How to do your buyback calculations (& post them here!)

sierra3

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
'12 Passat TDI SE / '13 Passat TDI SE
NADA mileage guidelines:

Yep..."it's up to you".

What is the acceptable mileage range and how do I adjust for mileage falling outside of this range?
The Acceptable Mileage Range is the amount of mileage an automobile is expected to accumulate through normal use. NADAguides bases its mileage ranges on averages derived from information received from the automotive marketplace. If mileage falls outside of the acceptable range, then a deduction or addition should be made to the value of the vehicle. How much is up to you. The effect of high or low mileage will vary according to the class (size) of the vehicle. High or low mileage on a compact vehicle will have less impact than it will on a larger or luxury vehicle. In certain situations, mileage can be misleading. It is possible to have either a high mileage vehicle in very good condition or a low mileage vehicle in very poor condition. In these cases, the overall condition of the vehicle should also be considered when adjusting the vehicle value.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Thanks for that clarification. I know my MSRP was over $33,000 with destination, parking assist, mats, roadside kit, and cargo net. So if there are no prices in NADA for our cars, how do you think VW came up with our offers? Dartboard?

MSRP x .017.
deduct result from MSRP.
deduct any mileage modifier.

They are actually out of line on the 2015's They are, and arent following industry standard.. to wit:

They arent figuring destination, or any additions into the MSRP. Theyre using base without anything else, running the standard 17 percent (for the vehicle class, same year, no listed value) , then giving you the arbitrary restitution.

For many of us in 2015's thats leaving us about 2000-3000.00 shy in the inital number vs the 17%.
Example -
30345 MSRP yields a CT of 25187
33200 MSRP (mine) yields a CT of 27556.

A difference of 2369. I dont know how they came at the 'modification' numbers so I cant speak to that.

But what I can tell you is, that their MSRP calc shown is off for my 2015 based on how theyve done all the other calculations. The base this off VIN. Each VIN has an MSRP tied to it.

My EXPECTATION is the numbers will change for many 2015 owners when the vins are polled to the database on the website, and letters submitted.

I need to see 2369.00 more as my base payout. I'll be commenting as such.

Edit 2 - according to VW's own formula, and using 17% - my payout should be

36053 payout / 8497.00 modicfication.

That would actually get me out of the car NOW.

This number is arrived at via taking my actual MSRP, 17% depriciation to clean trade. and following the court formula of value + 20% + $2,986.73.

Even then - my numbers do not match the VW chart whilst using 'their' 'approximate' number of my 2015

30345x.017=25187 25187*20%=5037.00+2986+ = 33210. Thats again, 2K ish off from what my 2015 SEL reads on VW's sheet.

They are doing something hokey with the 15's and undervaluing the hell out them. Period.

The numbers for the passat SEL are devalued at 26%, first year depreciation. Thats not standard. Thats heavy, even if NADA says so. A BMW 7 doesnt even lose that kind of value first year. Theres no way I will accept that kind of devaluation on my 2015 golf. I will drive it 2 years and wring them for all I can.
 
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MrWrench

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
Pa
TDI
2014 Jetta premium/nav
Thanks for posting this! Looking at my 2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SEL (DSG), the MSRP is $30,345. Is the $19,000 the retail value? Wholesale? Having trouble with that one. And doesn't NADA already account for mileage? If so, why is VW dinging us again? Comments appreciated. Thanks.
They are using NADA clean trade in for the starting value for the car
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
They are using NADA clean trade in for the starting value for the car
Again, there is no LISTED NADA CTV for any of the 2015 TDI's save passat.

They appear to be using 17% - or something very close to it, which is somewhat of an industry standard for this class of car, on same year trade when no Black is available.
 

jeff0093

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Location
Brookfield, CT
TDI
2010 TDI cup
If you are looking at the table column 1, that's the vehicle value + compensation already added. You then add/subtract for options listed and the mileage table by model.
What I'm saying it is off.
2010 Jetta TDI CUP 59K at scandal 65,335 now.
Column 1 $15,877 + Roof ($540) + miles ($930) = $17,347
So they are saying the NADA value for the car at the time of scandal is $11,488.22
Borsig book pic $14,050 can't see if you add in for milage adjustment.
My NADA print out $14,699 to $16,322 (printed couple days after the scandal broke)
so why am I missing $$ I'm coming up with $23,500-
They shouldn't be using trade in or black book this should be fair market retail values. My fathers TDI is close to perfect and they don't even include for the TDI factory body kit (think it was $3K at the time)
 

MrWrench

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
Pa
TDI
2014 Jetta premium/nav
Again, there is no LISTED NADA CTV for any of the 2015 TDI's save passat.

