DMF Designs

M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Sorry to bring this topic back up, having my clutch and DMF changed next week and I have two options on make of DMF and they are a completely different design internally.
.
The LUK unit has 2 arc springs where as the Sachs unit uses 10 smaller springs, slipper blocks and a planetary type setup.
Just wondered if one setup would take any extra torque over the other????, my local parts store has both for me to look at on Monday.
Vehicle is a VW T5 2.5 van 275hp/600nm.


This is the Sachs setup:-





This is the LUK setup:-

 
E

Exenos

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Location
Ontario
TDI
02 Golf
The LUK looks like it would be more durable than the Sachs but that's just my unfounded opinion.
 
V

vtpsd

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Vermont
TDI
03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
agree with above, LUK looks more durable, but who knows. 600NM? is that a 240mm flywheel?
 
T

Tero P

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Location
Finland
TDI
Golf MK4 Estate ASZ 379hp, Passat B5.5 Estate 4motion AVF 365hp
I think that Sachs is way better than Luk.

Sacsh dmf's just starts to clatter when they are done, but with luk dmf's whole mass part whobble like crazy when it is broken.
 
M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
fxk said:
Isn't the OEM DMF a LUK product?
Click to expand...
Yes the OEM DMF is LUK, a couple of years ago Sachs brought out a DMF for the 1.9 T5 and they seem to be lasting better.
They have now brought out a DMF for the 2.5 T5 5cyl but only one guy so far that we know has fitted one and its only been in there about a month or so.
 
M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Looks like the Sachs week point is the slipper blocks between the springs breaking up, I think they are made of a composite fibre type of plastic.
 
U

UKairone

Member
Joined
May 22, 2014
Location
Durham England
TDI
130 Bora sport,Mk2 Octavia TDi and a Cittigo.
LUK over Sachs all day long,
A good friend of mine has a pretty succsefull garage and he always vows LUK over anything else...

out of curiosity what make is the oem ?
 
M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
UKairone said:
LUK over Sachs all day long,
A good friend of mine has a pretty succsefull garage and he always vows LUK over anything else...

out of curiosity what make is the oem ?
Click to expand...
The OEM is actually LUK but they don't seem to last that well in the T5, could be down to the vehicle weight and commercial use I guess.
Some people have now started using the Sachs DMF in the 1.9 T5 as they do seem to last longer but the Sachs DMF has only just come out for the 2.5 T5 so it's really untested.

The Sachs DMF for the T5 does have a much better centre bearing design over the LUK but I think the plastic slipper blocks could break up like in the picture above.
 
R

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I have same problem now with my car. above 550-600Nm the DMF bottoms out and when I look in the active surge damper control the ecu tries to react on the rpm oscillation. In the past (like 5 years ago) made same car for a friend with a DLI 1 mass mass flywheel and sintered sprung disc. this setup somehow was undriveable at it had huge oscillations in the drive train at peak torque, after a few weeks the synchro rings in the gearbox broke. so this car was then fitted with a DMF again and torque limited to 550Nm. at this time I did not have decent logging equipment so I do not know if these oscillation could be because of over reaction of the ECU

Car is a seat exeo/audi A4 2.0TDI with 240mm clutch and 01X gearbox. My DMF has 300k km on it, but I feel when I get a new one I will still be limited to 600Nm, which is lame as I have air for at least 100 more.
 
arazvan2002

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
Exeo original DMF is handling 600Nm? I have a new Luk DMF and pd170 pressure plate on my AVF (same clutch as your Exeo) and I feel a Vibration around 2500rpm with more than 400Nm. Could be something else? My car is is quattro with 6sp 01E gearbox.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
 
Festa

Festa

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Location
South east uk
TDI
Vw t5 van
My dmf started juddering at 5k and now at 15k the engine is being pulled out to see what's going on as it's not well at 14-1500rpm. Will report in on Thursday/Friday to state what's going on, got a sachs 4 paddle splinter plate going back in until my new twin disk smf is built :)
 
