What's a good cleaner to use on the inlet manifold and EGR valve?

Bhavick

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Hi,

Am going to be cleaning the EGR valve and manifold in a couple of weeks time on my MK4 1.9 TDI and i just wanted to know what the best cleaner is to use?

I know some people use Mr Muscle oven cleaner but i heard that can react with aluminium so am not so sure. I don't have a jet wash either so i was thinking of soaking the parts in a bucket for a couple of hours with what ever cleaner i get and then using some wire brushes to scrape out the remaining gunk.

Thanks
 

Tdijarhead

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After you separate the intake and the egr, I like this method. It takes about 15 minutes and then while the intake cools you can clean the egr with a good can of carb or brake cleaner.

After the intake cools you can likewise clean the outside of the intake and make sure there is nothing left inside the intake.

If you have the two part PD intake you will need to separate the two halves and remove the actuators.

After spending about 4 hours cleaning mine the first time and making the worst mess, I’m sold on this method.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xIijYgvxW0g
 

WildChild80

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Yes, fire method is the best way

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Hawkins2015

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I had a spare one from a parts car. So I was able to let mine soak in some diesel fuel for a week or two.

It really softened everything up, but I know you probably don't want your car down for that long.
 

eddieleephd

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Fire x3 for the intake, you want a brake cable to fray and Chuck up in a drill to clean the Ash out afterwards. I stopped by a bicycle shop and grabbed a cable from the trash, they're free.

Diesel on the EGR it shouldn't be nearly as dirty.

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Bhavick

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Thanks for the help guys, yeah i have seen the fire method before on some youtube videos. Not sure if i would be comfortable doing this method as i haven't got the right equipment to do it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a strong liquid or spray that i can use on the parts and let them soak for a while because i can't afford to have the car off road for more then a couple of hours.

An amazon or eBay product would be even better.
 
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Hawkins2015

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If you only have a few hours, I would suggest looking around and trying to find a spare manifold at a junk yard or something. That way you can spend the time to really get the thing clean. You don't want to get most of it, then send a dislodged piece into the engine holding a valve open. And the manifold definitely needs to be dry before you run it.

Not sure if you have had the intake off before, but it requires you to take the EGR cooler and all of the plumbing off too. If your not familiar with it, just the disassembly and reassembly could take a couple hours alone. At least it did for me.
 

eddieleephd

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If you only have a few hours, I would suggest looking around and trying to find a spare manifold at a junk yard or something. That way you can spend the time to really get the thing clean. You don't want to get most of it, then send a dislodged piece into the engine holding a valve open. And the manifold definitely needs to be dry before you run it.



Not sure if you have had the intake off before, but it requires you to take the EGR cooler and all of the plumbing off too. If your not familiar with it, just the disassembly and reassembly could take a couple hours alone. At least it did for me.
^^^ perfect advice ^^^
I found taking the intake off easiest if you disconnect the passenger side mount and let it down/ forward a little with a jack under the oil pan.
To do this safely you need to disconnect the downpipe from the turbo first so the flex pipe doesn't get damaged.
One of the most important parts of this job if getting the intake torqued properly when putting it back and that's extremely difficult with the firewall as close as it is. Also work the exhaust manifold intertwined it's even more difficult.
It would take me two hours to remove and install the intake. First remove panzer plate, disconnect downpipe, remove charge piping. Then stick jack under oil pan and take weight off mount, disconnect mount making sure the bolts are loose (otherwise jack engine up more), lower engine enough to work (leaving dog bone and trans mounts connected). Now you can remove the EGR cooler and intake manifold. Likely 45 minutes to an hour to get this far so double to get it back together.
After you have it apart you still need to clean the openings in the head to get the carbon out of there and you're going to need a mirror and shop vac. Turn the engine so each cylinder is in its combustion position starting with #1 at TDC then #3,#4,#2 if I remember firing order correctly. The cleaning of the head don't right will take a good while.

Took me 4-6 hours the first time. I eliminated the need soon afterwards. I wish there was a maintenance cleaner one could use periodically to eliminate the issue all together.