They appear to be using 17% - or something very close to it, which is somewhat of an industry standard for this class of car, on same year trade when no Black is available.
I saw there are no values listed. What I was stating was that they are using the trade in value and not retail which lowers the total compensation drastically. The value of my car was over 20000 in August of 2015.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
I saw there are no values listed. What I was stating was that they are using the trade in value and not retail which lowers the total compensation drastically. The value of my car was over 20000 in August of 2015.

This isn't new.

What is a slap in the face is the 26% devaluation on the passat SEL. - and whatever they are hitting the other 2015's for

Look up average first year residuals and depreciation on most cars. 26% is not the norm. Its a serious outlier.

17-19 percent is industry standard. High end luxury cars with terrible residuals like BMW 7's are in the 25-30% range.

Unless that changes I'll be driving my car for 2 years to make up that outlier.
 
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seulenstein

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
newport beach, ca
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
the thing with the 2015 Golf is they're not using trade in values nor 17%, they're actually using 28.3% depreciation :mad:. Here is a direct quote from the legal document Exhibit 1 - Benefits:

"Eligible Vehicles for which no value was published by NADA as of September 2015, derived by multiplying 0.717 by the MSRP for each individual vehicle, as indicated on the list of all owned and leased vehicles provided by Volkswagen, dropping any fractional amount, and then adjusting each Base Value for options. The 0.717 figure represents the ratio of average September 2015 Clean Trade values to average MSRPs for MY 2015 Passats"

This really pisses me off. They're saying my car was worth $16,800 last september, when it was closer to $19,400. The restitution payment is based off 20% of this so that's another ding! These numbers are just crazy and I really hope they change. Having said that, even after getting lowballed were still in a pretty decent situation, since our cars are still on warranty and we can continue to drive them until september 2018 and then accept a buyback…

For Example:
The values for my 2015 TDI S after mileage adjustments are:
$24,456 for the buyback, and $6565 to keep the car and have it modified.
i bought in May 2015. the total cost of my loan (cash price+TTL+1.9% APR/5 years) plus my downpayment was $27,791. My total buyback number is $24,456. This means if I do the buyback in September 2018, I just drove the car 40 months for $3,335. :D $87 per month....:rolleyes: Thats crazy. Comparatively, if i do the buyback this September when its first available, that would mean driving 16 months, $208 a month, still not a bad deal and cheaper than a lease would've been.
IF there is a fix, and if i do it, the $6565 cash payment effectively brings the cost of my car to $21,340. Much less than originally paid for it so the cost of ownership will be less than I was expecting the longer I keep it. The relevant question is what the car will be worth going forward. If i kept it for 10-15 years and was able to sell it for ~$3,000 my cost of ownership wouldn't be bad at all, something like $100-175/mo plus any maintenance i'd have to do. All speculation of course.

Choices, choices. I think both deals are fair, even with these unfair 2015 numbers. I think its wise for anyone to wait and at least see what the fix is before making a decision, especially since waiting to do the buyback actually improves the deal you're getting (especially if your not driving a whole lot). In my case, even though I love the car, the most attractive option is to take the buyback in September 2018, at which point there will only be about $8,000 left on my loan. Pay that off and use the remaining money as a down payment on a new car. Lowest cost of ownership and avoid uncertainty concerning resale value and maintenance down the road.
 
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CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
If i kept it for 10-15 years and was able to sell it for $3,000 my cost of ownership wouldn't be bad at all, something like $100-175/mo plus any maintenance i'd have to do.
Keeping a car that long is almost ALWAYS the best option - second only to buying a 2 year old car and keeping it for 13 years. Most people, however, get tired with a car after at most 8 years, so keeping it that long always gets harder and harder.

You also have to remember, however, that we DON'T know what the fix will involve, and what amount of added maintenance, reduced reliability, and poorer performance and efficiency it will add. It has to add at least some of these things, otherwise there would have been no reason for VW to do the cheat to begin with.
 

seulenstein

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
newport beach, ca
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
we DON'T know what the fix will involve, and what amount of added maintenance, reduced reliability, and poorer performance and efficiency it will add. It has to add at least some of these things, otherwise there would have been no reason for VW to do the cheat to begin with.
very very true. another reason to take the buyback deal and move on. too many question marks on the modification side. either way though i'm not making my decision for at least 2 years haha.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
the thing with the 2015 Golf is they're not using trade in values nor 17%, they're actually using 28.3% depreciation :mad:. Here is a direct quote from the legal document Exhibit 1 - Benefits:

"Eligible Vehicles for which no value was published by NADA as of September 2015, derived by multiplying 0.717 by the MSRP for each individual vehicle, as indicated on the list of all owned and leased vehicles provided by Volkswagen, dropping any fractional amount, and then adjusting each Base Value for options. The 0.717 figure represents the ratio of average September 2015 Clean Trade values to average MSRPs for MY 2015 Passats"

