Getting a bit freaked out with info on TDI emissions

Ok, I am a newbie with a 2002 TDI with over 1000 miles (2100 km) and I must admit, I knew diesel wasn't the best for health reasons but neither is regular petrol.

I do have asthma and I have been reading up on the particulate formation that diesel fuel creates and the various problems inhaling the fuel/particluate has. I haven't yet come across any info on passenger diesel cars themselves. I am not impressed of the quality and the amount of sulfur in North American diesel.

I realize that new filters that will minimize the particulate will eventually be available, but it won't be available for several years. I can't get biodiesel in Vancouver Canada and I can't make it myself. I don't want to expose my family to any unnecessary risk, if at all possible.

I like the car very much and also the gas mileage, but I don't like the fact the EGR and intake gets plugged up relatively easily. Is there any "comforting" words of wisdom anyone has for me?

Thanks

Use Sunoco Gold diesel if you can find it out there in BC.

"Floor it" as much as possible(after you break in the engine of course), and shift high 2500+ rpm to keep your intake clean. That's what I do, and it seems to work, 117,000KM later, no plugged intake, and a working EGR valve

Blondee, there are a few of us in the Vancouver area that hope to be able to get Biodiesel soon. I went to see a demonstration by a fellow at UBC who is hopping to start producing some, perhaps as a co-op. Hopefully in a month or two there will be more to say....

PS, stay tuned to the west coast topic area. We should be having another GTG in the next few weeks. We can put your mind to ease and one of us will have a Vag-Com handy.

Thanks VW Derf and Tdi_veedub, sounds encouraging. Especially wity hearing about driving 115,000 km without any problems.

VW Derf, have you heard of anyone doing the EGR computer mod here?

Tdi_veedub, unfortunately, haven't heard of SUNCO at all here. What's your mpg like?

A friend of mine who has asthma bought a TDI after admiring mine He says it's the most comfortable car he has ever had because of the effective pollen filter

The Sharper Image has a air filter for inside your car. I do not have a TDI yet, but that filter has greatly reduced my asthma in my gas car.

Diesel emissions are often associated with asthma because of the large particle sizes. However many believe that regular gasoline emissions are even worse for your health because the smaller size of the soot particles emitted allows them to penetrate much deeper into the lungs than the diesel particulates can.

Hope this helps...

These topics have been discussed around here many times from different angles... you might want to check out the TDI Emissions forum or perform some searches.

Blondee, I can do it for you if you like. Email me if you want to have it done and we can arrange something.

Fred

There has not yet been established a direct link from diesel emissions to asthma. The direct link is tree pollen, weed pollen, grass pollen and molds. These particles are much larger than the particles from products of combustion and mankind has lived with these larger particulates for millions of years. The lung has mechanisms to remove these large particulates. The present evidence suggest that particulates tend to exacerbate existing chronic lung disorders, COPDs. There always exist individuals who will exaggerate the evidence (I mean no disrespect to MITBeta, note that he used the word "associated")

With the dawn of the industrial revolution we have much smaller particles from natural gas combustion, gasoline, aviation, etc. These products of combustion form the very small particulate that the lung cannot remove and as a result tend to lodge deep in the lung. These very small particultes cannot be removed with common filters.

In short, if you are asthmatic, suffer from COPD or are otherwise reliant upon filtered air, you are much better off with diesel than petrol. Also note that evidence suggest that biodiesel produces smaller particulate than regular diesel.

Other evidence suggest that people who are trying to maximize gas mileage by minimizing rpm have a higher tendancy to clog induction systems, especially those that are equipped with waste gates (vs. variable vane turbochargers).

I've seen some ionic air filter that plusg into the lighter outlet. Does it work? What differences does one feel in the cabin's air?

Originally posted by julie504:
The Sharper Image has a air filter for inside your car.

