Cold Start Issue.

Hi:

I am having a cold start problem:

Situation:
Car cranks over fine when warm, but when cold the starter is slow to crank, then, dies after a few seconds, if I continue to engage starter there is a noise behind the instrument cluster, not sure exactly how deep in but from behind the instruments, it electrically groans for a second and a half, then the tripometer,will reset to zero.

I do have new engine glow plugs, and harness, and no mil on.

The glow plug light comes on ok, and stays on longer when colder, ok.

I am able to pop start it, because it is parked on an incline, and it starts
right up, and ignites the fuel ok.

I had the battery, alternator, and starter inspected, ok.

The battery does pass a load test, but after this situation happens, it loses some charge, so I suspect a high current short.

All the cables are clean and tight.

Can anybody??, help me out as I am considering the coolant glow plugs circuit to be suspect.

I was thinking the easiest way to disconnect the coolant gp's was the fuse removal from battery fuse box.

Because I hear a groan from behind the dash, I want to take the cgp relays
out of the circuit, but that is where it gets shady??

How should I go about this problem, I have a beetle and have to locate the gp module's/relays first??

I also noticed there is a small heating element on that circuit, going to the
CCV on the valve cover, which is suspect also.

Any takers???

sounds like a weak battery or connections

OK, sounds like a good place to start.
The battery is almost three years old, an everstart from walmart, and it tested good at napa, and advance auto.
I assume that it is good as it's meeting the required CCA, but
have another fully charged battery that I want to wire in parallel with jumpers, if that cranks it over on a cold start, before I replace with VW OEM, from dealer, it's about a hundred ten bucks.

We'll see what happens in the morning, gonna be cold.

thanks, i'll post results

I would rechecking both ends of all the cables and the cables themselves.

You need to do a voltage drop test on the battery during cranking. I'll bet you'll find it is way low somewhere.

she didn't start.
I need her to start daily reliably in cold weather.
I must spend money.

My local VW dealer offers a OEM VW replacement battery for 89.00 installed, plus tax and battery exchange core, and 129.00 out the door. It's to Balise VW for me, and my 89.00 battery installed, I do have the Beetle and not sure but think a 72 AH battery is what fits, but I deleted the stupid plastic battery sleeve so gonna try to go bigger 80 AH battery if it fits and they let me.

I checked cables and grounds and they ok fon the ends, and cleaned and tightened cnxn's.about a month ago, but I know the cables are stranded wire so I think they may be corrosively plated with oxidation behind the insulation, but battery goes in first hopefully not wasting money as I have a 875 CA and 700 CCA battery that has been tested good by multiple testers, and I have load tested it, and after being in freezer overnight.

Gotta start somewhere, so let the spending begin.

OEM VW batteries are awesome, that's never a bad investment.

I think I'm going to have to join ALLDATA and printout the technical service bulletin's
This car was made in aug,08, and had a lot of bugs that were not sorted out before released to public.

if you have the time, it never hurts to bring the battery inside, clean it, check the electrolytes and give it a good long trickle charge. You can then check the specific gravity of each cell and compare the readings to determine the battery health.
This is "old school" battery 101

There have been several long and sometimes not terribly productive discussions on batteries on the forums. But what comes out after reading a lot will help.

Your idea of pulling the glow plug fuse might help in cranking, but it won't help the engine start. The glow plugs are very necessary for starting in the cold, which is why they are there.

Testing a battery at the places you have won't tell the whole tale. How long did the test run? How much power was actually delivered by the battery? An instant-on test might say the battery is OK, but if the voltage starts at 12.5 volts and then falls to under 8 after 3 seconds of load (the glow plugs plus cranking a 19.5:1 compression engine kind of load), then the battery is not up to snuff and probably won't start a diesel engine.

I'd figure 3 years out of a WM battery is probably the best you'll get. It matches several other people's experience and my own as well. I tried a wally world battery, and now it is failing in its 3rd winter. I don't curse myself or them, but it is a lesson worth knowing: for a diesel, stay away from wal-mart.

