolant and high temp indication could indicate you have a headgasket problem. You were able to turn engine by crankshaft bolt? I'd check your tailpipe to see if any sign of glycol in pipe. you might not have seen steam when it stopped running. You might also see some indication of glycol on glow plugs.

Egr cooler could have also sprung a leak.

Ahhhhh...
Just got the front end apart and the engine is not turnin buy the crank bolt.
Not so awesome.
Didn't get the crank pulley off yet but it appears the TB did slip/jump a tooth or ?? maybe more.
So, still pulling things apart but I think I know who to blame for this one.
When I did the BSD, I DID NOT replace the TB for a couple of reason.
Sad me!
Looking back, all those reasons were not very good reasons.
Car has 115k but bought it with no service records, etc.
Taken care of on the outside but whoever worked on it last was as bad as me, well actually worse.
I wasn't trying to be cheap just reasoned that the belt looked good and someone had definitely been in there hacking on stuff.
Anyways, after the BSD last week, I decided that I would put it back together as is, order a good quality TB kit and do the job next break I got from work.
Now I really regret that idea.
Real sad part is that I wasn't worried about spending money on the car, I ran out of time and didn't plan ahead properly. Stupid.
Thanks for the replies.
Will check back because at least for me it ain't over.

Thundershorts-
Turns out I was loosing coolant from the cap not holding pressure.
Last week put a new tank and cap. Reservoir was from Kerma but the cap was from Oreillys because no one had one local.
I live in a small town next to a bigger small town.
The dealership is 40 min away but the prices are in another income tax bracket from mine so everything pretty much has to come from online. Makes it challenging for last minute stuff.
Outside to see just how deep I am in...looks really deep!

BTW, who is best source for new top end parts?

If verifying your TB job is good and that the engine turns over by hand nicely, check the electrical.

Look for any frayed wire leading to the starter and make sure the ground wire is intact. The ground wire can look fine on the outside, but can get corroded inside the terminals.

Double check fuses. I think there is a fuse 14 that can make a no start situation. Also check out the relay 219, which some here reported a complete random shut down while on the road.


As sourcing new parts, you can get them all over the place. But the most important is getting familiar with aftermarket brands to stay away from.


.

Well, not looking so great.
TB is in one piece and doesn't appear damaged in any way. Cam will turn a little back and forth.
Crank won't turn. Locked up.
The timing is sitting right now very close to TDC on both the cam and crank.
Any thoughts on what that might indicate?
Thanks for people checking in.
It should be apparent that I am not a master mechanic, nor a brain surgeon.
Could have planned this better.

oilhammer said:

It is tight to get at the front crank bolt to manually turn the engine over unless the lock carrier is pulled loose, but you can use a screwdriver to get at a slot in the bellhousing to carefully use the flywheel teeth to slowly tooth by tooth turn the engine over. That will at least let you determine if the engine is locked up or not.
There really are not many things that would cause the engine to quit running while driving down the road AND cause a no-crank condition after stopping.
You may try and can the TCM to make sure the car think it is indeed in Park. I've seen front torque converter bushings seize and cause the engine to quit turning. Usually they tear up the bushing and seal and cause a massive loss of ATF out of the bellhousing, though.
If you cannot turn the engine over and it is locked up, and it is still full of oil and you never had any oil pressure warning come on, that may be what happened.

Click to expand...

this ^^^^

Thanks Oilhammer.
I am a bit slower than most guys.
I am still learning how to use VCDS.
Any quick tips on checking the tranny with VCDS?
I have been reading all about this car for weeks but haven't got into the tranny due to lack of time.
As I mentioned before, the car had started to shudder slightly at 1400-1500 rpms as it went to shift up. Really only indication that something wasn't right. I was headed home to look into it and then I was dead on road.
Thanks

A scan tool at this point is not likely to help you in any way. If you are 100% certain that the crankshaft is stuck in its present spot, and you are 100% certain the engine never ran out of oil pressure, then you are going to be looking at some major mechanical work.

The last one of these that I had that did this I had to remove the engine and transmission together, unbolt the transmission from the engine, and pry back and forth on the bellhousing carefully to force the converter out of the pump. Then, once it was free and hanging on the drive plate, I was able to turn the engine around normally and remove the bolts.

We installed a reman transmission from Volkswagen and the car was back on the road. Obviously a lot more work than just a trans R&R, but this is the type of thing you run into when an engine is locked up (true of any car).

Have you looked under the car at the bottom of the bellhousing for any signs of ATF? It will be a blackish-brown color if it is used ATF, and a honey color if it is newish. These do not have "red" ATF like some cars do. Or at least they shouldn't.

