dpf cleaning...

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steve05ram360

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I pinged these guys to find out how much to clean the dpf on the tdi's... $375 bux. not bad. wonder how many times you could get away with cleaning it before a replacement is needed. They did say they have to cut it open so I'd guess not to many.

http://www.fsxinc.com/
 
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jahlov420

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2010 sportwagen MANUAL! DPF-Delete @ stage 2
375 bucks isn't bad i think. but i have a friend that has a ram truck like yourself (09 i think and he has about 170k on it and never had a dpf problem. i think so long as you actually drive your car the dpf should be alright.
 
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steve05ram360

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An 09 with that many miles is encouraging, and a ton of hiway miles no doubt. He kust be hauling with it often then? There is a guy on cumminsforum that uses his '07 for business (roadmedic or road medic) with close to 900,000 miles. All stock, a 5.9L motor though so no dpf.
 
specsalot

specsalot

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If you look closer at fsxinc's business you will see:
FSX manufactures and distributes diesel particulate filter cleaning equipment used in the trucking, transit, off-road, railroad and power generation.
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The DPF on the Mk6 fuel system is probably not built to the same scale or operating on even the same chemistry as the industrial DPF's reference in the above.
It would be important to verify with any business (corporate owned [ie FSX.Inc] or third party [who utilizes FSX.Inc supplied equipment]) whether they can actually service the Mk6 DPF. I suspect that most DPF's do not have an oxidation catalyst section. This section probably makes these units unserviceable by traditional cleaning methods.
 
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rtking

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Having personally cut apart at DPF, I can say that it would be very unlikely they can service the DPF on a Mk6 TDI. As others have stated, the NOX catalyst is in the way to clean from the top and there's no way around that unless you cut that out as well. And once you've opened the casing around the DPF, the asbestos matting that holds the DPF honeycomb in place will come apart and likely won't be reusable. Unless they can replace that matting (which will require some good amount of force on the honeycomb itself to compress and seal against the case walls) the honeycomb will rattle and disintegrate inside the DPF casing.
 
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Kenn JSW

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steve05ram360

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rtking said:
Having personally cut apart at DPF, I can say that it would be very unlikely they can service the DPF on a Mk6 TDI. As others have stated, the NOX catalyst is in the way to clean from the top and there's no way around that unless you cut that out as well. And once you've opened the casing around the DPF, the asbestos matting that holds the DPF honeycomb in place will come apart and likely won't be reusable. Unless they can replace that matting (which will require some good amount of force on the honeycomb itself to compress and seal against the case walls) the honeycomb will rattle and disintegrate inside the DPF casing.
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Yeah it is hard to say what the guy who replied really knows... he did say that they have to cut it open to clean it. At the rate I'm piling up miles I'd say (if 120k is the estimated mileage for dpf service) I have about 2 years before I am there. bought the golf in march with 27k (or 29k, I forget which) and I now sit at 43k...

Kenn JSW said:
This page shows a Jetta TDI filter, and there's one other VW filter as well:
http://fsxinc.com/Clean/dpf/dpfTypes.html
I wouldn't think it would be there by mistake.

The cleaning procedure doesn't seem to mention cutting filters open:
http://fsxinc.com/Clean/dpf/fltclnprgm.html
However, the TDI dpf is different, as mentioned above, so maybe they remove the catalyst section before cleaning.
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They did mention they had to cut open the filter to clean it.

I will respond to the email with the concerns raised above and see what they say...
 
specsalot

specsalot

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Kenn JSW said:
This page shows a Jetta TDI filter, and there's one other VW filter as well:
http://fsxinc.com/Clean/dpf/dpfTypes.html
I wouldn't think it would be there by mistake.

The cleaning procedure doesn't seem to mention cutting filters open:
http://fsxinc.com/Clean/dpf/fltclnprgm.html
However, the TDI dpf is different, as mentioned above, so maybe they remove the catalyst section before cleaning.
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I stand corrected. Its hard for me to understand how debris can be blown back through the DPF can exit out the filter inlet when the oxidation catalyst sits on top of the DPF section. Perhaps they are removing the debris through the DP sensor port. It would be nice to hear a positive report from someone who's been through a cleaning experience. Somehow I think it will be a long wait on a positive experience.
 
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steve05ram360

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Update... heard back from them today. I passed on this thread so he could read the conversation... Hope he doesn't mind the quote... too much info to water down at the end of the day.

