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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old September 2nd, 2018, 08:16   #1
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Question VW scandal and older models

Happened on a Netflix special last night going over the emissions scandal. I have a 2002 Golf TDI and didn’t pay much attention to the story when it broke since it only applies to later model cars.

What I don’t understand yet is how is this so? Were the earlier models like my own simply not claiming to be as “clean”? Were the regulations for pollutants like Nox simply much lower in that era?

I’m assuming the earlier year engines like mine weren’t any cleaner than later ones.

Would appreciate a brief explanation.
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Old September 2nd, 2018, 08:30   #2
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There's a whole lot you could read on this subject but the short answer is that emissions regulations have become progressively more stringent in the past 30 years, both for gasoline and diesel cars. Fact is, your car had difficult meeting the 2002 emissions regs, and VW had to limit the number of TDIs they brought into the US back then to make sure their overall fleet emissions were within federal limits.

Do some searching here and you'll learn a lot more.
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Old September 9th, 2018, 11:05   #3
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The older cars were not claimed to be "clean diesels"

That "clean diesel" marketing claim is 100% of the reason there's buybacks and payouts. The payouts and buybacks are 100% driven by the FTC, and NOT the EPA.

The EPA scandal would not have been nearly as consequential to VW if they had not marketed the CR cars as "clean diesels" in order to achieve maximum market penetration. The cars were touted as "prius alternatives" that are actually fun to drive, better cars that are not a tin can but still environmentally friendly, and so forth. VW would not have sold nearly as many as they did, without the marketing as "clean diesels". When the EPA findings came out, then came the "deceptive marketing" claims... hey maybe my "clean diesel" isn't so clean after all like VW claimed, I would not have bought it if I knew, I'm worried about bringing my kid to school in a toxic car.... blah blah. The consumer buybacks and payouts are what makes this so significant and those came about as a result of the FTC action, and the EPA only indirectly.

Sure, the EPA still had their day, and not meeting the stated emissions standards was important, but that in and of itself was more akin to a "breach of contract" with the EPA, and could probably have been negotiated to a recall and fine.

The payouts and buybacks resulted from a settlement with the FTC, which came about as a consequence of the EPA findings. But to most people's minds, they just jump over this detail to say "VW is paying because of the EPA." But when it comes right down to brass tacks, it's actually "VW is paying because of the FTC".

there are no fraudulent marketing claims for the older cars. So no FTC lawsuits, no consumer fraud, no payouts or buybacks.

And like IBW said, the regulations have become progressively more restrictive over the years. For example, VW could have chosen a less strict standard but doing so would risk 50 state certification, much like what happened with the PD cars. But that didn't fit with the goals VW had for market penetration of their "prius alternative" so the rest is history.
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Last edited by KERMA; September 9th, 2018 at 11:08.
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