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eddieleephd

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Thanks for the help guys, yeah i have seen the fire method before on some youtube videos. Not sure if i would be comfortable doing this method as i haven't got the right equipment to do it.
A cheap propane torch and a metal hanger along with a brake cable from a dumpster.
Hang it in a place that it can't cause a fire to start.
Otherwise find one to buy maybe
http://forums.tdiclub.com/search.php?searchid=19610203

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WildChild80

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I've used aircraft stripper with descent luck

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Mongler98

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do not clean the intake without cleaning the head. your engine can literally be killed by a rouge chunk of this soot stuff falling off do to the higher air velocity from a cleaned intake.
unless its REALLY BAD, and i mean like you cant fit a silver dollar though it, leave it alone if your not willing to do the job 100%.
Walmart sells a long brush for cleaning your dryer duct, its like 2.5 foot long pipe cleaner and it works fantastic at cleaning the manifold with out the stupid fire. if you do fire your intake, say goodby to the EGR.
oven cleaner, long brush, water hose. not difficult.
as for the head, work on each intake port with the cams lobe OFF that valve. plastic picks you can make from melting picnic utensils and some oven cleaner to soak it a mighty vac or rigged up wet vac with a separate chamber for the chemicals and some brake cleaner and a mirror so you can see. plastic pics only, no metal.
do an oil change afterwards just incase some of that oven cleaner or brake cleaner got past the valve and dripped down past the rings.
 

Bhavick

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do not clean the intake without cleaning the head. your engine can literally be killed by a rouge chunk of this soot stuff falling off do to the higher air velocity from a cleaned intake.
unless its REALLY BAD, and i mean like you cant fit a silver dollar though it, leave it alone if your not willing to do the job 100%.
Walmart sells a long brush for cleaning your dryer duct, its like 2.5 foot long pipe cleaner and it works fantastic at cleaning the manifold with out the stupid fire. if you do fire your intake, say goodby to the EGR.
oven cleaner, long brush, water hose. not difficult.
as for the head, work on each intake port with the cams lobe OFF that valve. plastic picks you can make from melting picnic utensils and some oven cleaner to soak it a mighty vac or rigged up wet vac with a separate chamber for the chemicals and some brake cleaner and a mirror so you can see. plastic pics only, no metal.
do an oil change afterwards just incase some of that oven cleaner or brake cleaner got past the valve and dripped down past the rings.

I appreciate your advice but I've read countless threads on other golf forums where people have cleaned there manifolds and I've never heard anyone say that they have damaged there head afterwards because of the extra airflow causing bits to fly in to the head.

Am not sure what some of the other replies are about in regards to removing the EGR and manifold. Am from the UK so maybe my cars a bit different but as far as am aware it's not that difficult to take off according to the video i watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDYhA0i4P1g

Thanks
 

WildChild80

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What mongler was saying is that if you have a descent amount of buildup in the intake and head, cleaning just the intake could blow a big chunk and wedge a valve open that the piston will close and potentially cause chaos...not my car so do as you will...

Mongler you can lead a horse to water but you can't keep them from drowning

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eddieleephd

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Yeah, the buildup in the head port where the manifold attaches is just as thick as in the manifold. If a chunk is loosened and blown off it can be catastrophic.

UK may not have an EGR, as we do in the US, so that part would be null. Actually cleaning the intake would be null in that case. It's the exhaust that's recycled, through the EGR, that sticks to the intake causing it to need cleaning. Attached to the bottom of the EGR valve is the EGR cooler between the turbo And intake. If you don't have one, you don't need to clean it.

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Tdijarhead

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Thanks for the help guys, yeah i have seen the fire method before on some youtube videos. Not sure if i would be comfortable doing this method as i haven't got the right equipment to do it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a strong liquid or spray that i can use on the parts and let them soak for a while because i can't afford to have the car off road for more then a couple of hours.

An amazon or eBay product would be even better.



