Canadian supplier for Group 94R battery with 765 CCA?

Vince Waldon

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I can tell the battery on my 2001 Jetta TDI is not likely to last the winter.

It takes a group 94R battery... lots of folks carry a 94R with 650CCA but there are a couple US versions out there (DEKA, for example) that seem to be 765CCA. Napa Canada lists their Group 94R as 765CCA but of course the one they actually have is 650CCA.:rolleyes:

Given how precisely the plastic surround, fuse block, etc fit the 94R formfactor I'd rather not move to a bigger battery, but I'd like to find something with 750+ CCA if I can.

Any Canadians out there find something bigger than 650CCA that drops into the 94R slot?

thanks in advance,

Vince
 

Vince Waldon

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Our winters get to -35C (-31F) and the car has to sit outside for extended periods... an extra hundred CCA will come in handy if it's available. ;)
 

puter

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I think you're confusing Ah and CCA.

CCA just determines what current can be pushed by your battery. Ah determines how much energy can be stored. In your case, you should be more concerned with finding a higher Ah than CCA.

So long as your CCA can meet the needs of starting the car, then you should be fine.
 

Ski in NC

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Puter, that's not correct. In cold climates, the CCA is the number to look at. That represents the peak kW that can be applied to the starter, which hopefully results in an engine start in a few seconds. The Ah represents the time-current integral, which determines how long the starter can crank the engine. That is revealed with long cranking, Which is only noticed when the engine fails to start in the first go. More Ah means you can crank for more minutes.

In a perfect world, you want both high CCA and Ah, but the physical size of the battery hole limits both.
 

Vince Waldon

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puter said:
So long as your CCA can meet the needs of starting the car, then you should be fine.
Yup, "meeting starting needs" is the key.

My understanding of the ratings is:

CCA: minimum starting amps the battery can deliver at 0F (-18C) for 30 seconds and still maintain a cell voltage of 1.2V / cell

CA: same as CCA, except measured at 32F (0C).

AH: the number of amps X hours the battery can deliver a small specified current (usually 3.5 Amps in Europe), at room temperature. ie: 80 AH battery can deliver 3.5 amps for 23 hours so it's an (3.5X23) or 80 AH battery.

So my view: for starting in the dead of winter the CCA rating is more important than the AH rating (or the CA rating), by far. The temperature component is particularly important, since lead-acid battery's performance drops drastically with temperature.

In any event... my question remains.. there seem to be 650CCA versions and 765CCA versions of a group 94R battery, and I'm looking for a Canadian supplier of the 765CCA version.;)
 

neimis

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Vince, I know Vancouver winters are nothing compared to Edmonton's (I grew up in Edmonton), but I have had excellent service from the OEM battery on my 2001 Golf. I just recently replaced it after over 8 years of service, mostly as a preventative measure. I typically get only 3 to 5 years from aftermarket brands (Interstate, Exide) so getting 8 years of life seemed pretty good to me.
I choose to just buy another OEM battery, got it at VM autohaus for around $145 including taxes, I think. I don't even know what brand it is (Varta maybe?) and there is no information on it regarding CA or CCA (!!?)
Even though there are no specs for it I think it's the best battery for our cars, and that it's a better deal than paying slightly less for yet another Interstate MTP.
It's another option for you to consider, Neil
 

NB_TDi

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People in colder regions than you use the OEM battery.

The key is to have a Zerostart heater or something else to keep the engine warm.
 

tditom

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Vince Waldon said:
I can tell the battery on my 2001 Jetta TDI is not likely to last the winter.

It takes a group 94R battery... lots of folks carry a 94R with 650CCA but there are a couple US versions out there (DEKA, for example) that seem to be 765CCA. Napa Canada lists their Group 94R as 765CCA but of course the one they actually have is 650CCA.:rolleyes:

Given how precisely the plastic surround, fuse block, etc fit the 94R formfactor I'd rather not move to a bigger battery, but I'd like to find something with 750+ CCA if I can.

Any Canadians out there find something bigger than 650CCA that drops into the 94R slot?

thanks in advance,

Vince
Vince, no need to be concerned about a physical size difference. Part of the BCI group numbering system is the physical size, so all 94R have the same dimensions, even though one may claim to put out more CCA than another.

In either case, I have not heard of anyone having a problem with a 94R starting their car in any weather. Maybe someone from further north than Michigan will chime in here :)
 

MOGolf

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Sears (in the US at least) has an "international" Diehard with those high CCA specs too that is 94R size. I just saw one on the shelf this morning.
 

puter

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Make sure whatever battery you get meets spec for Ah.

