Friends don't let friends drive their car

Thanks mods! Could we give this thread back to the OP?

Keebler145 said:

So, let a buddy of mine take the car for a drive.

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I did this once, and it was a big mistake....

He's wanted to drive my car for a while because he swears it's faster than his automatic 4.0 V6 mustang (which it probably is ), so I eventually said ok and let him drive it around the block since I've driven his car once or twice. The main problem was he didn't know how to properly drive a car with a manual transmission. He's done it before (not with my car), but never got "good" at it. Every time he'd just dump the clutch and not give it any fuel, or he'd rev it up and let out the clutch properly, but not give it any fuel to compensate for the engine's RPM's dropping as he let the clutch out. When we were coming to a stop he kept forgetting to push the clutch in, so the car would stall. Once he got moving he was fine. He didn't grind any gears and his shifts were pretty smooth, but I could smell my clutch burning and I couldn't take the whiplash anymore, so I asked him to pull over. I tried to show him how it was supposed to be done and he kept saying "that's exactly what I was doing!" Lucky for me my friend didn't mash on the go pedal like your friend did.

Friends shouldn't drive friends cars, especially if your friend isn't listed on your insurance. If they crash your car you're in deep ****

Is there the possibility of preventing issues by having some kind of "valet tune" loaded through a flash loader if you plan on someone else driving?

My father and I are both listed on the insurance and he often takes long trips that he could really use my '02 TDI instead of his '96 Dakota. I'd like to let him borrow it, but with the new hybrid turbo and PP764S2 injectors going in tomorrow, I'd really hate to have my car explode or implode or really any kind of 'plode unless I'm the one that's driving it (and paying to fix it).

That is definitely possible. Contact your tuner of choice and ask.

First off, your tune shouldn't allow you to destroy your car, no matter what you do to it. I can floor my car from idle and it won't surge, over boost, or anything abnormal(lugging would be normal and of course isn't good for it).

Secondly, yes, most tuners can easily give you a very conservative tune that can be loaded with a flashing tool, by chips, etc.

If your car is allowed to surge, etc. You should get an updated tune.

Jon

jfettig said:

first off, your tune shouldn't allow you to destroy your car, no matter what you do to it. I can floor my car from idle and it won't surge, over boost, or anything abnormal(lugging would be normal and of course isn't good for it).

Secondly, yes, most tuners can easily give you a very conservative tune that can be loaded with a flashing tool, by chips, etc.

If your car is allowed to surge, etc. You should get an updated tune.

Jon

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Bingo!!!!!

Thread has been cleaned up and is ready to move on.

Thanks Bk! Appreciate your help!

Anyways, I'm scheduled for the dyno in two weeks. I'm taking a used Chra to xsboostturbochargers tomorrow to have them rebuild it (Big thanks to Scrapen for pointing me towards the previous thread and location of this place out to me!).

I'll have the rebuilt chra installed and have my boost leak sorted before dyno day. I also sourced another ECU for my car for dirt cheap and will be shopping around to try a different tune/have an extra tune to swap back and forth for when someone else is driving my car so this no longer will be an issue!

Dyno day, where at im down.

Also fwiw, my turbo also surges as well. At 70, if I floor it in 5th it'll surge some. At the moment keebler and I are concluding its due to the turbo. Someone with a 17/22 cant really compare since boost really isnt until 25-2800 rpm in our case.

I dont plan on any of my friends driving mine unless they understand driving cars with bigger turbo's.

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scrapen said:

Dyno day, where at im down.

Also fwiw, my turbo also surges as well. At 70, if I floor it in 5th it'll surge some. At the moment keebler and I are concluding its due to the turbo. Someone with a 17/22 cant really compare since boost really isnt until 25-2800 rpm in our case.

I dont plan on any of my friends driving mine unless they understand driving cars with bigger turbo's.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

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Man, I'm not trying to offend you, but your logic is a little flawed.

You CAN and SHOULD compare your turbo with a 17/22... the 17/22 is even more prone to boost spikes than your turbo.

DON'T blame the turbo. It has done nothing wrong.

Tuning controls the turbocharger, tuning controls boost spike.

No offense taken. Im just stating how both the op and I cant floor it at 1300 rpm without surging, which isnt a problem typically with say a vnt 15 or 17

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What I don't get is how come in the tunes for the bigger turbo, the fueling is not turned down enough below the point of surge?
Or are people running actuators that have weak springs or set too agressive?

I should have clarified my post: even a well tuned big turbo may surge a little when the throttle is stabbed aggressively at low throttle. I forgot the point of this thread, maybe?

robnitro: this is sort of the ultimate question for us customers who have to choose a tuner and a tune without being able to understand every variable. I really do wish that there was a good way for the ECU to run these aggressive tunes BUT be able to monitor and correct boost surge before it becomes a problem. Maybe our 1999-2003 ECUs are a little bit slow (at data analysis/logging?)

robnitro said:

What I don't get is how come in the tunes for the bigger turbo, the fueling is not turned down enough below the point of surge?
Or are people running actuators that have weak springs or set too agressive?

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I have a feeling most people running the big turbos(17/22 and larger) are running bigger nozzles than neccessary, thus overfueling the engine.

I know in my situation, even with the tune cutting fuel back 10% and the IQ set at 8, my nozzles will overfuel the turbo. I really have to ease into the throttle.

