Dealer changed timing belt incorrectly

Hi everyone. I live in Bristol, TN and would love to know if there’s a specialist near me. This is my first post here and I hope it’s in the right spot and I apologize this may be lengthy. I bought an 03 jetta tdi a couple of weeks ago to keep miles off my truck and gain on my 12mpg I’m getting. It has 133k miles on it and the timing belt had never been changed. I drove it home from where I purchased it and parked it until I could get it changed. I work at an auto shop and my friend there is a very good diesel tech and has done a lot of work to his tdi over the years, but never a tb change. So I decided to go with the dealer thinking it would be done properly and if something went wrong they had to deal with it. When I picked it up I instantly knew something was off when I fired it up. Started fine but was noticeably louder. During the drive home I noticed that it had no power and felt like it had no boost. Got home, opened the hood and started looking for any vacuum lines loose or if the inter cooler pipe was on right. Didn’t find anything. What I did find was that they broke my dipstick tube, they didn’t change the upper roller, and I’m sure the lower, and then I got very pissed when I saw that the valve cover and vacuum pump(I think it is) had 1000% sure not been taken off. I just paid them $900 and I’m sick to my stomach and worried it was a waste. I’ve tried reading everything and seems some people say it’s possibly a tooth off or not timed properly. I took the car back the next morning but it was a Saturday so no manager was there. I really need some help on what to do or what to say when I go speak to them in the morning. And also if there’s maybe any damage done to the car. Again sorry this was long and thanks so much!!

Amathieson7 said:

Hi everyone. I live in Bristol, TN and would love to know if there’s a specialist near me. This is my first post here and I hope it’s in the right spot and I apologize this may be lengthy.

I bought an 03 jetta tdi a couple of weeks ago to keep miles off my truck and gain on my 12mpg I’m getting. It has 133k miles on it and the timing belt had never been changed. I drove it home from where I purchased it and parked it until I could get it changed. I work at an auto shop and my friend there is a very good diesel tech and has done a lot of work to his tdi over the years, but never a tb change. So I decided to go with the dealer thinking it would be done properly and if something went wrong they had to deal with it.

When I picked it up I instantly knew something was off when I fired it up. Started fine but was noticeably louder. During the drive home I noticed that it had no power and felt like it had no boost. Got home, opened the hood and started looking for any vacuum lines loose or if the inter cooler pipe was on right. Didn’t find anything. What I did find was that they broke my dipstick tube, they didn’t change the upper roller, and I’m sure the lower, and then I got very pissed when I saw that the valve cover and vacuum pump(I think it is) had 1000% sure not been taken off.

I just paid them $900 and I’m sick to my stomach and worried it was a waste. I’ve tried reading everything and seems some people say it’s possibly a tooth off or not timed properly.

I took the car back the next morning but it was a Saturday so no manager was there. I really need some help on what to do or what to say when I go speak to them in the morning. And also if there’s maybe any damage done to the car. Again sorry this was long and thanks so much!!

Click to expand...

And that's the trouble with dealers. The tech got rewarded for doing the job fast. They may swear that the job was done correctly and you need to pay for them to "diagnose" the "new" problem that just "suddenly" appeared.

I don't live close to you so I can't recommend a shop but here is a link to a DYI.
https://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/...nt-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-beetle-1998-2003-part-1/

Ask for a list of what was changed and you want the old parts back so you can see what was changed.

Then ask them to put it to TDC with you there so you can check if everything lines up correctly or that it is out of time.

Thanks for the info and quick responses!!

Reputable Shop....

http://appalachiandieselworks.com/ A fair drive from Bristol but probably worth it.

Honestly, I would NEVER go back to them for ANYTHING, Including having them 'prove' they did a good job, because they didn't. You have already proved it. If you go back there, they will charge you for the cost of checking their terrible work.

There is a thread you need to follow that shows how to install a timing belt for an ALH:
http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf

You might get by with less than the whole job, but you won't get away without doing something to fix the dealerships mistakes.

If you need timing belt tools, we loan them. If you need parts, we have them. If you need technical support, we can provide it.

I’d be glad to drive to Asheville to get it fixed properly, but now I’m worried I’m going to hurt the car driving there. What gets me is it starts and drives fine, turbo is whistling like normal, but doesn’t produce any power. It’s just like driving a na car.

I'm at a minimum of 3 hours away. (over an hour west of Middlesboro, KY. I'm sure you know where that is.)

Do you have a place to work on it, preferably inside?

I would have done the job right and for $350 plus parts....

