How much? 2003 w/ 400k

Hi everyone,


I'm considering getting back in the TDI game by buying a 2003 Jetta TDI with 400k miles. It would be a second/fun/project car perhaps for some light mods (chip, injectors?) that I always wanted to do when I had my 2002. I'm having trouble determining what a fair price would be. Here's some details:

• I know the owner. He owned in from new and maintained it well himself. Rotella T6 oil changes every 5000 miles. He's a mechanic.
• The clutch was replaced 50k-ish miles ago.
• I didn't ask, but I'm guessing it's due for it's forth timing belt based on the mileage.
• Car is entirely stock.
• He says the only issues are: needs new tires and new front (or rear) shocks, and the bottom of the front fenders behind the wheels are thoroughly rusted through.

KBB says private party in "good" condition is about $2200 which seems too high for the mileage. Edmunds says $330 which seems quite a bit too low. Craigslist ads, for sale threads here, etc indicate similar Jetta's but with 200-250K going for $2500. At 400k the turbo or injection pump could grenade at any moment. I'd definitely intend on fixing these issues if they arise, but I definitely don't want to overpay.


I want to say $1200 is a fair price for the car, but really don't want to insult the guy.


What do you guys think?


Thanks!

Scott

its worth what you'll pay.. if $1200 is your thinking, then start at $1000.

IMO that mileage, with rotted out fenders (probably rockers there as well), timing belt due, tires (somewhat pricey) and some maintenance.. its $7-800 car

check it out before you offer, check for airbag, check engine light and abs lights etc.. these items most owners ignore, but they do have underlying issues,make sure there is multiple working keys

If you're in MA or CT you probably won't pass inspection without fixing the rust. So plan on fixing that, at some level.

My son is stepping away from his '02 Jetta with 247K on it, rusted fenders but very little rust on the rockers, all mechancal work done, needs a rear axle (alighment is off) and tires. If we were selling I'd take $1,500. So there's a comparison. I'm probably going to fix it up and keep it. It's more valuable to me than it is sold.

I'd offer $1K for the car.

scotthershall said:

[*]I know the owner. He owned in from new and maintained it well himself. Rotella T6 oil changes every 5000 miles. He's a mechanic.

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clearly ignorant of TDI care. oil change is 10K, not 5k and actually there is some data out there that shows that too frequent will cause more wear and tear. Also have you heard of the tale of how the cobblers kids dont have shoes! AKA mechanics are the worst people to buy cars from, doing that work all day long, they dont want to do it to their own car.
assume you dont know the guy and treat it like as if you have every reason to suspect lies and hidden issues. if you dont, you could really get burned. its a safe call.

scotthershall said:

[*]The clutch was replaced 50k-ish miles ago.

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with what? if your going performance, this is going to need to be changed to
a heavy duty clutch for whatever power requirements your going to make.

scotthershall said:

[*]I didn't ask, but I'm guessing it's due for it's forth timing belt based on the mileage.

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yea, just assume that all the fluids and rubber hoses and belts need to be replaced.

scotthershall said:

He says the only issues are: needs new tires and new front (or rear) shocks, and the bottom of the front fenders behind the wheels are thoroughly rusted through.

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so its a heap of ......., rust is no go, even a little.
look these cars are a dime a dozen and not worth much. i would offer him no more than $800, its going to cost you about $500 in tires, service, parts and other junk.
let alone the rust repair and your time to find it all and fix it.
id pass unless you can get it for $750 to 800 MAX
look, you can go buy a low AF mileage Porsche or Lexus for like 2 grand and there will be NOTHING wrong with it and will hold its value.
There is no reason for this to become your problem unless your willing to get one for a good price and do a crap ton of work compared to what you can buy for $1500.

Mongler98 said:

Also have you heard of the tale of how the cobblers kids dont have shoes! AKA mechanics are the worst people to buy cars from, doing that work all day long, they dont want to do it to their own car.

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I have to agree that is pretty common, but it's not always the case.


I would like to see that data about changing the oil prematurely, but without it, I doesn't make any sense to me.

Nero Morg said:

I have to agree that is pretty common, but it's not always the case.
I would like to see that data about changing the oil prematurely, but without it, I doesn't make any sense to me.