It sounds like a good deal at your dealer if indeed it is the correct battery for your TDI engine. Make absolutely sure it isn't the gasser battery, and you'll be good to go.

Cheers, and good luck.

PH

Thanks for the good cheer PH.

I wanted to pull the fuse for the coolant glow plus, not the engine.

The battery will be replaced with the dealer battery, and the cables inspected and replaced. I'm probably just going to gain fresh time on a new battery, but I'll sacrifice the money and take a chance to make it right and start with some certainty, and have an extra battery I can use in my Bobcat753 running a Kubota diesel. I really wish Ingersoll Rand, or John Deere made a car, it would last forever, 3/8"plate steel vs cheap plastic, what a joke plastic is to have in any vehicle.

Just had dealer install the VW battery in the beetle, the VIn called for a 61Ah rated battery.
I asked to buy the bigger 80 Ah, but they said it wouldn't fit, oh well if it starts tomorrow morning that will be good, but the bad news is they broke the handle to close the door,
another plastic failure, it's ABS plastic, so I don't know what bonds to that to glue it.
I saw a plastic weld kit at harbour freight before, maybe that will work, else a new door card.

ALH Beetles use the 72Ah battery, not the 61. I have no idea how they looked that up wrong, but it is, sorry. You got a battery for the AEG (gasser) engine now.

Yup, I had better luck this morning talking to another parts guy, he gets it, told me the part no., told me they have them in stock, and suggested I come back for a swap, and they are the same price.

Not sure why the other parts guy was dummying up so much, when I referred to him that the diesels need the 72Ah, it was like talking to a wall.
Didn't know what I was talking about?????

I'll be satisfied if they just swap it out for the right one, and call it a day, no charge for the broken door pull.

Any cures for bonding ABS plastic, as the pull handle is made of, tried jb weld, super glue, researched about the possible bonding having to do with chemically melting with acetone, then fusing joint together...

Battery fixed the cold starting problem, thank god.
I guess looking back, having napa, and autozone testing it was bad information.
I will take oilhammers advice next time to do voltage drop while cranking.

you can always take the hammer's word as truth- but NAPA & AZone are doing essentially the same thing, normally they err on the side of $$$ for them

I'm not sure what kind of testing those parts stores do, but I assure you they were NOT getting a good quality DVOM out and doing multi-point voltage drop tests on the battery, starting, and charging systems.

Most testers are either the load type (carbon pile) or the capacitance type (Midtronics is one of the more popular brands). They are limited as to what/how they test because they just attach to the battery posts. We have both types here, and are both part of our arsenal of diagnostic testing equipment. However, my good ol' Fluke 88 DVOM is still used for checking the behavior of electrons.

When you do a voltage drop test, at various points, you are checking the entire circuit, and doing so on the car as the problem occurs.

And checking a battery out of the car is even worse, since then you have to automatically assume all the connections to and from are of good condition. Big assumption. Especially on something like a battery that can often gas out and cause some nasty corroded terminals.

I think they just checked his battery, they push a good charge on it and then apply a load

There are several RI members that have Vag Com you need a scan. You should look at eh CTS coolant temp sensor. A hint here you could change the adaptation to Auto to give you more fuel for the 5 sp cold start if Inj.

We have GURUs in RI why have you not seen one?

Thanks for all the helpful advice etc.

Now that I have my new xmas present VAGCOM, I can troubleshoot my Coolant Temp. sensor max temp reading of 72 C, although the wehler stat and temp sensor are 2 years old.

Peter thanks for the tip in adaptation mode to auto, I want to familiarize myself beforehand as I purchased secondhand hardware, been reading the OBD forums and stickys.

Again thanks all...

New cold start failure, 10 degrees F. glow plug cycled for quite a while, starter cranked slower than a healthy spin, pop started car, ordered Bosch SRO408X
reman starter, $130.00/, a much better price than the dealer, 350.00 for same reman unit, will install upon arrival then.

I might need you guys helping me out, after that, gonna address the CTS READING TOO LOW, then dial in the timing....

I'll repost asap after starter install.