M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Festa said:
My dmf started juddering at 5k and now at 15k the engine is being pulled out to see what's going on as it's not well at 14-1500rpm. Will report in on Thursday/Friday to state what's going on, got a sachs 4 paddle splinter plate going back in until my new twin disk smf is built :)
Click to expand...
Hope it's back together for the rolling road day on the 12th.
 
arazvan2002

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
Rub87 said:
550 goes fine yes. at 600 it botoms out..
Click to expand...
What clutch are you using for that torque?
I need something for my AVF to hold max 500. I'm afraid of SRE clutch plate because I'm using the car in a crowded city every day.
I have a used kit for BRD engine with stronger clutch pressure plate and a workshop that can make something from it along with the flywheel but with downtime of a week.
I was thinking to renew the plate at the workshop with kevlar and use a SRE new pressure plate but I'm not sure how is in the city.
 
R

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
sinter metal plate is not useable in city. go for organic SRE. drives like stock almost
 
arazvan2002

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
Organic SRE I want, for almost stock driving. Someone with a A4 B8 told me that SRE on his engine was very hard on pedal. He switched to stock after 4 months.
You are saying that SRE organic for AVF is almost stock pedal feel?
 
M

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Festa had a SRE plate and cover on his T5 2.5PD and it didn't last long before it slipped.
A couple of us in the UK are running the OE LUK setup with over 600nm with no clutch slip.
 
arazvan2002

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
Ok. I will remain to pd170 kit +kevlar, all renewed and resurfaced.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
 
intaketommy

intaketommy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Location
Europe
TDI
VW Polo PD130
Does anyone have experience with a reinforced Valeo 4KKit? (SMF)

Stage 1 should hold 470NM and Stage 2 520+Nm...
 
C

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
I got to just under 200,000 miles on my 2002 1.9 liter tuned to 255 ft-lbs torque on my original DMF. (Oh I upraded the clutch at 80,000 miles) When I got the transmission off I could barely see the bolt heads to remove it; big screwdriver pry pry pry, oh now I can get the socket on.

So I went with a 23 lb steel flywheel and I love it. I am hard on clutches so at just shy of 300,000 miles I replaced my clutch and just resurfaced the flywheel.
 
arazvan2002

arazvan2002

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi A4 B6 1.9TDI AVF quattro
Rub87 said:
I have same problem now with my car. above 550-600Nm the DMF bottoms out and when I look in the active surge damper control the ecu tries to react on the rpm oscillation. In the past (like 5 years ago) made same car for a friend with a DLI 1 mass mass flywheel and sintered sprung disc. this setup somehow was undriveable at it had huge oscillations in the drive train at peak torque, after a few weeks the synchro rings in the gearbox broke. so this car was then fitted with a DMF again and torque limited to 550Nm. at this time I did not have decent logging equipment so I do not know if these oscillation could be because of over reaction of the ECU

Car is a seat exeo/audi A4 2.0TDI with 240mm clutch and 01X gearbox. My DMF has 300k km on it, but I feel when I get a new one I will still be limited to 600Nm, which is lame as I have air for at least 100 more.
Click to expand...
Rub87 said:
550 goes fine yes. at 600 it botoms out..
Click to expand...
arazvan2002 said:
What clutch are you using for that torque?
I need something for my AVF to hold max 500. I'm afraid of SRE clutch plate because I'm using the car in a crowded city every day.
I have a used kit for BRD engine with stronger clutch pressure plate and a workshop that can make something from it along with the flywheel but with downtime of a week.
I was thinking to renew the plate at the workshop with kevlar and use a SRE new pressure plate but I'm not sure how is in the city.
Click to expand...
arazvan2002 said:
Ok. I will remain to pd170 kit +kevlar, all renewed and resurfaced.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
@Rub87 What DMF was fitted to the car, Sachs or LUK?
I found Sachs 2294 501 178 on Sachs performance site and is sold with SRE clutch kit. I suppose that Sachs DMF should be ok with tunned engines since the best kit they sale for it takes around 550Nm.
If they were prone to fail, they wouldn't sell it as a performance part, right?

How did you logged the "active surge damper control " ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top