What did I fry?

My 03 had a intermittent starting issue I took the starter out. Took it apart cleaned, greased, put it back together.

To test it before I put it back in I placed it on the negative battery terminal to ground it. the cars ground was still attached to the battery.

I ran wires from the positive side. The cars positive wire was not attached to the battery.

When i touched the wire to the starter It worked great but smoke rose up from behind the battery

Now the car does not start.

I removed the battery and tray and took a look around I did not seen anything noticeable melted however I did not remove any the tape yet

I know its probably going to be bad but do you guys have any ideas?

Thank you

When you had the battery tray out, did you check the grounds? Maybe smoke was coming from a bad ground?

Did you check the fuse box above the battery?
When you say 'does not start' does it crank?
Do the dash lights come on?
Interior lights?

I looked at the grounds and they looked OK to me.

No blow fuses above the battery or in the car

The car cranks

interior lights work. Dash lights come on but i still tried a new 109 relay

So the engine turns, but it does not start? If this is the case, make sure the fuel solenoid has 12 volts on start position.

Fuel solenoid will only have power when you first turn the key or while cranking. Power to the solenoid drops out after a second or two if you don't start it.

So during your starter test nothing was connected to the positive post other than your starter wires?

There is no power at the fuel cut off when I turn the ignition switch on. Bad ECM?

Correct during the starter test the cars positive wire was not hooked up to the battery

Hook up a test like to the fuel cut off solenoid. When you turn the key the light should come on for a second, then turn out. When you begin cranking the light should come back on.

Does the glow plug light come on then go out in the cluster?

-J

I did hook up a test light to the fuel cut off it does not come on.

The glow plug light comes on and goes off but I still tried a spare 109 relay that made no difference

You need to figure out what the magic smoke came out of. You obviously burned up something electrical and it's probably completely open at this point.

Disconnect the wiring from the stop solenoid and run 12v to it from the battery. See if it will start. If it does then you know what wire you are chasing. If it doesn't you have bigger problems. Based on what you described doing with the starter though I don't see how anything got cooked.

Genesis said:

You need to figure out what the magic smoke came out of. You obviously burned up something electrical and it's probably completely open at this point.

Click to expand...

I started to look into it further.

Last night I removed the ground wire it looked OK. looking over the harness i did not find anything melted or signs where it may have come from.

Tonight I will start unwrapping the harness

burn_your_money said:

Disconnect the wiring from the stop solenoid and run 12v to it from the battery. See if it will start. If it does then you know what wire you are chasing. If it doesn't you have bigger problems. Based on what you described doing with the starter though I don't see how anything got cooked.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I already tried running a wire to the fuel solenoid. The car still does not start

I put in a spare ecu. Still will not start but now I have some codes

17978 start blocked by Immobilizer intermittent

18058 Missing message from Instrument cluster

The ECU and Cluster MUST be matched; they're not, as you changed the ECU and it won't talk to the cluster. There's a procedure to do it but you need both SKCs.

It would start for about 1 second and shut off with a mismatched immo-ecu. Your problem is not the ecu.

Yep. But at this point he ought to put the other ECU back.

Genesis said:

Yep. But at this point he ought to put the other ECU back.

Click to expand...

Yes.
As far as continued troubleshooting, focus on the main circuits. Any wires or devices in the "hot" circuit could have failed. You may want to remove wire from where you saw the smoke and check them for resistance. The electric system incorporates fusible links to protect against high current.
When the starter was connected as per post #1, everything on the hot side was momentarily energized. We expect the ECU to be well protected, that's why we don't suspect it as an issue.

Genesis said:

The ECU and Cluster MUST be matched; they're not, as you changed the ECU and it won't talk to the cluster. There's a procedure to do it but you need both SKCs.

Click to expand...

I believe they are matched I followed the vag com procedure. I cleared the codes and they did not come back

BobnOH said:

Yes.
As far as continued troubleshooting, focus on the main circuits. Any wires or devices in the "hot" circuit could have failed. You may want to remove wire from where you saw the smoke and check them for resistance. The electric system incorporates fusible links to protect against high current.
When the starter was connected as per post #1, everything on the hot side was momentarily energized. We expect the ECU to be well protected, that's why we don't suspect it as an issue.

Click to expand...

With the cars positive wire not connected to the battery how was the hot side momentarily energized?

Thank you all for your thoughts. I will spend some time on it this weekend

BLCtdi said:

I believe they are matched I followed the vag com procedure. I cleared the codes and they did not come back

Click to expand...

Can you describe how they were matched?

I'm wondering if the starter contacted something in the fuse box grounding it.

whitedog said:

Can you describe how they were matched?

I'm wondering if the starter contacted something in the fuse box grounding it.

Click to expand...

I used vag com

Engine
login 0 +4 digit of used ecu
Do it

Adaptation Channel 50
read
0+ 4 digit pin of original ecu

Test
Save
Done, Go back

Close controller go back
Switch off after 1 min switch on to verify vin and coding

Man, I think that my brain is starting to fry!

The car in running More details in my next post sorry for the length of it

Thank you

I got it running there was nothing wrong electrically. I jumped to the conclusion I fried something after I saw the smoke and it would not start but here is what happen

Checked fuses, 109 relay, wiring etc. All seemed OK
I tested the Fuel cut off and got no power so I changed the ecu I then had power at the Fuel cut off. Still would not start.

After looking the electrical over I no longer thought there was an issue there so I wanted to know if it was getting fuel

I cracked a fuel line there was fuel there but not enough. I bleed the IP of lots of air but kept getting air. To bypass the tank and filter I ran the fuel lines into a can of diesel purge and was able to bleed the pump and the car fired up

I put the original ECU back and it had power at the fuel cut off and it fired up again

The problem was the first time checking the fuel cut off I used a bad test wire. After looking the the wire over there is a spot in the wire if you wiggle you can get the light to turn on and off. This sent me down the wrong path.

The second time I checked the fuel cut off was the next day after the new ecu was installed and the fuel cut off had power. But i did not use the wire which was not on purpose. I forgot to grab it so I only hooked up the test light only this kept me on the wrong path for a little while longer

Thank you All

Whew! It sucks when your test equipment fails on you. Been down that road with a fuel pressure gauge that was reading high. If it had showed true fuel pressure I and alot of others would have gone down a different path.

Glad you got it all sorted.

Always best to take your time and only change one thing at a time. And, as you found out, don't assume that all your testing components are telling the truth.

Big hurray for getting the ship righted! I know it's a big relief. Any subsequent issues will be e breeze compared to this!