There are a number of batteries out there that _appear_ to be better due to higher CCA, but don't meet spec for Ah.
 

Vroom

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Noticed that we had an Interstate dealer in my town (Windsor, ON). Oddly his book suggested both group 47 & 94 for A4's, with a group 47 for my 2001 specifically... no idea why.

I ended up going to costco instead. No Group 94 there (or even 48 or 49) but ended up buying a group 27 battery for $100. It's about an inch taller than the old battery so the lid doesn't exactly shut but it seems to fit well otherwise. From what I can tell, the group 27's seem to be marketed more as a deep cycle battery? I don't remember the specs, but they seemed decent enough (CCA was quite a bit more then the old one, and based on the size I'm assuming the Ah capacity is at least as good too).
 

puter

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That assumption is most likely wrong.

It seems to be much harder to get batteries that meet Ah than it is to find batteries that meet cca.

The battery will probably last two or three years at least.
 

Vroom

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It's hard to tell how it will compare exactly given that they didn't list a specific Ah rating, but as I said it seems to be targeted for deep-cycle applications so I'm hopeful. There was some kind of reserve capacity figure quoted, and although I don't remember the number it seemed quite good. Was definitly the biggest battery they had and was surprised that it squeezed into the box L&W-wise, if not height-wise.
 

TornadoRed

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Johnson Controls makes the batteries for a good number of different brands, shown here:
www.autobatteries.com

Using the battery selector, there are matches for these brands: Everstart, Blaine Farm and Fleet, DieHard, Kirkland Signature, Optima, and Duralast.

The DieHard battery has less than 600 CCA.

The Everstart battery, size 94R, 765 CCA, is sold at Walmart. I know nothing more about it.

The Optima Red Top, size 35, has 720 CCA. It may also be sold under the Blains Farm and Fleet brand same part number (RED35).

The Duralast Gold, size 94R, has 650 CCA and is sold at Autozone.

Sam's Club sells the Energizer (aka Kirkland Signature), size 94R, with 765 CCA.

I was at O'Reillys last week, they had a super-duper battery with 800 CCA but I don't think it will fit in the available space.
 

ymz

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streeker02 said:
why not just buy the correct battery from VW for $135 and be done with it?
X2

Make sure they sell you the one for the Diesel: p/n 1JO 915 105 AG (also known as 000 915 105 AG)

Yuri

PS: my battery cost less... from a VW dealer as well... of course, you don't have a provincial sales tax out there in the Wild West...
 

TornadoRed

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streeker02 said:
why not just buy the correct battery from VW for $135 and be done with it?
I walked into a Walmart with the full auto department, lube service, etc., and saw a battery in the 94R size, 910 cranking amps, 765 cold cranking amps, three year full replacement warranty, nine year prorated warranty, and a price tag of $75 US plus tax.

This battery is the Everstart Maxx, manufactured by Johnson Controls. I didn't have any questions, I just told the clerk "I want that one."

I do not know what batteries NAPA has to offer, or if they have one with 765 CCA, but if they don't then check out Walmart. (I also got two gallons of M1 5w40 TDT, not available at all Walmarts.)
 

puter

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why is everyone so focused on cca?

as long as cca meets spec, you're fine. A higher cca rarely does you any good.

It's Ah that will give you a longer life battery, that can site longer, that can run more peripherals, etc.
 

TornadoRed

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puter said:
why is everyone so focused on cca?

as long as cca meets spec, you're fine. A higher cca rarely does you any good.

It's Ah that will give you a longer life battery, that can site longer, that can run more peripherals, etc.
Is there no correlation between CCA and AH? Or are you saying there is a negative correlation?

At -30°F, which battery will start my Golf TDI, that is all I need to know and want to know. I do not want to hear "errr...errr...errr...err...er........er."
 

puter

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Think of cca as a hose connected to a bucket, and the bucket Ah.

No matter how big that hose is, if the bucket is empty you are not going to get any water out of that hose.

I would expect cca to have more connection with the internal resistance of the battery.
 

Vince Waldon

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Everyone is focused on CCA 'cause that's what's important for starting a diesel on a cold Canadian morning.

