2003 Golf Alignment

Hi all,

I had a couple bad rear control arm bushings, questionable ball joints, and pulled threads where the sway bar end links attach - so I decided to go with the complete control arms from IDparts:

http://www.idparts.com/control-arm-complete-ball-joint-tt-bushings-right-a4-p-6180.html

I installed them last weekend and while it went well overall, the three ball joint bolts were already torqued (and yielded) from Mevotech. I left them in the position they had been installed in but I'm unsure if this is how I should leave them. I know you only get a small amount of camber adjustment out of the 1/2" slots and it isn't even an official adjustment procedure, but what should I do? Just leave the ball joints where they're at? Buy new bolts and re position them? I'm not sure where to put them if I go that route. Perhaps go in for an alignment check only, then adjust ball joint mounts in/out based on that?

Also, after the install, the steering wheel is a few degrees off of center when traveling straight down the road. Could this all be in the ball joint mount or is it more likely that the PO got an alignment (toe) done with worn bushings? I know I'll need a front alignment regardless. I've got a clunking front end so I'll be replacing my strut mounts and sway bar bushings before the alignment.

Thanks for any help,
David

If you're going to get an alignment just leave it. They will be able to straighten your wheel out with the tie rod ends. If you have traction control and the steering wheel is off to much (15 deg?) your traction control light will come on. That should go out though after you have the alignment done.

No traction control for me.

Should I make sure the strut mounts and sway bar bushings are in before an alignment?

onehotpocket said:

No traction control for me.

Should I make sure the strut mounts and sway bar bushings are in before an alignment?

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Everything, any parts you plan on changing just do them all first then get the alignment. Shouldn't make much odds but you never know, best to have it all done then you can leave it alone after.

I agree^^^ change all the parts first and then get the alignment, otherwise you pay for two alignments, or one alignment and another complete set of tires...

1. Replace parts.
2. Put some miles on the car (50 or so) to let things settle down.
3. Take in for an alignment.

Got it. Thanks guys. I've got sway bar bushings, strut mounts, dog bone, and outer tie rod ends on the way.

So the ball joint location is really nothing to worry about? I'm wondering if I should mention to the shop that I would really just like a toe adjustment only.

Once your parts are up to snuff, I'd get the full 4 wheel alignment. Search out a good shop in your area.

The four wheel alignment is the way to go; trying to cheap out now will cost money later. Ever been behind a jacked-up four wheel drive truck and when you looked at it it looked like it was sitting sideways in the lane ahead of you? It was, they only had the toe set and the rest of the tires were getting worn off.

I just did sway bar bushings, control arm bushings, ball joints, and full tie rods. It took 8hrs with 2 people. Never done it before so it took some time. Just got it aligned this morning. Very happy with it not a huge change, but its just better than before. I bought life time alignment at Firestone.

Nevada_TDI said:

The four wheel alignment is the way to go; trying to cheap out now will cost money later. Ever been behind a jacked-up four wheel drive truck and when you looked at it it looked like it was sitting sideways in the lane ahead of you? It was, they only had the toe set and the rest of the tires were getting worn off.

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It's not the cost that bothers me - I just thought I read that there are no adjustments to be made in the rear. If it's out, it just needs new parts.

onehotpocket said:

It's not the cost that bothers me - I just thought I read that there are no adjustments to be made in the rear. If it's out, it just needs new parts.

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My thought, if the back is out far enough it may point out something that needs repair.
Tire wear may also indicate something.

Once again, there is no such thing as a "two wheel alignment".

Seems like I have explained this countless times, but here it goes again:

The "modern" version of an alignment machine has been in use for 40+ years. It is hardly new. Yes, they have updated the way the heads mount, the way they interact with the machine itself, they way they calibrate, etc. but the same basic idea, with all four wheels getting checked, with four heads being mounted to the car, is the norm since Volkswagen started putting their name on Audi designed cars with the engines in the wrong end of the car driving the wrong axle.

If some shop has an old "two wheel" alignment machine still in operating order, I want to see a picture of it.

The way a modern machine works is it measures the rear wheels' position along with the front wheels, and allows for an alignment accordingly. You ALWAYS check the rear wheels, and you ALWAYS align (if possible) the rear wheels FIRST. There is simply no other way to do it.

Even if the rear wheels have no actual adjustment, you still need to know their position because that is what the front end alignment will be based off of (thrust angle) as well as you need to know if the rear end is all out of whack. And despite popular belief, the rear axle beam of all FWD VAG cars, A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, B4, B5, as well as the forgotten Fox, do indeed have some allowance for a minor adjustment. This is why the bracket holes are slotted! There is not a lot of adjustment available, but it can often be all it takes to at least equalize the toe-in on the rear axle. But if the rear camber is off, or the total toe is way off, or the total toe is negative, then the rear beam is BENT. The body could be bent too, but that is pretty rare. The beams bend much more easily, and that is good, as they are easily replaced. I would not want to have to fight bending the unibody box rails back straight if you tag a curb hard.

Also, if the rear beam bushings are severely worn out, broken, torn, etc., then the rear beam's alignment will never ever be right. And on the A2, A3, and A4 cars, the rear beam bushing health is critical to proper handling as those cars use a track correcting rear axle... sort of a passive anti four wheel steer mechanism that allows for bushing deforming as the beam twists to help keep the rear of the car under control around corners. That is why they are canted at an angle, and have a specific mounting clocking during installation. A friend uploaded a 1985 Golf/Jetta (A2) new model training video to youtube for me a few years ago that has some nice illustrations of how that (then new) system worked, I will try and find a link.

Once the REAR is correct, then the front is fairly straightforward conventional setup like many transverse FWD cars use (on the A2, A3, A4, B3, and B4, anyway). The camber can be equalized with a small adjustment via the subframe fasteners, which hold the subframe to the body through elongated holes. Again, not a lot of potential adjustment, but good for a tweak to at least move the camber closer to the same on both sides, which should be slightly in the negative. If it is off beyond that amount, something is bent! Usually it is a strut, but it could also be the carrier (sometimes called a knuckle or spindle). Rarely, unless the car has been involved in a pretty bad accident, is the body itself bent.

I have aligned thousands of these cars. Rarely can I not get them darn near picture perfect afterwards.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRR3MGHbMA4&list=PLcFX6_3x7JTY5zoUI8LISIb2xFWpylZf7 Suspension stuff starts at 11 min.

Excellent explanation!

oilhammer said:

..............................
I have aligned thousands of these cars. Rarely can I not get them darn near picture perfect afterwards.....................

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I'm curious, of the ones that are just for alignment, roughly what percent need part(s)?

95% of them. I rarely ever align a car "just because". If it drives straight, is in good order, nothing is worn or broken, not crashed, then there really is not a huge need for putting it on the rack and mounting the heads. The most it might need is a slight tweak to the toe.

Vast majority of the time I am simply aligning it AFTER I get all the worn parts replaced. And for that matter, I would never put a car up on the alignment rack without first checking it over thoroughly on the regular lift. Unless it has really low miles and the owner is asking for an alignment because they are buying new tires or something.