Update for those possibly interested in the saga of the stupid.
BTW, living up to my Fumble Mechanic name on this one it may appear!
Cam looks good. No crazy looking stuff.
Some bum has been in here before and reused the valve cover gasket.
The head looks to have been machined.
All black lifters look new.
Nothing wacky or obvious.
As I said, can't turn crank shaft but timing is basicall at TDC the cam pin goes in with a tiny tweaking of the cam.
The crank lock tool from metalnerd just quite doesn't thread the bolts to lock it in. Needs to be tweaked maybe a degree but the crank won't budge.
All this points to good/ damn close to good timing.
Oilhammer has me in the right direction chasing the tranny with a TC bushing seizure.
Boy am I excited to get into that!
Thanks again people.
I am not experienced enough not to second guess everything and anything.
I appreciate the help!

Thanks Oilhammer.
That doesn't sound pretty.
Better me than somebody else, right?
Going under the car as we speak.

No ATF leaking anywhere.
Guess I will drop the pan.
Would imagine I should find some crap in there.

You may find something in the transmission pan, but you may not. I don't think that would be definitive either way, unless there happened to be some huge chunk of the internals busted off (doubtful).

Just a few thoughts before removing the transmission.
1. Pull the glow plugs and try turn the crank pulley. Just a long shot that it may be hydrolocked.
2. I have seen where the crank pulley (and also the cam pulley) bolt was not torqued down properly and worked its way loose after a short while. The pulley spun on the crank/camshaft and allowed the valves to hit pistons. Pull the cam and crank pulleys to inspect.
3. If 2 is OK pull the cam and make sure all the valve stems are equal in height. If not that would indicate bent valves.
4. If 2 and 3 are OK, try turning by hand. With the cam and GP's out it should turn easily. If it still will not turn, then start looking on the back end.

OK.
Pulling glow plugs to inspect and try turning the crank.
As I stated timing appears damn close to right on, no noticeable belt damage.
Tranny is definitely looking suspicious, but no leaking or burnt smells.
That's why I was going to drop the pan just to look for something smelling off and check the filter.
Only had the car a month so haven't messed with tranny but now she looks like she wants my attention.

Would it be worth the trouble to pull the engine oil pan to look for anything out of whack in there. I haven't had a pan off of a Passat but I have heard that you have to lower the subframe or some such. From what I have read here, it's likely either the engine or transmission and to verify the transmission requires complete removal, so it seems to me it MAY be worth it to spend the time and drop the pan to be sure it's nothing in the engine before going after the trans.

I would expect to see fairly massive ATF fluid leak, if it was the transmission/TC issue that caused this.

I would check the basic stuff first, as others have suggested. From troubleshooting point of view, I would think most likely case is something that was touched in the course of your recent work.

Pulled glow plugs.
No. four to the firewall not looking so good. Build up is not looking like carbon, more like corrosion from coolant. No way to know if this is old or new problem as I just got the car. Would not be surprised if moron before me actually reinstalled them like that. As I said head looks machined.
Crank still doesn't turn but didn't pull cam off yet.
More than one issue appearing in this drama.
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So more background info on the car from my "working" on things if we can call it that.
Whoever had the car before me, had some major crap going on.
First off, cam might have been replaced. Lifters look new.
Head looks machined.

The water pump had been out and put back in with gasket sealant.

Best of all the oil pan has a couple of wacks in it from the INSIDE.
Scary because the dude who worked on it before cut some corners putting it back together.
How about front crank seal case having a little chunk out of it where he pried on it to get the old seal out?
I know, I know, if I only knew then what I know now.

Anyone have an oil pan to sell?
Looks like I am pulling mine again anyways and I aint putting the old one back in. If I had known before doing the BSD I would have ordered another one.

Yep.
Camshaft hub looked like it had been pried on and they slightly bent a tap. Didn't see that until I replaced the cam sensor.

Inner timing belt cover was all screwed up so I replaced that doing the BSD.

Is this sounding good yet?

Biggest problem here is that I have never gotten in so deep with repair crap before.
With the BSD I really did a lot of homework and went slow and rechecked everything. Worst choice was not changing out the belt last week at that time. So its possible I messed something up but I don't think so. Seems like tranny is most likely the case as Oilhammer pointed out.
What's the opinion on that glow plug?
Obviously something not good with that cylinder.
I will drop the subframe and look in the pan.
Nothing to loose at this point.
Anyone know a guru in Vegas/ Salt Lake area?
I will be needing some help for sure.

Post some pics of the pan. They look kinda funky inside. The first time I pulled BHW pan I thought the exact same thing, but turned out it was normal. Frankly if it is not cracked, not leaking oil, not interfering with the crank and fits square to the block, I would put my money elsewhere. You are going to need it....

Got ya.
This pan definitely has been abused.
I am obviously not a mechanic but even I was like ????
I will post more pics.
Definitely dropping pan as this is becoming a real lesson in how to and how not to!
So far it doesn't seem like I have done anything to create this situation. Either pre-existing or waiting to happen to me so I could learn something new at a great expense. What a lucky dude!

Yes experience takes time or money. Usually lots of both, LOL.