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People with COPDs are sensitive to small particles in the air. These filters hopefully remove particulate faster than they leak in. Typically once you open a car door the atmosphere inside is contaminated for an hour or maybe several hours until the filter can "catch up." These filters will do nothing to remove the small particulate that is produced by natural gas, gasoline, aviation, etc. combustion productions, however, will remove quite a bit of diesel combustion products.

I have asthma, too. I have never heard of anyone whose asthma was triggered by diesel exhaust. In any case, the tailpipe points behind you It certainly isn't a problem in my case.

Cigarette smoke is another matter entirely; I cannot go to bars and dance clubs due to likely severe asthma attacks ...

Originally posted by Mass. Wine Guy:
I've seen some ionic air filter that plusg into the lighter outlet. Does it work? What differences does one feel in the cabin's air?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by julie504:
The Sharper Image has a air filter for inside your car.

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's the kind I have. The air smells fresher after about 15-20 minutes. The only other noticeable change is in the long term. I rarely have an asthma attack while driving now.

i have asthma, and in the two years of ownership, i have not had any problems...

don't believe the paranoia and hype.. anything will kill ya given enough of it or enough time.. why not just enjoy life..

Thanks god
We smell the fumes everytime we exit from the car in the underground parking lot.

Controlled trials on asthmatics have failed to show any benefit from negative ion therapy, according to the US National Institutes of Health and the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology. A 1987 study in The British Medical Journal also found no difference in the health and comfort of workers who used ionizers and those who didn’t. The bad news is that some models may emit ozone, a toxic gas that can irritate the eyes and affect the lungs.

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This is great for the upper stratosphere but it's not so good down here at ground level where it's a classified pollutant. It's a powerful oxidizer that our lungs are quite sensitive to.

HEPA filtering is the preferred method.

EPA site on Indoor Air Quality

Hi-

It sounds to me like you are concered about the particulate ehaust produced by your TDi? Correct?
There have been several studies trying to link diesel ehaust to cancer or asthma. From the animal model studies where diesel ehaust was pumped into a room full of rats for different time intervals there was no link between ehaust levels and cancer. The studies did not look for white blood cell infiltration, which is linked to asthma.

Hi-

It sounds to me like you are concered about the particulate ehaust produced by your TDi? Correct?
There have been several studies trying to link diesel ehaust to cancer or asthma. From the animal model studies where diesel ehaust was pumped into a room full of rats for different time intervals there was no link between ehaust levels and cancer. The studies did not look for white blood cell infiltration, which is linked to asthma. What is interesting if a similar test was performed using a gasoline engine a signifigant number of rats died or had lung cancer. This was possibly linked to increased in hydrocarbons in the ehaust.
The next group of scientific data revolves around statistical studies (who was it that said "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."?) Remeber correlation does NOT equal causation....Anyway, the best study was by the John Hopkins group which showed a statistical correlation to particulates and cancer (and asthma? I don't remember the complete paper). Another group in Havard showed a link between particulates an asthma. Both the Hopkins and Harvard studies linked particulates SMALLER than 10 microns. If I remeber correctly Diesel engines produce a particulate size of around 10 microns (part of the reason why we can see the ehaust), whereas gasoline engines produce a particulate size around 1 to 2 microns.
About particulate size...there were some studies done using radioactive tracers attached to different size particles and showed the smaller the particle the further into the lungs it could get (duh...right...). Another study linked charged particles of less than 5 microns to an increase risk of radon gas exposure. Finally another study linked asbestos risk to a smaller size particulate.

So a quick summary....animal models showed no direct link between diesel ehaust and cancer.
Epidemiological or particulate spikes showed increase risk of cancer and asthma with greater particulates of less than 10 microns. Finally the smaller the particle the great the chance it can go into the deep recesses of the lungs never to return to the light of day.

So there are worse things than diesel ehaust...like gasoline ehaust.

Sorry about the rant...hope this is what you wanted.

-Eric

Thanks Eric for the info, I really appreciated it.