This is not a 2 hour job especially for a first timer. The quickest way to clean the intake is with a torch. Otherwise it will be a 4 hour time consuming incrediably filthy job, just to clean what alone removal and reinstallation time.


The easiest way is, as has been said get another intake from the junkyard clean it and then put it on with a set of new gaskets. Then you can clean your old one and have it as a spare.


I have a apare for my BEW and for the ALH's.
 

KrashDH

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Washington
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2002 Golf
I just got through with this while I was doing my deletes.

I took it to a local auto machine shop with a sonic parts cleaner. Came out spotless overnight for $25. I could have torched it but this made more sense to me since I have it available.
 

Bhavick

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What mongler was saying is that if you have a descent amount of buildup in the intake and head, cleaning just the intake could blow a big chunk and wedge a valve open that the piston will close and potentially cause chaos...not my car so do as you will...

Mongler you can lead a horse to water but you can't keep them from drowning

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I totally understand what you are both saying and it is a fair point but lets say for example i didn't clean the manifold and the head was gunked up it could end up blowing a chunk in to the valve regardless of if i cleaned the manifold or not but on the other hand the extra airflow would increase the chances of something like that happening.

Pretty crazy to think I've read countless threads on various golf forums from people having cleaned there manifold and not one of them has come back and said any damage has been done to the head months down the line.

My cars coming up to 150K and i can't be the only one out there with a semi high mileage car.

Am in two minds now which is annoying as i really wanted to do this and i don't fancy cleaning the head.
 

BobnOH

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Location
central Ohio
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New Beetle 2003 manual
Well it's happened to a few folks here. Does not seem high mileage, possible it doesn't need cleaned. They're always going to be nasty, but as long as the opening is 20mm or more, engine should run fine.
 

Mongler98

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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
the trick is that no BIG chunks come off, im to lazy to do a search but there are about a dozen people in the last few years that this happened to.
its really easy to get most of it cleaned out. why clean the intake if your not going to clean the head? seems like doing an oil change but only draining half of the oil out! kinda lazy and pointless.
the only reason to clean the intake and the head in the first place was back from the old days of normal sulfur diesel fuel. there are plenty of OLD threads showing intakes that are so bad, you cant even if a quarter in the opening! now that we have low surfer diesel, the build up is minimal, and even for a car who has 500K on the clock with a working EGR, the build up is not enough to actually have a measurable difference in fuel economy and power regain after a cleaning. the only thing that IS gained is fuel economy with the intake runners cleaned so that the swirl is not clogged up. i cleaned mine with the head on and you can not get around the valve to clean that part, you have to remove the head.
there are more threads about muffler deletes and cold air intakes and aftermarket filters than there ever will be of any other topic. Yet people still put them on in ignorance and of a popular thing to do to your car. its very common for everyone to want to clean and fix things on their cars but take it from us that doing this job when there is only a small amount of build up is a complete waste of your time and money. if its really bad, then yes clean it and the head because if its that bad, well its not going to be good if you dont!.

as far as performance, yea if you run higher boost, bigger turbo, more fuel etc... then cleaning the intake is better but your probably going to go to a EGR delete, VVC oil catch can and a PD150 intake or kerma intake.
 

eddieleephd

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I just got through with this while I was doing my deletes.



I took it to a local auto machine shop with a sonic parts cleaner. Came out spotless overnight for $25. I could have torched it but this made more sense to me since I have it available.
I think this is the best option I've read over the years. Get a used one and have it cleaned, spend 20-30 minutes cleaning the head before installing it and get it over in 2 hours....

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Bhavick

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Thanks for all the replies guy, it's been very helpful. How difficult is it to clean the head and is it easy access? Is there a guide on this?

Also what's the best solotuion for sooted up turbo? Mine has an ATD engine and am sure my car is suffering from sticky vanes. Mr Muscle clean, removing the turbo and stripping it down or replacing it with a used one from a scrapyard or eBay?

