Really annoying problems with Instrument Cluster.

stevetwigs

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Location
Bristol UK
TDI
GOLD MK3
I have been struggling for ages with two annoying problems on my Mark 3 Golf (TDI) and I need help, begging to lose hope with it all.
1) Temperature gauge is showing erratic readings, according to the gauge car heats up way to quickly (compared to what it did before) and regularly goes up and over the 110 degrees mark.
2) The instrument panel randomly does one of the following. (especially when parked up for a few days)
a) All the instruments light up when put the key in but when I start the engine the panel goes blank and a whirring sound is heard.
b) Sometimes the panel comes back to life while driving and the same whirring sound is heard.
c) Same whirring sound is heard on start up and clock resets to zero put instrument panel functions.
Firstly when the temperature gauge was showing high readings I thought it was the heating system. Fan didn’t seem to kick in when gauge was showing over 100 degrees so thought it was fan switch so replaced and topped up coolant. Still, gauge showing high readings with fan not cutting in. So thought it might be a thermostat/radiator problem. So bit the bullet and took it to a garage to get heating system looked at.
Garage hooked up the car to the computer and all readings were fine and fan kicked in at correct temperature and the temperature stayed stable. However temp gauge was fully over to the right with the warning light on. So no problem with my heating system just a problem with the gauge. Garage suggested that it was a problem with my cluster and would be good to look out for a replacement.
So relieved that I wasn’t in danger of overheating, and seemed logical that it was the gauge as I kept an eye on it over the next few weeks and it goes randomly up and down between 90 to 120 degrees and car runs fine (would have expected to have broken down/overheated by now.)
Spotted a second hand cluster with the correct part number and installed today. Still erractic temperature gauge and after much cursing I have got on line and posted this.
Not sure if the cluster cutting out has disappeared as it can be random so will see what happens over the next few days.
Any ideas about either problem?
Could ignore the temp gauge thing but how will I know if I am actually overheating. So want to get it sorted.
I notice someone has recently posted something that sounds similar to my cluster problem, they mention replacing the interior light fuse. But not sure if this would work for me as interior lights have always worked fine.
Any help really appreciated.
Thanks

 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Some engines have two coolant temp sensors, one for the ecu, one for the gauge. (I think) Look over your engine and see if there are two. One might be working, one failed.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
What you describe are symptoms of a voltage issue. The loss of trip memory and clock accompanied by the rapid clicking sound are all to familiar to B4 Passat owners.
The voltage regulator steps the battery power down to a cluster limit of about 9 volts or so. But when high current demands from starting, and a weak battery drop the voltage below that 9 volts or whatever, the voltage in the cluster stops and it's treated like a disconnect and everything re-sets to default (0 miles, 1:00).

The thermal device for the gauge is installed in the same module as the thermal device for the ECU. Since the ECU is reading correctly, and the fan is operating correctly, I'll guess that the gauge temp sender half has gone bad. Buy a new coolant sensor for the gauge and get a new sensor for the computer free!

Replace the battery
Replace the temp sender(s)
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
What you describe are symptoms of a voltage issue. The loss of trip memory and clock accompanied by the rapid clicking sound are all to familiar to B4 Passat owners.
The voltage regulator steps the battery power down to a cluster limit of about 9 volts or so. But when high current demands from starting, and a weak battery drop the voltage below that 9 volts or whatever, the voltage in the cluster stops and it's treated like a disconnect and everything re-sets to default (0 miles, 1:00).

The thermal device for the gauge is installed in the same module as the thermal device for the ECU. Since the ECU is reading correctly, and the fan is operating correctly, I'll guess that the gauge temp sender half has gone bad. Buy a new coolant sensor for the gauge and get a new sensor for the computer free!

Replace the battery
Replace the temp sender(s)
So where is the voltage regulator you speak of?? Is it in the cluster?

My B4v has the clock and trip odometer reset plus the rapid clicking.
 

schultp

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Location
Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 6sp manual
What Lugnut said. :)

You need a new battery otherwise your symptoms will get even worse with increased power demand of cold weather starting. I have an Autozone Duralast 49-DL battery that has worked great.

Paul.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Yes, it's soldered on like another component on the cluster's circuit board. But the regulator hasn't failed so don't bother.
The regulator has to have more voltage on the input side than it's output to function. If it's output is built to be 9 volts than it needs at the absolute minimum 9 volts on the input. Drop to 8.9 and the regulator shuts down. The memories treat that power interruption as a power interruption and reset. THe 'clicking' is the stepper motors in the speedo and tacho grasping at the last few electrons passing through.
The real remedy is to keep the voltage from dropping below the threshold.
Put a volt meter on the battery terminals as you crank the starter. If it drops below about 9.5 volts, the battery's cranking amperage discharge rate (C.A. or C.C.A., cold cranking amperes) isn't great enough.
 

Seatman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
TDI
2014 Skoda rapid elegance 1.6 cr tdi
I don't know if this is relevent or helpful to your situation but I read a post on another forum where the guy resoldered the plug connections on the back of his clocks because he reckoned there were a few dry solder joints which were giving him a lot of random issues.
 

stevetwigs

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Location
Bristol UK
TDI
GOLD MK3
Thanks for all the info everyone.
My battery is fairly new, but will get the multimeter out and test it and test the alternator and let you know how I get on.
Will try and locate the temp sensor. I presume it will be on a coolant pipe high up and near to the block.
 

schultp

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Location
Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 6sp manual
Does the battery have the proper CCA (or Amp-hours) rating to handle the demand of starting a diesel. If not, it will have proper voltage with no load but when you crank the engine the voltage can drop down to the point where your instrument cluster does what yours is doing.

Not saying this is the cause. But, keep it in mind as you work through your various ideas.

FYI, the duralast 49-DL is rated at 850 CCA.

Paul.
 

Redlabel6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Location
Chaska, Minnesota
TDI
98 Jetta, 2005 Passat
My 97 gasser had more than a few suspect solder joints. once I went over it with a magnifying glass and re soldered them all of my cluster problems went away.
 

stevetwigs

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Location
Bristol UK
TDI
GOLD MK3
Hi all,

Done a test on the battery.

12.86 volts after been parked up for 24 hours, 14.60 volts when running. CCA rating is 650.
So I would suspect that Battery is O.K?

I think I have located the coolant temperature sensor under the bonnet.

I then checked the condition of the wires attached to the sensor. I traced the earthed connections back to a nut near the right side of the engine where three wires terminate. I noticed these were badly corroded (green copper corrosion on all three wires and the nut).Checking another post through the link posted above http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=229722 it linked through to another post http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2251256&postcount=22 with similar corrosion issues. (good pictures of earthing location)
So would I be correct in assuming that the earth for the sensor and the cluster are all located at this point?
Anyway I have cleaned up the connections and finger crossed on an hours drive yesterday all seemed fine no cut out of cluster and temp gauge stayed stable at normal temperature.
I dont want to count my chickens as I thought I have solved this problem before and it seems to come back again in a few days.
Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks again everyone
 
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