Starter & Cables

Starter & Cables

My starter has struggled some so far this winter...taking 7-10 seconds to start when it was around 5-8 degrees. Battery checks OK...not great...but descent.

So I don't get stranded (I'm an airline pilot that leaves this car in employee parking lot) I think I may just replace battery, starter and the cables (ground, battery to ALT, etc). Wanted to see if anyone has had good luck with this kit I found to replace the wiring:

http://innovativewiring.com/?page_id=5332

If you don't like this kit...any other kits out there? I could always buy wire..and make them...but a kit saves me some time. If you all like this kit...any idea what length cable I need? It has I think at least 3 options.


As well as this starter:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00T689...olid=2QNLW9LR3D9H3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Good reviews on amazon and for $68. Then what I'll do is rebuild the OE starter and have that as a backup...then I can always have a rebuilt one on hand.

Is it necessary to do the wiring? Probably not...I read that corrosion can cause some starting issues as well as battery and/or starter....but if I'm going to remove battery to get to starter...why not get some new cables in there..then finish off with a new battery. That way my starter/battery/cables are good to go for another 17+ years...lol.

Your parts list is as follows

Harness $155
Battery $120 and up
POS amazon alternator $68
Maybe a cheap starter 50 to 75
Now your in it 400 in parts. How about doing some testing and see what it needs. Your said you'd rebuild parts to have on the shelf. Why not just rebuild them and stick them back in.

On the alternator here's a reman bosch for $179.
https://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=341&categoryId=38

I understand you have the $$ to shoot the parts cannon at it but what would you learn? It might be satisfying to diagnose and repair the first time. Buying cheap components your going to get good at changing them.

Test first repair or replace second.

Not that I'm against throwing parts at it, you need reliability, but all those components can be tested. Diesels like strong batteries, some have had the cable to the alternator corrode inside the sheath as well as bad connects. Get a real new or certified rebuilt Bosch alternator if you need one.

The second link is to an Amazon Starter.. not an alternator!

AndyBees said:

The second link is to an Amazon Starter.. not an alternator!

Click to expand...

That was a typo. Fixed now. I meant starter.



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So here's a starter, but it's the same idea. Test it and change it once.

https://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=654

Like the others have said. I recommend a new battery AGM technology. If your cables aren’t very corroded I’d leave those alone. If anything they typically just need a cleaning at ends, and a simple ohm meter can tell you whether there is too much resistance. But like the others have said it’s likely just your battery. Diesel vehicles really like good strong batteries.


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AS others have said, if your car did not come from the factory with an AGM battery, don't buy one. Yes, I'm just repeating what old-timers here have said, but these guys are engineers and highly experienced daily mechanics.
As for a starter motor, a reman BOSCH is your best bet.
If I was having the symptoms ratkc135 is having, I'd just slap in a new starter and see if the problem went away. I'd baby along the battery and while I would inspect the cables, I wouldn't replace until they show signs of corrosion. Corrosion doesn't start deep inside the cable. You'll see it at the ends well before it starts interfering with operation.
ratkc135,
Get a BOSCH reman, and take your old one someplace good that rebuilds them all day. Bam. You're set.
EDIT: and if you're at all worried about your battery, get a nice 94R sized replacement. Dealerships should have good prices.

drucifer said:

Your parts list is as follows

Harness $155
Battery $120 and up
POS amazon alternator $68
Maybe a cheap starter 50 to 75
Now your in it 400 in parts. How about doing some testing and see what it needs. Your said you'd rebuild parts to have on the shelf. Why not just rebuild them and stick them back in.

On the alternator here's a reman bosch for $179.
https://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=341&categoryId=38

I understand you have the $$ to shoot the parts cannon at it but what would you learn? It might be satisfying to diagnose and repair the first time. Buying cheap components your going to get good at changing them.

Test first repair or replace second.

Click to expand...