He is correct, you don’t want to cut the can off the DPF neither do you have to. We have been cutting only the outlet end of the VW TDI DPF off and cleaning these from one side – my mistake. Our machines use high CFM and high pressure air nozzles to clean the filter. Access to both ends of the DPF is ideal but not absolute. The nozzle that cleans the inlet side is the agitator. It breaks up the hardened ash plugs that accumulate slowly over time. The outlet air nozzle blows the material out the inlet.

Note: Ash is unburnable metals and mineral compounds from the breakdown of lubricants and engine wear. This material remains in the filter and once it builds up enough inside the DPF it causes more frequent soot regenerations because the filter has less room to inventory soot. Soot of course is the black unburned fuel and oil particulate that is oxidized into gases and passes through the micro pores of the DPF during a regeneration. So, when you notice shortened regeneration intervals it is time to get your DPF serviced because the excess regenerations will shorten the life of the DPF and harden the ash plugs even more.

The TDI’s are problematic to cut open at best but we have done it successfully with good feedback from our customers. However, it is time consuming and expensive so we are going to take another approach to cleaning these DPF’s without cutting them open – just had a meeting today. We have a wet wash cleaning system that has been proven on thousands of heavy duty DPFs and approved by some large OEM’s. We will be making some slight modifications to the wet wash system so that TDI filter assemblies can be cleaned without cutting and welding. This process will only cost $250 versus $375.

For those that were questioning cleaning through a catalyst, it can be done. These catalyst are made of very small holes that go straight through to the DPF. The material exits the catalyst quite well.

Note: The catalyst’s purpose is a chemical reaction that causes the soot to become unstable so it burns or oxidizes at a lower temperature during the regeneration. Hino, Mitsubishi and some off-road equipment have a similar combined catalyst/DPF assemblies. We clean these frequently with a high level of success.


Unfortunately, the VW engineers did not design these after-treatment devices to be serviced. They designed them to be replaced. However we have successfully cleaned them and I am not aware of any other company in North America that has successfully figured out a way to clean these. We have cleaned over 30,000 DPF’s of all kinds to date. We also manufacture and sell DPF cleaning equipment to diesel truck and engine dealer all over the world.
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specsalot

specsalot

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Interesting Reply - The price they quote (I assume) is just for cleaning a walk in unit. The labor to R/R is probably fairly prohibitive unless the owner is a DIY.
 
7

740GLE

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or how much is a Downpipe and never have to clean it again?
 
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steve05ram360

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About $1450 (quick check) plus whatever it costs to get the back end done from the midpipe to the rear bumper... $579 downpipe, $279 (min) mid pipe, $599? Software...
 
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ihatespeed

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dpf cleaning is accomplished by vacuuming/ blowing air through backwards after a multi hour bake in a hot oven 800 degrees or so if I recall correctly. in theory if you have an electric oven with a self clean cycle, a shop vac and an air compressor, you should be able to do this yourself. be sure to let the dpf cool slowly (overnight as to not thermally shock it. seriously watch a video of the commercial machine in action..
 
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ihatespeed

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740GLE said:
or how much is a Downpipe and never have to clean it again?
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my full exhaust, tune, and installation cost 2500 total. (Normally I do my own wrenching, but it was winter and ~500 bucks sounded way better than sending the ecu in for a week and installing the pipe with no lift in the snow) I do save approximately 10% fuel, so maybe a penny a mile driven, fuel savings alone probably pay for most of it in the life of the car.

more power, more fun to drive, and sounds cooler, if that's your thing.

Just like brakes, exhaust components are a wear item, they are not going to last forever, whether you stay stock or aftermarket you will be replacing stuff eventually.

by the way I'm considering parting with my stock components, they have 32000 miles on them and are in good shape, make me an offer
 
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Shaft

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Wow, I'm so for the cleaning procedure. Looks like they know what they're doing.

They definitely have my business when needed.
 
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Shaft

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I'm curious if all the service installations will get the how to's on getting this done, or only this contact that you've been enquiring with.
 
360gtracer

360gtracer

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ihatespeed said:
Just like brakes, exhaust components are a wear item, they are not going to last forever, whether you stay stock or aftermarket you will be replacing stuff eventually.
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I am *NOT* arguing the point here, but just want to add another perspective - my old '04 Jetta TDI has over 210K miles (212? 215?) still with factory original exhaust. That said, I do understand that the JSW exhaust system is a bit more complex....

The other thought I had was to replace the DPF when necessary and keep the old one. Have it cleaned, and then swap it back in when the time comes up again. But as I think about it, this may not make sense from a $$/longevity perspective, just an idea....

Thanks.
 
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