I was thinking of doing the last option but some of the turbo's don't with a oil return or feedline and these are pretty pricey here in the UK.
 

eddieleephd

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Battle Ground, Wa
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2002 jetta Wagon
Pull the actuator and see what it's actually doing. Is it getting stuck at the wide open because it's worn and gummed up, or is it just starting to become difficult.
With the turbo slightly sticky I have had luck with PB Blaster to loosen it, then run a series of WOT on ramp runs to burn the rest out.

If it's barely getting sticky run some WOT runs and see if that works.

Everything depends on the situation

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Mongler98

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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Like I said, pull cam cover so you can rotate the engine so that the lobe (pointly end) is not pushing on the lifter for that port. Put the cover back on just to keep crap out. Mirror, plastic pics, a shopvac world some sorts with a small hose on the end, some oven cleaner, plastic brushes and some spray cleaner like brake clean. Make the pics from plastic spoons and whatever by melting the ends. Scrape and clean however you can after soaking qith ovencleaner for a few minutes, suck up what's in there with vac. Rinse and repeat until it's good enough.
You wont be able to get around and the corner to the swirl around the valve but it's good enough.
 

KLXD

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It's a PITA filthy job. You're leaning over the engine working with a mirror. Putting the front on ramps helps so you aren't bending over so far.

I've considered using a pressure washer but it'll blow that stuff all over. Might be worth it.

I would't do the manifold without doing the ports. Maybe all the guys you reference got away without doing it. Some guys haven't. Is it worth the risk of being another one who failed?
 

Mongler98

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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
shop vac, no compressed air and no pressure washer, a few blankets and a bit of makeshift table and chairs helps so you can lay down over the engine, i am a big guy and i can fit my head between the firewall and the head enough to see out of the side of my eye. i didnt use a mirror as im HORRIBLE with reverse translational work, its hard enough for me to shave let alone do a job like this lol.
 

eddieleephd

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Lowering the engine with the trans mount and the dog bone mount attached moves the engine forward enough to see much better. You must disconnect the downpipe so the flex pipe doesn't get damaged.

The mirror isn't for working through, it's for inspection of the opening so you don't miss obvious things. Kinda sucks if you can't see in the ports very well while doing the work on the head.

I learned to disconnect the mount and move the engine when doing my first TB job. It was the only way I could get to the bolts and tensioner. And the mount must come out anyhow.

I learned a lot over the years, and one of the most important lessons I learned is not to avoid taking things apart to get better access. I've spent hours being frustrated and getting angry trying to do something, only to finally disconnect something and have it take 5 minutes after I did. Now I start by creating more room and moving, or disconnecting, things that are in the way.
Another really important thing I learned is to find a forum, such as tdiclub, and research everything before starting. I mean everything. Before I knew about forums, I had a Tacoma and changed the spark plugs only to learn later I put the wrong ones in twice. Each set went about 500 miles before misfiring, then I started to research why. I came across TTORA forums and found it to be a wealth of knowledge similar to tdiclub.

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Bhavick

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Thanks guys for all the help i really appreciate it:) One last thing i wanted to ask what is the best way of testing the N75 valve and VNT actuator lever on the turbo, would it be using a handheld vacuum pump to see if it holds vacuum?
 

Tdijarhead

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Handheld vacuum pump is the preferred method, you don’t even have to remove the n75 from the car.
 

eddieleephd

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Handheld vacuum pump is the preferred method, you don’t even have to remove the n75 from the car.
In know I saw the question asked, for dinner reason I don't see it now. Swapping the vacuum lines and valves between the N75 and N18 is generally the check for the valve function.
Other checks are resistance and flow with a vacuum pump. It's an either or switch with one side going to the vacuum pump and the other to the air cleaner. When unplugged it should only have filter air if I remember. One side either way.
Tapatalk is acting weird, after posting this I saw everyone's posts
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Bhavick

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So i would remove the two vacuum lines going to the N75 and then plug in a vacuum pump in to each end and pump them up to see if they hold vacuum or is that the wrong way to do it?

Sorry didn't fully understand the above posters message.
 
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