Amathieson7 said:

I’d be glad to drive to Asheville to get it fixed properly, but now I’m worried I’m going to hurt the car driving there. What gets me is it starts and drives fine, turbo is whistling like normal, but doesn’t produce any power. It’s just like driving a na car.

Click to expand...

Here's the sad truth: if they screwed up the timing belt job enough to do damage,
then that damage is already done.
You should check the position of the related parts at TDC to verify one way or another.

They could have simply forgot to put the boost hoses on properly (the reason for running incorrectly), but i'd be worried they didn't even change water pump or tensioner.

Another vote for Appalachian Diesel or AndyBees. A timing belt change at a dealer is considered belt, tensioner, and perhaps large roller. Other rollers and WP are not considered part of the service. Get a good kit from a supplier here and take it to one of those guys to get the work done correctly.

Mark & Pray strikes again.

Old thread, but still applicable:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=212873

It's sad that places feel the need to take shortcuts on timing belt jobs. Doing it correctly isn't difficult, and the consequences of doing it wrong can mean replacing the whole engine.

It's not their car, so they don't care.

I think it would be worth taking it to a guru and just paying to have it done over again. Ask if they can write up a brief statement saying what they found wrong. Take that to the dealer and ask for a refund.

I have found you have to specify exactly what parts you want replaced when requesting a TB job be done. Not just VW either. When the wife's old Santa Fe went in they only quoted for the belt change, nothing else. By the time they replaced everything the belt touch as I requested the cost doubled. If you just go in and say I need the Timing belt changed that is what they will do as you asked. I would take Andy up on his offer. I had runonbeer right here with me so no need to explain anything to him. Now he is gone though and I am back to dealer services when needed. Be sure I will discuss in detail what I want done when the TB is due.

Talked with them this morning. Was told they don’t change the rollers and never have. Told me that techs can have ways of getting around things and not needing special tools sometimes. I was spos to get a call from the shop Forman about them trying to fix it to where it runs proplerly. That was at 8am this morning and still no word at 2pm. Once they do that I believe I’m going to take it to Appalachian Diesel. If it is just either a loose hose, off a tooth or not in time I’m still worried that damage has been done or that a roller will give out on me.

If they didn't use any tools, it's pure chance whether or not the car is timed properly.

This is EXACTLY how I got involved with the Maine small claims court system.
A dealership (Thompson VW in Waterville Me. )
They totally botched a TB job and even failed to replace the tensioner (said it only required "inspection"). They did a "Mark & Pray" T/B technique (At a dealership !) .
The owner (of the car , my customer) filed a suit in small claims court ($45).
I saved all of the TB components. Took photos of the impressions on the top of #2 & #4 pistons. Saved the cylinder head (as evidence). I took photos of the paint marks that the dealership used for their "Mark & Pray" method.

