VW Requirements for Regeneration

MM STL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2009 Jetta
I purchased my 2009 Jetta TDI brand new and it now has 49k miles. I opted for the modification as soon as it was available. At the end of November 2017, the check engine light came on with P2002 (DPF) code. The dealer didn't find any problems and forced a regen. All was well until the same situation happened this month. The dealer contacted VW as he couldn't find any problems other than a regen was needed. VW then instructed that I MUST drive "50+ miles at a time, at highway speeds, at least once per month" to create a regeneration. The dealer stated VW didn't want to cover this visit under the warranty but the dealer was going to "write it off" because they were unaware of this requirement also. Any one else had this situation? My Jetta would regen frequently before the modification. My driving habits haven't changed. I live in St. Louis where I would have to drive out of the metro area to get in 50 miles at a time!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Unfortunately, the post-mod fuel management is going to mean the car will use more fuel, so it will make more particle matter, which means the DPF will have to work more to get the job done.

You have such low mileage for a nine year old car, especially a TDI, it makes me think you are probably not the best match for the car. DPF equipped diesels like long highway drives, just the way it is.

I would look into an OBD-compliant tune/delete if you want to continue to drive your car in the city. Or trade it off for a gasoline fueled car, electric car, or an older pre-DPF TDI.

Your driving habits may have been OK before, since the car was "cheating" it was not using as much fuel. So the passive DPF regens were probably just fine. Now it isn't enough, and a blast down the highway is what is needed.

Some folks use some sort of engine data monitor to know when a regen is needed, or is happening, and adjust their driving habits accordingly. Personally, I would not own a car that required THAT much of me. I'd modify it, or drive something else.
 
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leicaman

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Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
Unfortunately, the post-mod fuel management is going to mean the car will use more fuel, so it will make more particle matter, which means the DPF will have to work more to get the job done.
You have such low mileage for a nine year old car, especially a TDI, it makes me think you are probably not the best match for the car. DPF equipped diesels like long highway drives, just the way it is.
I would look into an OBD-compliant tune/delete if you want to continue to drive your car in the city. Or trade it off for a gasoline fueled car, electric car, or an older pre-DPF TDI.
Your driving habits may have been OK before, since the car was "cheating" it was not using as much fuel. So the passive DPF regens were probably just fine. Now it isn't enough, and a blast down the highway is what is needed.
Some folks use some sort of engine data monitor to know when a regen is needed, or is happening, and adjust their driving habits accordingly. Personally, I would not own a car that required THAT much of me. I'd modify it, or drive something else.
Indeed. I drive my 2015 Golf TDI for work and often the company sends me on a job that results in a 100 plus mile trip. TDI, particularly the newer ones, need a good run on the highway. I've only had the dpf idiot light come on once, to remind me to go on the road. It was an excuse for me to travel 30 miles to a truck stop that has a really good bakery. ;)
 

MM STL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2009 Jetta
Thanks for the info! I poured over each piece of information that was released by VW prior to choosing modification vs buy back and would not have chosen to keep the Jetta if I knew this was the case. I feel duped, again.

Another question: Should i wait until the CEL comes on, then take a long drive. Would that cause any long term damage? I'd hate for VW to come back and say it wasn't covered under warranty.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Well to be fair, nobody at the dealer (and likely no one at Volkswagen in this country) really could have known for sure what if any bad could come from the fix.

Although, while I am no scientist, I do understand the basics of NOx enough to know that in order to reduce it, you need to take away more free oxygen in the intake air charge, and the only way to do that is to run even more EGR, and use more fuel, and that means the DPF gets used more. So, unless they were going to retrofit SCR on to your car, there really is no other way. Bound to happen.

You can proactively drive the car down the highway once in a while, weekends or whatever (I drive 100 miles a day myself), and hope it gets the DPF happy. It most likely will. But, if you want a little better information to arm yourself with, a data monitor like a Scangauge or similar, will help out. That way at least you will KNOW when and if a trip is in order. You may also find that changing how you drive right now will help, like using a lower gear than you otherwise would for instance.
 

Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
You have been short tripping the car since new and gotten away with it. They don't like doing this at all. With the new fix software you got caught finally. You will have to take an active role in dpf regens if you want to keep it healthy. The key to it all is knowing when a regen is coming due and making driving allowances for it. I use an app that tells me this info but it seems it is now unsupported and doesn't support your engine type. Torque another app has made some progress in this regard and may help you monitor what is happening.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=464119

Then there is the old brute force method of just taking long drives and hoping a regen happens while you are out there.

You really bought the wrong car for your driving habits. It may be better to consider another car if possible. Good luck!

Mine happen about every 250 +/- miles, so you will need a drive somewhere in that ball park to regen the dpf every time.
 

STLTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
2017 GTI SE
I'm somewhat in the same boat. About 16 days of the month my TDI takes a short 10 mile round trip on side roads. 8-10 days it stays garaged. I make it a point to take at least a 50 mile round trip on the hwy twice a month if it doesn't happen in my normal travels. Drive out to Hermann and get some sausages!

