Trans grinding into 3rd

Hi I have a 2005 Volkswagen Passat b5.5 TDI manual five speed swap done. Tonight the car started grinding going into third gear what are your thoughts? I tried double clutching still doesn’t make a difference. Bad synchro? Should I be of big concern.

Change the gear oil. I've had great luck with Pennzoil Synchromesh fixing grinding gears. I'm not that familiar with the B5 5-speed transmission but if the Pennzoil is the right spec I'd give it a shot.

I will have to try that. I bought a different donour car with bad auto trans. So have to pull the tranny out.I will put fresh oil in it. My girlfriend was driving it home tonight. Said it felt like she hit something car made a little hop wasn’t in third at the time. Ever since that it grinds.

synchromesh is the wrong spec for the hypoid ring and pinion in your passat tranny... there are oils out there specifically for synchronized, high shear, hypoid transaxles such as yours ... i do love me some synchromesh but in this case it's no good for your trans

Change fluid, MAKE SURE its the right stuff for your syncros or you can damage them big time. Redline is a great brand. There is a DIY for adjusting the shifter to get everything PERFECT. in a nut shell its getting everything centered and fine tuning 3rd and 5th. also check the shift tower on the trans, make sure its is ridged, if it has a slight wobble, the tower bearing might be bad. Had this issue as well.

I wasn't sure about the spec. It also sounds like you should drive the car and find out what's going on. Perhaps what your girlfriend felt was something breaking.

CoolAirVW would probably know just what gear oil to use. He's our transmission guru on here.

It may not be the called for spec., but Pennzoil syncromesh cured a grinding gearbox in my uncles 986 Boxster- same trans. as the op's passat. The grinding wasn't doing the gearbox any good as evidenced by the old gear oil which came out looking like mercury.

How does it shift without the engine running?

I have to disagree that Pennsoil synchromesh is the 'wrong stuff'.

The really wrong gear oil is one that says GL-4 OR GL-5. There is no either or. It's one or the other, so if it says it's both, it's marketing BALONEY. To know the truth about the GL ratings, its a DIFFERENTIAL rating, not a gear box rating. It has to do with the amount of sulfur/ phosphorus in the oil. The GL-5 has a higher content S/P and steel syncros can handle that rating. But the brass synchros in the 'classic' boxes, like the 02A, 02J and 02Q, the GL-5 makes a sacrificial black coating that attaches so hard, that when it does it's job, molecules of the brass will be torn off with the coating. After not many miles, you look at your gear oil and it shines like panned gold.

To just say, 'Use Redline'. There are PLENTY of Redline oils that are 'the wrong stuff', like say for example, 75-90 GL-5. Although the MT-90 should be right, we have had problems with a tranny using it. Personally, if I am going to spend twice the price on gear oil, but my feeling is the Redline Light Weight Shockproof is probably the best. But at $20 qt, it's expensive.

The conventional gear oil that we have used without issue is Pennsoil Synchromesh.

If the oil doesn't improve the shift, you are probably into some synchro, bearing and possibly gear replacements.

Ok so up date. Took the car for a good drive today. Still grids. But now when I got back filled up the fuel went to leave gas station. Car would not shift out of first gear. Jammed up shut car off and still wouldn’t come out of gear. Then I started the car again and it unbound. I will note that the Manual tranny has been in the car for almost 100,000kms.

I said "redline was a great brand" Not that he should "just use redline" there are pages and pages of what is the right and wrong stuff to use.

That almost sounds like a problem with the clutch hydraulics/slave cylinder. It wouldn't hurt to try bleeding air from the clutch circuit.

Mongler,

Ok, so Redline is great stuff. We agree. I just narrowed down the choices...GL-4 types and the Lightweight Shockproof.

I've seen a lot of transmissions wrecked from wrong oil. I think it's wise to be specific.

That is a good point, turbobrick. If the clutch is releasing very low, it could be a leaking slave or master. Also, since it's in a very long, hard winter area, the internals, like the fork, pivot and throw out bearing could be worn out. We've seen fingers for the flywheel wear off, but not at 100k.

Franko6, the reason i say synchromesh is the wrong stuff for the op's gearbox is that the OP has a passat b5 trans with hypoid gears, as far as i know synchromesh does NOT have the proper shear additives for hypoid gears... can you provide documentation that it indeed meets that specification? of course it'll shift fine in hypoid equipped transaxles but it's what you can't detect through shifting that is of concern ... the valvoline synchromesh DOES meet vw specs for 02J and 02M gearboxes but says nothing of the of the longitudinal vw box, so it's a little reckless to recommend for that application without proof it's not causing accelerated hypoid wear ... my two and a half cents, but I'm NOT running it in my hypoid equipped vanagon box and i swear by the stuff in 02J trannies

My 98 TDI has a o2a trans, i had to figure out by asking around here what to use. i used Red Line (50304) MT-90 75W-90 GL-4 Manual Transmission and Transaxle Lubricant because it is the correct stuff for my brass syncros. I have no clue what OP's trans code calls for or what his trans code even is. im not going to guess. i had great success with my redline experience. thats all.

