Should this be covered by warranty?

My car recently died on the road and was towed to Reeves VW in Tampa. I quote as follows from the invoice:
"Cranks won't start
Cranks but wont start please check and advise
found vehicle was timed incorrectly and timing belt had excessive loosness causing engine to jump time. removed and replaced splash shields and engine cover, Bypass intake hose and timing belt cover. set cam in position according to vesis to rotate engine to top dead center. set injection pump to mark with pin. set t-belt and adjusted to specs. started engine and tes drove then readjusted dynamic timing to 60-120 with specs ok."

this ended up costing me 4 hours worth of labor plus the towing. the techs at reeves said that they checked and it couldn't be covered by warranty. Is this true? i've always had the vehicle maintained according to the manual. it seems that things like this shouldn't happen. Thanks for any input!


darin

Under 60 K miles. It should be warranty.

What is the milage on the car?
Has the Timing belt been serviced/replaced?
Have you performed the 10K Maintenence regularly?

If you want my bet, it was not this, but relay 109. Is your car a 1999.5 or early 2000? Did you ever have the relay checked?

Give more details of how it died on the road as well.

If it was relay 109, complain to nhtsa!

Yes could have been relay 109!

Sounds like the same thing that just happened to Pugs!

It should be covered under the basic bumper-to-bumper warranty, but not under the powertrain warranty since the problem wasn't with "internal" engine parts.

-mickey

It has 53,000 miles on it and is a 1999.5. i've done all the maintenence as required in the manual. I had the belts all changed at 39,000 miles. The car was being driven by my brother at the time, he said he was traveling along at 30mph in 3 gear when the car just shut off. he pulled to the side of the road and it wouldn't start. what is the 109 relay?

darin

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stinky-D:
what is the 109 relay?

darin<hr></blockquote>

Relay 109 - Main Power Supply Relay

well,
here's a new twist to this story. I left florida last thrusday and headed north back to connecticut. about 700 miles after having the car 'repaired' the engine started rattling and strongly vibrating. i pulled over and had the car towed to Maxwell VW in Burlington NC. they informed me that a valve had fallen off into the #2 cylinder, thus necessitating the need for a new engine (covered by the warranty). They suspect that the timing belt was installed a little bit off, and slowly caused pieces in the engine to start flaking. they discovered lots of metal filings around the timing belt. So now i've got to return to NC in a week and pick up my vehicle. hopefully i will be reimbursed by reeves for the original 350 dollars i spent having the car 'fixed.' I also had to rent a car to get back to CT, and will have to pay for a plane or train back down to NC. does anyone know if i can get money back for that? or am i SOL as i suspect?

thanks
darin

I would (if I had) bet a million dollars, that the reason the car died while going down the road at 30mph was relay 109. A problem on 1999.5's for certain. The timing problems sound real as well, but I bet are not connected to the fact that your car died. Just that the dealer used the computer to check things out, and in the process found the timing error. And subsequent valve failure from either his adjustment being done wrong or as they claim.

Make certain that part of your negotiations you get that relay changed. Takes them 5 minutes and costs a $20 part. Refuse to drive that car until they do, you don't want to drop dead again on the highway on the way home. I recommend a complaint to NHTSA too.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kasha:
I would (if I had) bet a million dollars, that the reason the car died while going down the road at 30mph was relay 109. A problem on 1999.5's for certain. The timing problems sound real as well, but I bet are not connected to the fact that your car died. Just that the dealer used the computer to check things out, and in the process found the timing error. And subsequent valve failure from either his adjustment being done wrong or as they claim.

Make certain that part of your negotiations you get that relay changed. Takes them 5 minutes and costs a $20 part. Refuse to drive that car until they do, you don't want to drop dead again on the highway on the way home. I recommend a complaint to NHTSA too.<hr></blockquote>

I agree with the above. If it jumps 1 tooth either way you get interference. Damage was done whenever it jumped time, which was almost certainly sometime prior to the car dying the first time. Definately 109.