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I remember reading around here something about the detergents in the oil. My turbo seems to be letting some oil through so I add every now and then, and more in the winter.. I figure it's best to have some extra wear as opposed to catastrophic engine failure.

Rotella T6 at 5000 mile intervals is a pretty common practice. Lots of mechanics who know TDIs think Rotella's additive package isn't good enough to last the whole 10,000 mile interval.

Most single mass replacement clutches will stand up to a tune, even a tune and nozzles. I have two tdis with stock replacement SMF kits that don't slip with a tune. And as long as the owner has used the right coolant, hoses are rarely a problem on these cars.

It's easy to say that rust is a no-go, but it's pretty common on MKIV cars as they age. And if you go south to find one without it you're typically trading rust for sun and heat/humidity damage. Pick your poison.

Might this car be a money pit? Yes. Could a TDI that has fewer miles and shows better also be a money pit? Of course. As long as the buyer knows he's taking a gamble, then no one will be disappointed. Fact is these cars aren't that easy to find at good prices. And what you can buy a Lexus for is irrelevant, unless you want a Lexus.

Man, I have to say I'm with Edmunds....only about $30 less. 400,000 miles? Think spindle and wheel bearings....and tie rod ends and ball joints...and rear beam bushings....and control arm bushes....and power steering pump....and....and....and...…..

Ya.....$300 or so...maybe a little less. $250 and a warm 6-pack of Old Milwaukee beer.....that has been out in the sun...….

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Rotella T6 at 5000 mile intervals is a pretty common practice. Lots of mechanics who know TDIs think Rotella's additive package isn't good enough to last the whole 10,000 mile interval.

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FWIW, I've been doing 10K changes on Rotella T6 and sent in an oil sample to blackstone and also opted for the TBN test. Came back saying viscosity was higher than expected for the time, but they said I could try 12.5K for the next oil change.

I feel like once these cars, or any car really, passes a certain number on the odometer, like 200k, you can expect certain things get replaced as a course of normal wear. So once something is at 400k, there is a good chance that a lot of items have already been replaced, some of them more than once.

So to that end, it doesn't really do the car justice to use the numeric merits of the odometer as a sole means for evaluation. Judge the car by the sum of its parts. You may find quite often the higher mileage cars have been cared for better, and they are often in better shape than you may think.

I always say, odometers in Volkswagens are just for keeping track of maintenance and for bragging. They in no way really dictate the usable service life of the vehicle. I just did one of my cars' 560k service yesterday. Other than the 20 year old paint which is shot, there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with the car. It is 100% reliable, everything works as it should, and I know I could hop in it right now and drive it across the country worry free.

03TDICommuter, I didn't say the mechanics were right about T6, just that some feel that way. I also think T6 has improved its formulation in recent years.

I'm with oilhammer on this. I hesitated to buy an '02 Golf for my son a few years ago after he totaled his car (also a Golf TDI), because it had 265K on it. 4 and a half years later it has 372K on it and he's currently driving it back to Wisconsin after visiting for a few days. One owner car, maintained by a guru since new. Runs beautifully, and it's been inexpensive to maintain. Mileage is just a number.

500 is my "buy" price

900 running and driving for a manual is decent
mileage is irrelevant.
No matter what, it needs a tbelt, the intake is plugged up and the center two connecting rods are bent.

The real answer to how much it's worth to buy is how much you can sell it for.
Never buy a used beater car for more than you can sell it for. This is really what sets the market. Not how much was put into it, and now how it was treated.
I have to change my mind here. 600 is a bit more realistic. Not the 7to800 I said earlier.

Thanks for the responses everyone! I'm glad to see TDIClub is still alive and well after VW screwed the pooch!


I'm going to mull it over for a few more days, possibly broach the issue with the wife, who will not be in favor. $1000 or less is good to hear since that's much closer to my budget for a third car, which is approximately $0. Really I just want something to tinker with, drive a few days out of the week to provide some variety. Something to help me continue to build my DIY skills. I've been out of the TDI game for a while, but I'm fairly certain I know what I'm getting into.