AH is rated at room temperature (80F) over the course of 20 hours... has little to do with how well the battery will provide the needed 400 Amps for 30 seconds at -30F.... other than the fact that a battery with a high AH rating has the plates to have a good CCA rating as well.;)

Because a battery's performance drops dramatically and non-linerially with temperature how it performs at room temperature is only partly indicitive of how it will perform at cold temperatures.

Lots of documentation on this all over the web...Wikipedia has a good summary in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery

Here's another set of definitions:

http://www.thebatteryterminal.com/Glossary_definitions.htm

Rick Asley's "MGB Electrical Systems" specifically states:

"CCA is more relevent than AH on cars with alternators and for which the battery is only used for starting the car"

Once the car starts the alternator provides *all* the car's electrical energy (assuming it's sized correctly!)... including stereos etc.

AH is a more interesting rating for deep cycle batteries etc that are used to store energy and deliver it at room temperature over a longer period of time, say, as backup UPS power.

The OEM battery is 80AH and about 650CCA.... but there are 765 CCA versions of this same form factor... at least in the US. Can't seem to find one in Canada, which was the ask of the original post. Sigh.:D

Thus, I ended up with the original OEM battery... we'll see how she does.

Thanks all for your input.
 
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puter

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don't forget about running that alarm all night, and then running the glow plugs, and THEN starting the car.

Realistically, as long as CCA meets your needs, having a much higher CCA doesn't help much. You need to have the storage capacity (Ah) to be able to supply any energy.

Yes, cca drops when it gets cold, but it would have to get pretty damn cold to drop low enough to not be able to start your car.
 

Ski in NC

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All the overnight loads on a parked car might amount to 1 ah tops. GP's for 20 sec at 60 amps (guess, probably way high) amounts to 0.33 ah. So overnight and glow takes 1.3 ah out of either a 70, 80, or whatever ah battery. Not a significant percentage of stored capacity in either case.

High CCA means your engine will START right off.

High AH but low CCA means you can listen to your engine lump over and over for a long time and NOT START.

If you drain your battery leaving lights or other things on, then yes you need high ah. But at that point the battery is not the problem....

Wish I could help find a high cca batt for you up in Ca, but down south here just about any crap battery will crank a car.
 

T_D_I_POWER

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CCA SAE vs Ah DIN

FYI,

SAE Home > Publications > Papers

Requirements and Norms of Sli-Batteries in the North European Climate

Document Number: 890015 Date Published: February 1989
Author(s):
M. T. Loponen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland
A. Nieminen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland

Abstract:
SLI battery norms effect the performance of a battery in cold starts both directly and indirectly. The indirect influence is for instance due to the prevailing figure of merit, CCA amps (SAE) or 20 h capacity (DIN). The European norms seem to lead to batteries with insufficient cranking power at low temperatures. The SAE norm encourages the manufacturer both directly and indirectly to lower the battery resistance, which results in a higher cranking power and thus in a battery better suited to northern weather conditions.

I'll take CCA battery anyday over Ah battery ;)

My point is even a battery with the correct Ah like this one

MOLL 58045 - BCI 94R CDN$138.35

http://www.autotechdst.com/image-large.php?duid=120

has a meager CCA compare to Everstart Maxx, size 94R, 910 CA, 765 CCA

Where's the Amp?
 
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Vince Waldon

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Great reference paper.... thanks.

Unfortunately I couldn't find a Canadian supplier for 765 CCA group 94R batteries like the Everstart Max... so have a 640 CCA OEM battery instead.

Next time perhaps.;)
 

VOLKSWAGEN_JETTA_TDI

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I got a battery installed in the spring time. I purchased my battery from Active Green + Ross, It's called the diehard International Battery and its made in Mexico.
The specs as described on the battery:

No. - 641MF
Series - 7000
Rating/Rendement (CCA) - 41-660
Rating/Rendement (CA) - 815

ok, now i don't know much about batteries, but are these specs good for my 00 jetta tdi automatic for the winter, and will this battery pull through for years to come?
My old motomaster battery hardly lasted me 3 years, and it was the 72 month brand.
 

puter

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VOLKSWAGEN_JETTA_TDI said:
and will this battery pull through for years to come?
To answer that you need to give us the Ah rating. if Ah meets spec, then yes it will last years. If not then you can expect 2-3 years.
 

NB_TDi

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(Ah) is more of a concern if you are running something off the battery. Like digital cameras; you want a 2500mAh set of AA instead of 800mAh.

CCA is a function that battery can do at 0C. For ~30 seconds.

How do you think a small 15-20Ah battery can boost a car?

CCA, that's how.
 
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