This really pisses me off. They're saying my car was worth $16,800 last september, when it was closer to $19,400. The restitution payment is based off 20% of this so that's another ding! These numbers are just crazy and I really hope they change. Having said that, even after getting lowballed were still in a pretty decent situation, since our cars are still on warranty and we can continue to drive them until september 2018 and then accept a buyback…

For Example:
The values for my 2015 TDI S after mileage adjustments are:
$24,456 for the buyback, and $6565 to keep the car and have it modified.
i bought in May 2015. the total cost of my loan (cash price+TTL+1.9% APR/5 years) plus my downpayment was $27,791. My total buyback number is $24,456. This means if I do the buyback in September 2018, I just drove the car 40 months for $3,335. :D $87 per month....:rolleyes: Thats crazy. Comparatively, if i do the buyback this September when its first available, that would mean driving 16 months, $208 a month, still not a bad deal and cheaper than a lease would've been.
IF there is a fix, and if i do it, the $6565 cash payment effectively brings the cost of my car to $21,340. Much less than originally paid for it so the cost of ownership will be less than I was expecting the longer I keep it. The relevant question is what the car will be worth going forward. If i kept it for 10-15 years and was able to sell it for ~$3,000 my cost of ownership wouldn't be bad at all, something like $100-175/mo plus any maintenance i'd have to do. All speculation of course.

Choices, choices. I think both deals are fair, even with these unfair 2015 numbers. I think its wise for anyone to wait and at least see what the fix is before making a decision, especially since waiting to do the buyback actually improves the deal you're getting (especially if your not driving a whole lot). In my case, even though I love the car, the most attractive option is to take the buyback in September 2018, at which point there will only be about $8,000 left on my loan. Pay that off and use the remaining money as a down payment on a new car. Lowest cost of ownership and avoid uncertainty concerning resale value and maintenance down the road.
If the EPA wants them off the road, this is the wrong approach. I'll drive mine until the last day I can to milk every inch I can from that depreciation value.

Then I'll dump it in VW's lot and never buy another again.
 

MrWrench

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
Pa
TDI
2014 Jetta premium/nav
When the comment period opens up, that's when it's time to let them know how vw is under valuing our vehicles.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
Item Buyback Amount Modification Amount
2014 Beetle Convertible 2D TDI I4 $27,977.00 $7,152.00
Option: No Auto. Trans. -$900.00 -$150.00
Miles: 60001 - 65000
Odometer miles: 75000
Calculation month: October 2016
Mileage Adjustment: -13546
Effective miles: 61454
-$2,700.00 -$450.00
Further Adjustment $0 $0
(Total) $24,377.00 $6,552.00
 

jen_madcity

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SEL
the thing with the 2015 Golf is they're not using trade in values nor 17%, they're actually using 28.3% depreciation :mad:. Here is a direct quote from the legal document Exhibit 1 - Benefits:

"Eligible Vehicles for which no value was published by NADA as of September 2015, derived by multiplying 0.717 by the MSRP for each individual vehicle, as indicated on the list of all owned and leased vehicles provided by Volkswagen, dropping any fractional amount, and then adjusting each Base Value for options. The 0.717 figure represents the ratio of average September 2015 Clean Trade values to average MSRPs for MY 2015 Passats"

This really pisses me off. They're saying my car was worth $16,800 last september, when it was closer to $19,400. The restitution payment is based off 20% of this so that's another ding! These numbers are just crazy and I really hope they change. Having said that, even after getting lowballed were still in a pretty decent situation, since our cars are still on warranty and we can continue to drive them until september 2018 and then accept a buyback…

For Example:
The values for my 2015 TDI S after mileage adjustments are:
$24,456 for the buyback, and $6565 to keep the car and have it modified.
i bought in May 2015. the total cost of my loan (cash price+TTL+1.9% APR/5 years) plus my downpayment was $27,791. My total buyback number is $24,456. This means if I do the buyback in September 2018, I just drove the car 40 months for $3,335. :D $87 per month....:rolleyes: Thats crazy. Comparatively, if i do the buyback this September when its first available, that would mean driving 16 months, $208 a month, still not a bad deal and cheaper than a lease would've been.
IF there is a fix, and if i do it, the $6565 cash payment effectively brings the cost of my car to $21,340. Much less than originally paid for it so the cost of ownership will be less than I was expecting the longer I keep it. The relevant question is what the car will be worth going forward. If i kept it for 10-15 years and was able to sell it for ~$3,000 my cost of ownership wouldn't be bad at all, something like $100-175/mo plus any maintenance i'd have to do. All speculation of course.

Choices, choices. I think both deals are fair, even with these unfair 2015 numbers. I think its wise for anyone to wait and at least see what the fix is before making a decision, especially since waiting to do the buyback actually improves the deal you're getting (especially if your not driving a whole lot). In my case, even though I love the car, the most attractive option is to take the buyback in September 2018, at which point there will only be about $8,000 left on my loan. Pay that off and use the remaining money as a down payment on a new car. Lowest cost of ownership and avoid uncertainty concerning resale value and maintenance down the road.