I definitely will look closer at the car if I decide to move forward. One of my concerns is rust, not on the fenders, since that's common but on the unibody. Since I've been out of the VW scene for a while, how are the A4s holding up regarding this? I seem to remember VW treating the underside pretty well. I'm in southern new england, so salt is used, but not to extent up north or upstate NY. And the current owner drove his pickup when it snowed, so the Jetta wasn't subjected to all the salt.

[486] said:

500 is my "buy" price

900 running and driving for a manual is decent
mileage is irrelevant.
No matter what, it needs a tbelt, the intake is plugged up and the center two connecting rods are bent.

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Like I said, been out of the game for a while... the connecting rods... is that a common thing on high-mileage ALHs? Or a bit of tongue-in-cheek?

$1200 is fair

Also, would like to add, when I bought my first tdi at 320k, I picked it up for $500. Mind you that was with the GL trim, so manual windows no features at all. Also the turbo actuator was sticky so was going into limp mode. I agree with BobOH on the price.

I wouldn't personally take an MKIV with rust for free... purchase price doesn't matter much in the context of long term ownership costs. For $2-3k on the west coast you can find rust free Jetta TDIs with ~150k miles all day long on Craigslist... I'd buy a cheap southwest ticket, and drive one back if you have time.

[486] said:

No matter what, the intake is plugged up and the center two connecting rods are bent.

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If a stock TDI is kept in good repair and driven properly, the intake won't clog with ULSD. And bent rods on stock cars are pretty rare.

casioqv said:

I wouldn't personally take an MKIV with rust for free... purchase price doesn't matter much in the context of long term ownership costs. For $2-3k on the west coast you can find rust free Jetta TDIs with ~150k miles all day long on Craigslist... I'd buy a cheap southwest ticket, and drive one back if you have time.

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The math doesn't work that well. First, West Coast cars are typically more expensive than East Coast cars. What's $3K in CA is $1,500 - $2K here. Second, it's going to cost at least $1K to get it home, between plane ticket, fuel, tolls, and lodging. Third, MKIV cars are pretty good at rust resistance. The fenders and rockers rust, sometimes you'll see a little rust at the trunk lid, and, rarely, some rust in the rear wheel wells (my son's had this). But that's rare. All easily fixed, even professionally, for less than the additional expense of buying a West Coast car. Finally, you may find that a car that looks good in ads, is described as good, even looks OK to a friend who checks it out for you (if you have one that's local to the car) is disappointing when you go to pick it up. And you've already made the trip.

I hate rust. I find it discouraging. But it's going to happen where it snows. I've accepted it as a consequence of living where I prefer to live.

03TDICommuter said:

FWIW, I've been doing 10K changes on Rotella T6 and sent in an oil sample to blackstone and also opted for the TBN test. Came back saying viscosity was higher than expected for the time, but they said I could try 12.5K for the next oil change.

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I have been changing my oil at 10K (or so) miles also.
I have used the Rotella, Mobil1 and 1 or 2 other brands that had the VW spec's listed.
260K miles & no problems

I run my EGRless ALH on 20k intervals. The rest are all 10k.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

If a stock TDI is kept in good repair and driven properly, the intake won't clog with ULSD. And bent rods on stock cars are pretty rare.

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it gets cold up here
EGR will wet stack the intake no matter how you drive it

the frozen CCV condensate that builds up in the intercooler through the months of 10 below will slug 2 and 3 with water when it thaws, if the oil that also naturally builds up in there doesn't

Just an update. I ended up purchasing the car for $1000 a few weeks ago. It runs and drives pretty well but does need some work as it's pretty much untouched beyond timing belts and stuff that's failed over the years. My plan is to do a little bit as time and funds allow, learning as I go, and see how many miles I can get out of it over the next few years. I've taken to calling it "Project 750" in my head as it could be neat to get it to 750k miles... but that might be a stretch.

This fall/winter will be a rebuilding the front suspension, high mileage timing belt kit and all the stuff should replace at this mileage (alternator pulley, oil pump chain/tensioner, etc), then new tires... and drive it and go from there. Probably have the injectors rebuilt at some point in the next year.

Highlights - the intake is gunked but not nearly as bad as it could be. And the cam and lifters look awesome for any mileage let alone over 400k.


Thanks for all the input on this thread! I'm glad to be back!