www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Jetta Sedan (~ 2011+)

VW MKVI-A6 Jetta Sedan (~ 2011+) Discussions area for the MkVI (2011+) Jetta sedan. This model was originally codenamed NCS (New Compact Sedan).

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 27th, 2016, 21:32   #1
16vjohn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Default Which TDI is "better" the EA189 or the EA288?

I've got one of each, and by laws the days are finally drawing near when it'll be time to send one back to VW. I've been reading about the differences for a year, but I'm still at an impasse. I was hoping for some input from the forums (ahem... Oilhammer ) to help me make my decision.

Balance shafts - I give this one to the EA288. The placement and design leads me to believe they will be more effective and reliable. Possibly easier to delete if necessary as they lack integration with the oil pump, unlike the EA189

Oil pump - I give this one to the EA189 for simplicity's sake. Variable anything from VAG has taught me to be cautious. That, and the RUBBER BELT IN OIL present on the EA288.... Vacuum and oil seems like a lot of work for that tiny belt to do for the "life" of the engine. Unless that "life" is at 62k and on the side of the road.

Water pump - Another one for the EA189 for simplicity as well. I can certainly see a 288 on the side of the road, overheated due to the damper getting stuck in the extended position. Worse, some EA288 cars don't even have a coolant temperature gauge.

Turbocharger - The EA189 in my Passat now has a warranty to 100k. The 288's ends at 60k with the "lubricated parts" warranty.

Oil filter and intercooler - Both engines have a water/air intercooler, so icing isn't an issue. However, the 189 in the Passat has an oil filter accessible from the top in a much more convenient place.

Fuel system - both use solenoid injectors and seem to be more resistant to failure compared to the piezo cousins.

Fuel Efficiency - My experience is that the EA288 is much easier to make it to big mileage. The 189 will do 48mpg, but it takes some work. The 288 will do it if I simply drive slower than 75mph. There's no doubt the 288 is more efficient.

In the end, I just see a lack of discussion and enthusiasm for the late model cars. And while they're no ALH, they sure are hard to replace with any other type of car on all the key points. I still love the cars for all the same reasons I bought them. But, one has to go.
__________________
16' Fusion Energi // 12' Honda Odyssey
Retired: 15' Jetta TDI 45k // 13' Passat 22k, Buyback // 01' Jetta TDI 177k // 98' Jetta TDI 291k // 00' Jetta TDI 240k // 91' 300D 2.5T // 90' Jetta TD

Last edited by 16vjohn; November 27th, 2016 at 21:36.
16vjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2016, 22:34   #2
Sunnyb
Veteran Member
 
Sunnyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MI
TDI(s): 2015 GSW
Default

aah keep the newer engine and why is it better if you drive slower then 75?
Sunnyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2016, 22:45   #3
16vjohn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Default

Fuel efficiency... zero issues breaking 50mpg if I drive 75 or less. Pretty amazing. Of course, Utah valley is pretty flat. It does get a little less if I leave the valley. The Passat is heavier, but it has a lower drag coefficient... so, I think it's apples to apples saying the EA288 is more efficient.
__________________
16' Fusion Energi // 12' Honda Odyssey
Retired: 15' Jetta TDI 45k // 13' Passat 22k, Buyback // 01' Jetta TDI 177k // 98' Jetta TDI 291k // 00' Jetta TDI 240k // 91' 300D 2.5T // 90' Jetta TD
16vjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2016, 05:05   #4
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

I'd keep 'em both.

But to your point, it is really tough to evaluate the CVCA engine since it is JUST in the 2015s, and there really is not much track record on them.

The CKRA is a sort of mutt between the earlier CBEA/CJAA and the later CKRA. But again, not much of a track record on those either, as far as long term.

I think it is just as much the car it is bolted into (in your case) as the engine itself. Given the choice between an NCS Jetta and an NMS Passat, I'd take the Passat...regardless of engine.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2016, 07:44   #5
16vjohn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
I'd keep 'em both.


This is the answer my wife doesn't want. Haha. I fully agree with you on the car, regardless of the engine. The Passat has better fluid capacities, more room, much more usable trunk and back seat, more features, and I think it looks better. I'm certainly inclined to keep both now that I know I won't be able to get a new one.
__________________
16' Fusion Energi // 12' Honda Odyssey
Retired: 15' Jetta TDI 45k // 13' Passat 22k, Buyback // 01' Jetta TDI 177k // 98' Jetta TDI 291k // 00' Jetta TDI 240k // 91' 300D 2.5T // 90' Jetta TD
16vjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2018, 10:56   #6
Syncrogreg
Default

I'm looking at it right now and was confused about that solenoid on the water pump for a minute.
I wonder if it s a clutch that disconnect when the engine is cold so water warms up quicker... And internally if it is pumping water if there is no juice of it's not connected ??


I think there was an explanatory diagram of the coolant from VW somewhere when cold and when warm.

Ciao!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16vjohn View Post
I've got one of each, and by laws the days are finally drawing near when it'll be time to send one back to VW. I've been reading about the differences for a year, but I'm still at an impasse. I was hoping for some input from the forums (ahem... Oilhammer ) to help me make my decision.