Just don't be a jerk and tell them to replace 109 when you pick it up; give them some notice.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> I had the belts all changed at 39,000 miles. <hr></blockquote>

If the work was done by a dealer, the parts should be under warranty. Complain to VWoA! They hosed you out of $350, then blew up your engine! What's next? Thumbscrews? The rack? Maybe they'll just do a driveby on your house in the middle of the night.

-mickey

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> I had the belts all changed at 39,000 miles. <hr></blockquote>

Did that include the timing belt? Is this an automatic?

If they infact did replace the timing belt at 39K, did they also replace the tensioner?

Sounds to me that either 1> the tensioner was not replaced and the belt slipped at 53k and damaged the internals. The guys in Tampa didn't spot the valve damage and it failed inroute home. OR 2> the tensioner was not replaced and the belt slipped twice, the second time enough to break a valve.

The original $350? 4 x $90/hour? or were there parts in this number? Anyway I don't think you can get this back, (unless a tensioner was on the parts list).

Is there any attorney among us who will take on a relay 109 Class action?? VW must realize that they have A SERIOUS Problem Here...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mickey:


If the work was done by a dealer, the parts should be under warranty. Complain to VWoA! They hosed you out of $350, then blew up your engine! <hr></blockquote>

It doesn't look like he got a timing belt changed when he first took it in after it died, and parts are covered for 12,000 miles. (I found this out with a TB failure at 15K after belt change.)Rat bastards. Unfortunately, complaining to them is a waste of your time. Lucky you got an engine replacement out of them though!

sorry about the delays between my posts, but too much work!

anyway, i flew down to NC yesterday and picked up my car. Maxwell VW is a wonderful dealer, i highly recommend them, they actually treated me like a valued customer, something the other dealers have failed to do. They discovered the reason the engine ate itself to pieces and caused the car to die the first time was a screw. thats right a screw. The said when the tampa people changed my belts they used a screw to hold the injection pump (as opposed to the clamp i think). But they failed to remove this screw after finishing the timing belt change and replaced the engine cover. This caused the car to jump timing, thus my hard starts i occasionally experienced over the past few months. the screw eventually got eaten by the engine somehow (they showed me what was left of it, very bent up and sheared in two. so do you all suppose i have a chance at getting at least the 350 dollars back? i've spent about 300 more dollars on travel to and from NC because of this problem. a new engine's not bad though...i guess i could eat this, but it makes me angry to think that these people (reeves VW in Tampa) could get away with something like this. i will be talking with them on monday and will keep you all posted. thanks for the info and support.

darin

I think it's time to SCREW them like they SCREWED your car.

I would certainly contact VWOA about it... I know we had a member going to (or back) from the FEST that lost a Turbo and VW paid for the Rental and everything...

All they can say is, "NO"...

Gary M

I'd inform Reeves nicely that they need to "make things right" or you're going to file a lawsuit. Then, file the suit. They'll probably be happy to pay you after that, and it will only cost you another 20 bucks or so (filing fee).

is filing a lawsuit that simple? i'll have to look into this. i will be contacting them tomorrow. we'll see what happens.

darin

I was on way home from this year's Fest and had a similar engine tb problem. VW roadside assistance paid for a night in St. George, Utah (beautiful place!), towed me to Las Vegas, totally fixed the engine (new head & tb & stuff) and I paid nothing. Absolutely true, VW took great care of me.
You may be able to address this through VW since the second dealer committed to writing the cause was the screw from dealer one. At least, ask.

Alright guys, all these timing belt stories are making me nervous. I love my car and would hate to have a new engine put in it because of a dealer screw-up. I want to try and get at least 300k miles out of this engine. I have had such bad luck with the VW dealers down here in Atlanta, that I have no intention of taking my car back to them(FYI Jim Ellis VW). Does anyone in Atlanta know where you can take your car to have it worked on by a reputable dealer besides the one mentioned above? Since a timing belt on this car is a very sticky repair job, I don't trust it with the above fools.