Thanks for finding and posting that excerpt. I think these data need to be included in our comments to all 3 entities. The fact that they're using 28% depreciation on the 2015s is not fair. I understand new cars depreciate, but I would be more accepting of 17-20% depreciation, not 28%.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

CraziFuzzy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Location
Jurupa Valley
TDI
'09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
2009 Jetta Sportwagen + Sunroof, 137,000 miles.
Code:
.		Buyback		Modification

Car		$13,877		$4,802

Options		$600		$100

Mileage 	$-1,770		$-295

Adjustment	$493		$493

Total:		$13,200		$5,100
 

CHenry

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Location
Maryland
TDI
2010 Golf TDI DSG 4-door (sold)
So unless you have a compelling wish to sell now, the buyout remains the same number for two years provided the average mileage remains under 1042mi/month. That seems like an incentive to keep the cars on the road as long as possible.
 

jen_madcity

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SEL
With the new data about 2015s, this is a rough estimate. MSRP x 0.717 + 20% + $2986 = rough buyback

[$33,380 (.717)] + $6676 + $2986 = $33595. I'll take it if that's accurate, even though I don't agree with the huge depreciation. Will be interesting to see what actual number from VW is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
S

So my 2010 Golf has an October buyback value of $14,675. Seems ok but my questions are.
  1. Why is it based on Trade in value when I won't be trading it in? Should be retail or private sale.
  2. Why don't we get money for all the options? I have the cold weather package. Some people have Xenon lights. What gives?
 

turboBear

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
NE PA
TDI
2013 Golf TDI (sold back to VW 2016/12/28)
... buyout remains the same number for two years ... seems like an incentive to keep the cars on the road as long as possible.
.... except that as things stand now if the vehicle becomes inoperative it will not be bought by VW. So the owner is running a risk. May not be a big risk, but a risk.
 

Philpug

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
Gone but not forgotten
My 2010 JSW stick/roof 144K...$12,900. If it was a 2011...$15,300 to get a comparable (approx) $1K difference to go up a year...I could have 190K miles on a 2011...HOW IS THIS HAPPENING to 2010's!!!!????!!!!!

My 2010 Should be a $14,500 car in this program....at trade in...but it still should be off of Retail, not Trade In.
 

Jazzocaster

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Location
Chicago Area
TDI
2014 Jetta TDI
Here's my numbers:

Year/Model: 2014 Jetta TDI w/ Premium Package
Mileage: 71,500
Region: Central

Buyback restitution from attachment 1A
Base buyback: $23,777
Power Seat: $360
Fender audio: $450
Sunroof: $690
Total unadjusted buyback: $25,277

Mileage adjustment from attachment 2A
Projected mileage at buyback: 80,000
Months since Sept 2015 (assume buyback in October 2016): 13
Months X 1,042: 13,546
Adjusted mileage: 66,454
Buyback mileage adjustment: -$3,060

Total buyback
$25,277 - $3,060 = $22,217

Overall, it doesn't look too bad. Before adjusting for mileage the unadjusted buyback is about what my insurance gave me after I totaled my first 2014 Jetta TDI after only 2 months of ownership. I then went out and bought another one for around this price.

The mileage adjustment definitely hurts though. I had about 45,000 on the odometer when the scandal broke. I'd be really happy if they took the mileage calculations out of it all together.
 

seulenstein

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
newport beach, ca
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
If the EPA wants them off the road, this is the wrong approach. I'll drive mine until the last day I can to milk every inch I can from that depreciation value.
Agreed, I realize the approach is not the best environmentally. But with the settlement set up as such it is the one that makes the most financial sense. If i were driving the car a lot and in crowded cities I might have more of a conscience about it, but I don't drive the TDI much as it stands so i'll hold onto it for a while too.
 

seulenstein

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
newport beach, ca
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
Thanks for finding and posting that excerpt. I think these data need to be included in our comments to all 3 entities. The fact that they're using 28% depreciation on the 2015s is not fair. I understand new cars depreciate, but I would be more accepting of 17-20% depreciation, not 28%.
No problem! :) Agreed. Time for some comments!
 

dhdenney

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 Audi A3 TDI Ibis white
.... except that as things stand now if the vehicle becomes inoperative it will not be bought by VW. So the owner is running a risk. May not be a big risk, but a risk.
I get the car accident thing but what about HPFP? That would be VW's fault, not mine. Speaking rhetorically of course.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Dont think for a minute that the damned near 30% hit doesnt figure in you driving it for 3 years.

It does.

Thats why Im going to drive it the length of depreciation I am being hit with from VW. 3 years.
 
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