My thought process was I remove battery, battery box and most of the wires to get to starter...I could swap battery and cables at same time. I always have bad luck so I figure Murphy’s law strikes and a few months after starter...battery dies...few months later I have wiring issues. Lol. My issue with taking out starter and rebuilding that one; its my daily driver and I suppose I could do it all on a weekend but with it being in the teens I wanted to be able to swap it out and be done and not chance having it disabled for work come Monday. Or risk getting stranded after it sits in airport employee parking when I can’t start it.

Seems to me for a core charge it would be worth just having a second starter..then I could rebuild that one taking my time. I’ve watched some video on how to rebuild and it doesn’t seem too tough...or as was mentioned earlier I take it somewhere that does it everyday.

As mentioned above I can just inspect the cables and use contact cleaner and sandpaper to clean those up. The car spent 90% of its life in AZ so I would doubt the cables are an issue. So that saves me $155+. But I don’t know what else it would be besides battery or starter that is causing it to take 10 seconds to start when it’s 8-10 degrees. I’ve noticed it getting worse in the 2 years I’ve had it. Oreillys said battery wasn’t real strong (based on CCAs) but it’s “fine”. Stray led me to believe it’s a starter issue.

Is there a way to test the starter? I read you can read starter rpm in VCDS (which I have). But I’d have to do that when it’s cold...and even then it could be the battery causing that too no? I’m also going to use the trick I found that I can add a few seconds to glowplug time in VCDS. No codes so I think all my GPs are working.




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So in this case I would pay $92.40 more to keep my old one. Well less than that as I’d have to pay to ship it.

$268.87 total

I’d have to shop around to see if I could find better.

I read VW also used/uses valeo starters? Bosch is better and the way to go?



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I understand about needing your car. Check out this thread for rebuilding.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=465001

There's nothing to say you can't buy an auto parts store starter or a junk yard starter and the rebuild kit. Test the new to you starter at the store. Yes even if it has a warranty. Purchase a rebuild kit. Remove starter and clean all your power and grounds. If the rebuild is a fail stick the jy starter in there or the parts store starter as you prefer. Jy starters 20 to 35. Even at the full serve jy. Or just pony up the cash for the factory rebuild and send them a jy one. If you wind up not using the parts store starter just return it.

Always pull your park brake up before turning the ignition ON....... that procedure turns off the Day-time Running lights. Wait until the interior light goes off too. I think it stays on for a few seconds even if the key is inserted and turned on.

AndyBees said:

Always pull your park brake up before turning the ignition ON....... that procedure turns off the Day-time Running lights. Wait until the interior light goes off too. I think it stays on for a few seconds even if the key is inserted and turned on.

Click to expand...

Oh yes always! I wait until the dinging is done which is after the GP/idiot light extinguishes. I’m gonna add a couple seconds via VCDS to help with a bit more GP time below 10F.




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ratkc135 said:

My starter has struggled some so far this winter...taking 7-10 seconds to start when it was around 5-8 degrees. Battery checks OK...not great...but descent.

So I don't get stranded (I'm an airline pilot that leaves this car in employee parking lot) I think I may just replace battery, starter and the cables (ground, battery to ALT, etc). Wanted to see if anyone has had good luck with this kit I found to replace the wiring:

http://innovativewiring.com/?page_id=5332

If you don't like this kit...any other kits out there? I could always buy wire..and make them...but a kit saves me some time. If you all like this kit...any idea what length cable I need? It has I think at least 3 options.


As well as this starter:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00T689...olid=2QNLW9LR3D9H3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Good reviews on amazon and for $68. Then what I'll do is rebuild the OE starter and have that as a backup...then I can always have a rebuilt one on hand.

Is it necessary to do the wiring? Probably not...I read that corrosion can cause some starting issues as well as battery and/or starter....but if I'm going to remove battery to get to starter...why not get some new cables in there..then finish off with a new battery. That way my starter/battery/cables are good to go for another 17+ years...lol.

Click to expand...

Replace battery if need be. How are you testing it?

Mongler98 said:

Replace battery if need be. How are you testing it?

Click to expand...

O’Reilly’s load test. It’s only when cold it struggles so it has to be battery and/or starter I assume...