Balance shafts - I give this one to the EA288. The placement and design leads me to believe they will be more effective and reliable. Possibly easier to delete if necessary as they lack integration with the oil pump, unlike the EA189

Oil pump - I give this one to the EA189 for simplicity's sake. Variable anything from VAG has taught me to be cautious. That, and the RUBBER BELT IN OIL present on the EA288.... Vacuum and oil seems like a lot of work for that tiny belt to do for the "life" of the engine. Unless that "life" is at 62k and on the side of the road.

Water pump - Another one for the EA189 for simplicity as well. I can certainly see a 288 on the side of the road, overheated due to the damper getting stuck in the extended position. Worse, some EA288 cars don't even have a coolant temperature gauge.

Turbocharger - The EA189 in my Passat now has a warranty to 100k. The 288's ends at 60k with the "lubricated parts" warranty.

Oil filter and intercooler - Both engines have a water/air intercooler, so icing isn't an issue. However, the 189 in the Passat has an oil filter accessible from the top in a much more convenient place.

Fuel system - both use solenoid injectors and seem to be more resistant to failure compared to the piezo cousins.

Fuel Efficiency - My experience is that the EA288 is much easier to make it to big mileage. The 189 will do 48mpg, but it takes some work. The 288 will do it if I simply drive slower than 75mph. There's no doubt the 288 is more efficient.

In the end, I just see a lack of discussion and enthusiasm for the late model cars. And while they're no ALH, they sure are hard to replace with any other type of car on all the key points. I still love the cars for all the same reasons I bought them. But, one has to go.
Syncrogreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2018, 11:13   #7
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

It is a duty cycled affair that changes how much volume the pump moves. On some engines, it is vacuum operated with a duty cycled solenoid. But on these, it is directly on the pump. Little collar moves to uncover the impeller vanes.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 12th, 2018, 11:39   #8
kjclow
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Fuel Economy: 55 max / 44 avg on beetle ~37 on JSW
Default

Since you have to get rid of one, I'd keep the Passat for the size and ride reasons you mentioned.
__________________
2010 silver/black JSW TDI with DSG, 2011 red Golf TDI with dsg, 2003 red/gray Passat 1.8l gasser
kjclow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2018, 07:58   #9
kjclow
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Fuel Economy: 55 max / 44 avg on beetle ~37 on JSW
Default

Gee, I'm sorry I pooped in your cheerios this morning.
__________________
2010 silver/black JSW TDI with DSG, 2011 red Golf TDI with dsg, 2003 red/gray Passat 1.8l gasser
kjclow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2018, 11:55   #10
tdiinsc
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Greenville, SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16vjohn View Post
Fuel efficiency... zero issues breaking 50mpg if I drive 75 or less. Pretty amazing. Of course, Utah valley is pretty flat. It does get a little less if I leave the valley. The Passat is heavier, but it has a lower drag coefficient... so, I think it's apples to apples saying the EA288 is more efficient.
I get better fuel economy than my wifes sportwagen, even when i was not tuned (aftermarket), so not sure i buy that argument. With the green diesel tune i easily surpass. That being said, but by TDI standards none of our cars are fully broken in i guess...her car with 20k miles and mine with 31k.

EDIT...i guess my point doesnt matter either. Oh well. Let this be a lesson, you can get great fuel efficiency out of the E189 and dont let anyone tell you any different!

Last edited by tdiinsc; September 13th, 2018 at 12:02.
tdiinsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2018, 20:13   #11
Rodmiser
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Missouri Kansas City:(
Fuel Economy: sorry last tank 44.2 MPG
Default

At 45,000 miles I'll have to wait and find out.
__________________
Rodmiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 20th, 2018, 09:16   #12
CTD_Chevrolet
Veteran Member
 
CTD_Chevrolet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montana
Fuel Economy: 2015:46 Highway 26 City - 2002: 42 Highway 28 City
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncrogreg View Post
I think there was an explanatory diagram of the coolant from VW somewhere when cold and when warm.
Ciao!
http://pics3.tdiclub.com/data/517/820433_EA288.pdf

Page 18-26ish here.
__________________
'15 Jetta S DSG - New old stock, 30% tint, 1 sticker
'02 Jetta 5 spd - 17/22, Race 520s, 11mm pump, ARP studs, 3" straight pipe, SBC Stage 2 Endurance w/secret sauce plate and 14lb SMF, Kerma Tuning, tons of stickers
'95 Chevy K2500 Brodozer - P Pump Cummins, NV4500, Dana 60, most stickers
CTD_Chevrolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it an "Intercooler", "Charge Air Cooler", or "Aftercooler"? PDJetta General Automotive 12 July 22nd, 2017 00:11
2012 "NMS" Passat TDi does not have the same options as the Euro "B7" counterpart? RevTDi VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) 16 October 16th, 2013 09:26
Apparently the 2012 Golf TDI will now have "Seattle" Alloys instead of "Salamanca"? TDInewbee VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) 3 July 26th, 2011 13:10
Got the all-too-common P0741 "Torque Converter Clutch" code on my "new" B5.5 TDI FolksWaggin VW B5 Passat TDIs 12 March 25th, 2011 18:18
"Mileage" vs. "MPG" vs. "Mile range" vs. "Miles per tank" boyelectric TDI Fuel Economy 33 August 19th, 2002 07:06


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15629 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 115.20 Kb. compressed to 97.57 Kb. by saving 17.63 Kb. (15.31%)]