If I were to do it over, I'd either get a larger turbo, then the nozzles, or I would go with .205 nozzles and the largest tune possible with the stock VNT-15 turbo.

df

As others have said, the first step in tuning is to know the nozzle opening size and control the fueling/power and tuning from there. The 17/22 is sluggish due to bigger wheel driven by smaller hot side. But once it gets going it rocks. All that stuff has to be controlled by the tune including the smoke. When I came here I could not drive my car on the Autobahn. With my previous tune the smoke was too embaressing. Here there are 300HP diesels putting out fresh air. Fortunately there's alot more on the tuning side going on here.

saab9turbo said:

I just say to my friends, you break you buy/fix or pay....

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Big boys' rules. You break it, you buy it.

Among my flying buddies I know one guy - a former Navy carrier pilot and retired Continental captain - who ground-looped a Kitfox, tore the gear off and comprehensively wrecked it. He wrote a check for about $30,000. Another guy was going to fly a friend's newly restored RV but due to a misunderstanding over the throttle set-up, started it up at full throttle, went through a chain link fence and tore the gear off, etc. I don't know what that cost but it was at least $30K.

The easiest way to avoid all this heartbreak is don't operate other people's toys and don't let them operate yours.

Without a doubt, from my readings, Europe's way ahead of the U.S. in diesel tuning.

Maybe because we really haven't been trying, yet. :>)

eddie 1,

Do you see many BMW 335d? I bet a tune would easily put that engine to 300+ hp and near 500 ft/lbs torque.

That's a car I'd really like to own. Maybe some day...

Hi, I routinely see 335ds on the autobahn. With the twin turbos they are really moving. I once saw a report that the 335d was tuned by the big 3 Tuners in Germany to go from 286HP 580NM to about 340HP 690NM. They compared the elasticity measurement to a Porsche 911. i.e. 60-100kmh in 3.5secs. BMW has a big niche on the powerful diesels.

The yearly car registration tax here is higher on diesels than gas. That is mainly because the diesel fuel is subsidized and lower in price. However another factor determining the tax is engine size i.e. per 100cc. Hence most folks try to get the max power out of the smallest engine before going to like a 335d. The 335d tend to be more company cars which there are alot of here.

Keebler145 said:

you can't floor a 2256 until atleast 2,200 rpms =/

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I have a gt2256v in my car as well, where I dont consider the actuator rod perfectly adjusted yet, and it's still just the first revision of the tune (which i would never say is perfect yet by any means)...
All this being said, I have zero issues letting anyone drive it and floor it at any rpms. No surge, No spikes.

eddie_1 said:

Hi, I routinely see 335ds on the autobahn. With the twin turbos they are really moving. I once saw a report that the 335d was tuned by the big 3 Tuners in Germany to go from 286HP 580NM to about 340HP 690NM. They compared the elasticity measurement to a Porsche 911. i.e. 60-100kmh in 3.5secs. BMW has a big niche on the powerful diesels.

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Hm. In 3rd gear my 30 to 60 MPH (48 km/h to 96 km/h) time is 4 seconds.

Scott02 said:

I have a gt2256v in my car as well, where I dont consider the actuator rod perfectly adjusted yet, and it's still just the first revision of the tune (which i would never say is perfect yet by any means)...
All this being said, I have zero issues letting anyone drive it and floor it at any rpms. No surge, No spikes.

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Scott, you live close enough, and we both have the same turbo. I'd be happy to take you for a ride in my car if you don't believe me. I believe you totally that your car doesn't surge, I just wished mine didn't . You have the same turbo as me so I'm sure it can be done I just need to get it worked out.

I have all the plans made up to get stuff worked out before the end of this month, at the LATEST, first week next month. Still scheduled for dynoing the car too in about 9 days now , hopefully nothing goes wrong between now and then

2eeb,

Actually, yours is more modded than scott02's tdi. I'm sude once you get it straightened out, youn can floor the pedal with no problems. (I shouldn;t do it in my tdi since I have big nozzles and small turbo).

df

Bob_Fout said:

Hm. In 3rd gear my 30 to 60 MPH (48 km/h to 96 km/h) time is 4 seconds.

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OK, but that was a 4th gear measurement.

eddie_1 said:

OK, but that was a 4th gear measurement.

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OK

But that was a Porche 911 compared to a BMW compared to a VW.....


So?

Once you have apples and oranges, it doesn't' matter what gear the peach was in...

Bill

eddie_1 said:

OK, but that was a 4th gear measurement.

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I see your point. The 911 was well out of its powerband (it would be in 1st and/or 2nd gear otherwise).

Geez, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I need to comment on this 335d. My understanding is, 44-93 mph, the 335d has no peer.

Here's the article:


http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2010/04/bmw-335d-three-month-test-report-and-review/2/


There, I'm done! :>) lol!

dieselfuel said:

Geez, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I need to comment on this 335d. My understanding is, 44-93 mph, the 335d has no peer.

Here's the article:


http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2010/04/bmw-335d-three-month-test-report-and-review/2/


There, I'm done! :>) lol!

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265 HP! That explains how the 335d I was following the other day handed me my derriere when we'd romp from 60 MPH to 80 or 90 MPH.

So things have switched up slightly, still going to have the car dynoed on the 16th. But, I found a local turbo shop that is going to change my turbo over from a 2256v to a 2259v (essentially taking the 2359 compressor and sticking it in my current turbo).

This is convenient for several reasons, the main one being I don't have redo my down pipe or exhaust header. After I get the turbo made up I'll then look into getting retune and then I'll dyno one last time.

But, one step at a time! I'll post back up friday after the dyno!