On the day of the court hearing we went to the arbitrator (required in maine).
The owner (Jack Thompson) Old, bitter and resentful actually had to gall to offer me a job !
We left the arbitrator (got no where).
I have my bently manual (and the VW part number for the Bentley manual) The VW part # printed on the back page of the bentley manual served as an "Official technical reference" for the hearing. The dealership owner had a "Fit" when I showed him the Volkswagen part # in the manual. He tried to say that the Bently manual was not officially recognised as a service / repair information.
The dealership LOST. They paid for a new cylinder head and timing belt.

~~~~
My point is...No not be afraid to sue these bastards...you do not need a lawyer.
I will advise you to leave your emotions at home....Use only facts, tell the truth, and have your documented evidence...recipts, photos, and the actual component parts that were damaged. The more evidence you have the stronger your case...and remember...You may feel intimidated, you may feel frightened...you may feel overwhelmed you may even feel angry... Leave ALL of those emotions at home.... Rely on the truth and clearly stated arguments and the facts pertinent to your situation.

Amathieson7 said:

Talked with them this morning. Was told they don’t change the rollers and never have. Told me that techs can have ways of getting around things and not needing special tools sometimes. I was spos to get a call from the shop Forman about them trying to fix it to where it runs proplerly. That was at 8am this morning and still no word at 2pm. Once they do that I believe I’m going to take it to Appalachian Diesel. If it is just either a loose hose, off a tooth or not in time I’m still worried that damage has been done or that a roller will give out on me.

Click to expand...

I just wish you would have recorded that conversation.
The TB kit that you buy FROM the dealership will include the idler rollers and the tensioner.

I asked for a quote at Jennings in Glen View, Il and I was shown a receipt for a Passat.
The parts list was the belt and WP only. I changed it myself with all new parts and the proper tools.
The Passat was charged $1500 or close to it.

Little update. I finally got to talk to the service foreman yesterday. Told me basically that they hurried the job and didn’t get to check it. Said he adjusted the injection and it’s running fine. I asked how he has them change them and he actually told me he DOES NOT fool with any of the cam lock tools because then I’d have to replace the valve gasket!! Then he didn’t even know what I was talking about when I mentioned the vacuum pump. Told me he also doesn’t worry about the marks on the flywheel or lining any thing up!!!!! I pretty much bit my tongue off when I heard this!! Then he went on to tell me I was showing a bit of air leak in the fuel system according to their scanner. Said it happens where they are old and stuff gets moved around doing that job. Also told me he’s never changed rollers and never need too. So he said my car was good to go, had power back and should be well.
So I go pick it up tonight, I go to crank it and it doesn’t fire up. Tried again, nothing. Then I held it cracking for maybe 5 seconds and it fires up while letting out a big white cloud of smoke out the back. The words that came out of my mouth were not for young ears!! I cut it off and started it a couple more times and it did fine. Drove it home, and it had it’s power back. Started it a couple more times when I got home and still started fine. I’v let It sit for just over a couples hours and saw there was an air bubble in the clear fuel line running pump to filter, but it fired right up with no problem. Guess I’ll see how it starts in the morning...

The funny thing about what he said is that your car doesn't have a separate valve cover gasket. It's part of the valve cover. He's one knowledgeable guy.

Go see Daniel at Appalachian.

It's just plain negligent to not replace the rollers and tensioner while it's apart. Not to mention the sloppy methods they used. I wouldn't be comfortable putting a lot of miles on a half-assed tb job.

Yeah, this'll end badly.

I’m calling Appalachian today to see if I can drop it off on my way to Atlanta Friday!! I’m not risking it. I bought this car two weeks ago and I’ve gotten to drive it a handful of times. Silly but I’m excited about the little thing and want to drive it and this has happened. Lessons learned I guess. Hopeing it’ll get straightened out. Want the car to last a long time!

We have gotten a few problems from Knoxville dealer. And of course them blaming us for problems they find.

Problem with quoting timing belt jobs at a dealer is we have at least 5 places (including Pep Boys) that will steal the job by only quoting the belt. Then after its apart in the shop they come back with water pump, t-stat, rollers, etc. and bully the customer into buying all the other parts.

We have fixed more than a few in the situation you are in now. So now we have two quotes and make it clear to customer before the cross shop else where - here is the basic job for just a belt, and here it is done properly with all the rollers, water pump, one time use bolts. We warn them to ask what gets replaced when they get quotes. Some people just stay and do the job, others come back after realizing we cost the same. The remaining people either get towed back or never see again.

Sorry there are so many places out there that can't do a timing belt on an ALH correctly.

Jason

PS: that sounds a real "winner" of a shop foreman! Jeez! I bet he came from another brand. Definitely stay away from that place!! (BTW - I work at VW dealer)

Amathieson7 said:

I’m calling Appalachian today to see if I can drop it off on my way to Atlanta Friday!! I’m not risking it. I bought this car two weeks ago and I’ve gotten to drive it a handful of times. Silly but I’m excited about the little thing and want to drive it and this has happened. Lessons learned I guess. Hopeing it’ll get straightened out. Want the car to last a long time!

Click to expand...

Good idea. Even if you have to pay all over again it's better than the consequences of a timing belt failure.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

Good idea. Even if you have to pay all over again it's better than the consequences of a timing belt failure.

Click to expand...

They should at least be able to re-use the belt. LOL

Herm TDI said:

I just wish you would have recorded that conversation.
The TB kit that you buy FROM the dealership will include the idler rollers and the tensioner.

Click to expand...

Yes and no...

There is a KIT which will include the rollers and rentsioner.

However... The parts are also sold individually. And I will bet if the OP looks at his receipt, he was only billed for a belt and tensioner.

There's no excuse to botch a TB job and to not replace everything that touches the belt, as well as the Serp Belt & Serp idler and T-stat......... and depending on miles, replace the Alt pulley.

The first time I did a TB job on an ALH took me (with no help) 12 hours. The second one, with help, took me 12 hours. I now have it down under 10 hours including changing the oil, filters and tranny oil. Keep in mind, that's from the time I drive the car into my little garage until I drive it out, including a number of breaks, etc.

This is sad. Sounds like you've made the right choice taking it to another wrench.
That service writer is way out to lunch, hard to say what they did. That bit about the scanner code for a fuel air leak is bogus, we wish there was a code for that. At a minimum it needs looked at, correct timing set and adjusted.