Jim, the differential GL rating is about hypoid gears. The rating GL-4, GL-5 is not a transmission rating, it's a differential box rating. The limited slip parts in the older diffs require less sulfur and phosphorus, just like our transmissions. The rating for the B5 is GL-4. The B5 gear oil does vary in weight.

So, I will retreat a step. The G 052 911 A2, which is the VW gear oil for the B5 happens to be a 75-80 GL-4 rather than a 75-90 GL-4, as the 02J etc.

I will stand firm on my statement about GL-5.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1277423&postcount=2

run what you want, recommend what you want, not all gl4 is created equal... again mtl and SM are fine for helical gears, but HYPOID ring and pinion transaxles are another matter ...i'm not an oil expert just read for years there are very specific fluids that are safe for synchronized/hypoid trannies...

My uncle has put about 20k miles on his boxster since we changed out the gear oil to Penn. Syncromesh. Maybe it will shear down at some point, but the shifts are still buttery smooth. Pretty miraculous considering how badly it was grinding before. Even if the syncromesh oil has to be changed out every 40 or 50k miles, that's worth it for the smooth shifting, imo.

turbobrick240 said:

My uncle has put about 20k miles on his boxster since we changed out the gear oil to Penn. Syncromesh. Maybe it will shear down at some point, but the shifts are still buttery smooth. Pretty miraculous considering how badly it was grinding before. Even if the syncromesh oil has to be changed out every 40 or 50k miles, that's worth it for the smooth shifting, imo.

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i'm sure it shifts fine, but it's not the shifting that's the issue, it's accelerated wear on the ring and pinion... the oil doesn't have the shear additives to protect your uncles ring and pinion from mile one ... over and out, do your own research

jimbote said:

i'm sure it shifts fine, but it's not the shifting that's the issue, it's accelerated wear on the ring and pinion... the oil doesn't have the shear additives to protect your uncles ring and pinion from mile one ... over and out, do your own research

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I did do a little research. Have yet to hear anything from folks using the syncromesh regarding it damaging their hypoid gear transaxles. I bet it does have anti-shear additives- just not as much as a gl5 lube. Maybe it shortens the r&p lifespan from 1 million miles to 600k. So far his porsche likes it just fine. If the oil was shearing down considerably, I think there would be some signs- gear whine, grinding etc..

I'll keep that in mind though, and maybe advise him to try using some Fuchs sintofluid or something with the OE spec next time. He should probably change it out again soon due to the amount of glitter in the oil last time.

glitter is always worrying, you might be right about it only knocking off 40% of the gear life, but once the hardened layer is gone the ring and pinion are toast

Jim, the 'more slippery GL-5' may or may not be, but the extra sulfur and phosphorus is definitely an additive that makes for worn out brass syncros. I see what you copy/paste and of course, if it's in print, it must be true... heh. Actually, I will do further research. I just know I can't use GL-5, nor would I recommend it. There is no GL-4/ GL-5 in the same container... can't be.

Thank you for your information.

I will tell you what I do think is terrible. The guys at Wavetrac recommend the GL-5 for the 02A and 02J, when using their LSD. I know from some terrible experience, that is the wrong stuff. Whether it wears out the diff, I have not experienced that.

Franko6 said:

Jim, the 'more slippery GL-5' may or may not be, but the extra sulfur and phosphorus is definitely an additive that makes for worn out brass syncros. I see what you copy/paste and of course, if it's in print, it must be true... heh. Actually, I will do further research. I just know I can't use GL-5, nor would I recommend it. There is no GL-4/ GL-5 in the same container... can't be.

Thank you for your information.

I will tell you what I do think is terrible. The guys at Wavetrac recommend the GL-5 for the 02A and 02J, when using their LSD. I know from some terrible experience, that is the wrong stuff. Whether it wears out the diff, I have not experienced that.

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never said GL5 is ok for brass synchro transmissions, i ONLY use synchromesh in 02J and 02M ... what i'm saying is not all GL4 is safe for hypoid gears... the copy/paste above is from a tech sheet for redline MTL from redline's site
https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil

honestly i'm confused now too because redlines notes: mtl,mt85,mt90 "not for differentials with hypoid gears" but when i enter 2002 manual passat it recommends mt90, scroll down on the spec sheet for mt90 and it gives the same warning ... passat b5/5.5 has a hypoid differential

I've been using the aforementioned Redline lightweight shockproof gear oil w/ no issues. Going on about 50k miles w/ the tranny. I think it was about $36 delivered from Amazon... (2quarts of it). Makes a world of difference, although, so does new syncros. (Thanks to Matt W).

Jim,

That is EXACTLY the problem with Redline, is TMI and maybe incorrect info translated from what should be from experience bases. Just as InfoSec says, the Redline Lightweight Shockproof is good stuff, but don't look for a rating you can translate. It's just from experience.

We know distinctly, that the mis-information trail goes directly to WaveTrac. We will not buy the Motul 300 75-90 or the Performance 75-145 gear oil they recommend for their WaveTrac, because that oil is not considering our brass syncro issues. Both are GL-5 oils... wrong stuff.

Bluntly, unless you read carefully and get some real world experience, I think the mis-information trail is wide and long. But, Jim, I do appreciate the perspective. There are a lot of things I don't know; a few things I think I know and plenty, I have no idea. What I know fills a thimble and what I don't, fills a bucket.