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Also, keep your foot off the brake pedal .... brake lights come on even if the key is not in the ignition!

A draggy starter can mimic a weak battery. (Don't ask me how I know!)

If you are going to up grade cables you might want to consider these from here long ago.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=273859

I would start with those and ensure all connections are clean and tight and a new battery. You can then test from there if you need an alternator or starter (preferably OEM from one of our trusted vendors).

Lightflyer1 said:

If you are going to up grade cables you might want to consider these from here long ago.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=273859

I would start with those and ensure all connections are clean and tight and a new battery. You can then test from there if you need an alternator or starter (preferably OEM from one of our trusted vendors).

Click to expand...

That’s the same company I posted...found it in that thread you referenced.



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The glow plug pre-glow should last longer than what the light indicates. I always wait another 10 seconds after the gp light goes out before starting. I think the ALH has the same function.

JB05 said:

The glow plug pre-glow should last longer than what the light indicates. I always wait another 10 seconds after the gp light goes out before starting. I think the ALH has the same function.

Click to expand...

There are discrepancies from what I’ve read. Some say it stays on double the light...others say it’s ONLY when light is on. So not sure what the correct answer is...


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Starter & Cables

Personally I’d have things tested or even pay to have it properly diagnosed before I threw any parts at it AT ALL!


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ratkc135 said:

There are discrepancies from what I’ve read. Some say it stays on double the light...others say it’s ONLY when light is on. So not sure what the correct answer is...


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Click to expand...

They stay on quite a while after the squiggly goes off.

Ok, the only way you can test this your self, Charge it up 100% slowly over night. Now in the AM when its COLD COLD, put your key in and only turn on the head light for like 2 to 3 minutes. this takes whatever top charge is on the battery off and helps give you a very accurate reading.
Now put the volt meter in a place you can read it from the ignition and put it on 20v DC. Connect your probes on the battery and crank the engine for about 5 to 10 seconds. You want to see NO less then 10 volts on average after the first few cranks. 9.9 volts is what we call " going bad but good enough" 10.4 volts is good, 10.8 to 11 volts is like NEW or better. I personally have only ever seen 10.6 volts but thats because im testing old stuff.
This is the quick and dirty way to tell if its good. Also test the amp draw on the starter while your at it. should be 100-150 range, Anything over that and your drawing too much current because the starter is having issues turning due to wear and age or resistance in the motor or gears. AKA, you see 250 amps and your starter is TOAST. It also depends on the volts. If you have less volts, you will draw higher amps to turn it he same rotations.
This is not a tell all to be all definitive way to say your starter or your battery needs replacing or to tell you whats going on, but it gives you enough information to rule out things that are not bad or are bad.
You should test the amp draw on your glow plug harness and making sure that the glow plugs are working. When you have a good battery, they get nice and hot and the car starts MUCH better.
Its probably your battery. Remember that they die in the summer but you only find out in the winter!

So...I now have more data...lol

-5 this morning: no start

I did two cycles of GP...foot off brake. It was turning over...just not real fast. So I think I'll try to replace battery. If that works; great. If not then it's either got to be starter and/or cables to/from battery/starter/ground. But since it's dead in the water right now I have little choice....

I also ordered a frostheater....read a lot of good things on the forums here about that system....that will help too....albeit it won't when I'm on a trip and my car is in the airport employee lot for days...

Replace with a fully recharged new battery and clean all connections. I would bet that fixes your issues. A Frostheater is a good idea in below freezing climates as well.

Lightflyer1 said:

Replace with a fully recharged new battery and clean all connections. I would bet that fixes your issues. A Frostheater is a good idea in below freezing climates as well.

Click to expand...

It did! New battery in and cleaned connections and after 3-4 seconds she fired up. Was around 7 degrees at that point.

Hope to get frost heater installed tomorrow or wed.



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The real test will be when it’s -5 again (or colder).


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I would almost bet if you had removed the battery and fully charged it (maybe desulfate it too) and cleaned all the connections it would have worked too. Lots of issues are caused by bad connections.