I know a gasoline car might be better, but I take 2-3 1800 mile round trips per year where the cruising range is my priority ...and... I just love diesels.
 
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jesus_man

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Nov 9, 2005
Location
PNW
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2005 Jetta (gone), 2002 Passat (gone), 2009 JSW (VW bought), 2010 JSW
We've learned this with another brand of German car, new enough to need DEF. We (my wife) was babying the car, trying to eek out all the MPG's. In the end, this backfired with strange emissions related issues. So after talking to some enthusiasts, we changed our driving habits and the car has been great since. I've also added in a fuel treatment regime and we're enjoying the best fuel mileage we've ever gotten. We don't perform the "Italian tuneup" every day, but I tell her that at least once a week, after the engine is warmed up drop it into sport mode and do a couple 0-60 dashes. And when I get the chance to drive it, I drive it pretty hard.

Gassers are more lenient for short commutes, but they will still gum up just the same.

Just make it a point to take the car outside the city somewhere. Do some site seeing once or twice a month. It'll be nice for you and the car!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I am local to some of you guys, if you need someone who likes caring for these cars for general service please feel free to contact me.

Some folks come from much further.... like Wisconsin even ;)
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
I am local to some of you guys, if you need someone who likes caring for these cars for general service please feel free to contact me.
Some folks come from much further.... like Wisconsin even ;)
Yes Brian, you are on my short list. You will be doing my timing belt on my Golf when the time arrives.
 

MM STL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2009 Jetta
Well, everyone, this changes things. I decided to drive to Waterloo, IL- about 25 miles from my home. I was passing a semi at 70 mph when the CEL came on! Now it's only been 120 miles and 12 days since I was last at the dealer (see first message). It was the P2002 code again. Another contact with VW corporate tech ensued and I have an appointment to change out the converter, under warranty. Obviously, it's not JUST my driving habits.
 

SilverGhost

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Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
 

fastalan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Location
Richmond BC
TDI
2010 Golf TDI Wagon
P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
Remember the OP has the 2009 model year so his car also received a brand new DPF. All his short trips before fix on the original DPF didn't cause any CEL.

It is probably that the OP continues to drive in a manner that is unsuitable for the new DPF/software, thus triggering multiple P2002 CEL OR he simply received a bad set of DPF/EGR filter.
 
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Steve Addy

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Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
P2002 Particulate Trap Bank 1 Efficiency Below Threshold. That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you. It's not asking for a regen, its saying the regen is not effective. I would hazard a guess if you looked inside the substrate is cracked.

Jason
That looks to me like all you short trips from before the modification have come back to bite you.
Looks to me like we have a bot here...
 

MonkeyWrench

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Location
Colorado
TDI
2012 JSW TDi
Wow, glad I signed in and read this thread today. I was seriously thinking about buying an 09 sportwagen for sale here in Denver. I test drove the car a month ago, it had a CEL, I pulled the code - I don't remember now what the code was, but I read through these pages and thought it seemed like the dpf. The car is still for sale... really cheap... so I keep thinking maybe I should go buy it... now I'm thinking that's a really bad idea. http://www.thesharpestrides.com/vehicle.cfm?vehicleID=224929605&-2009-Volkswagen-Jetta
 

jesus_man

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Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Location
PNW
TDI
2005 Jetta (gone), 2002 Passat (gone), 2009 JSW (VW bought), 2010 JSW
That car came up in my searches as well. I couldn't get past the well worn interior. The price has dropped a lot since I was looking just a month ago!

Is there an easy way to tell what phase has been completed? I'll start a new thread for my new car, but have some questions.
 

SilverGhost

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Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Phase 1 of the "fix" is a software reflash only. DPF and CAT replacement are part of Phase 2.
Sorry, I screwed up in my original post. OP has 2009 so the replacement DPF is setting that DTC.

2009 gets a new DPF because NOX cat has to be cut off to be replaced. 2010 up to 2014 the NOX cat unbolts to be replaced so does NOT get a DPF.

2015 have new engine and Phase 1 get flash only, Phase 2 is parts replacement.

Jason
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
I am local to some of you guys, if you need someone who likes caring for these cars for general service please feel free to contact me.
Some folks come from much further.... like Wisconsin even ;)
Oilhammer, is it safe to assume you are equally comfortable working on Merc BlueTecs? I have a 2014 GLK that won't be in warranty for much longer. I have a trusted shop here for stuff like brakes and oil changes, but anything more important (like DPF) I'd like to have a real Pro take care of when needed.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I won't consider myself an MB expert by any stretch, but I am not afraid of them and do my best. Learning more all the time, especially since I bought a Sprinter last year.
 

MM STL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2009 Jetta
Still happening.

on 3/6/18 the dealer found the wrong gaskets were used by the technician during the modification. We all thought replacement would solve the problem. I'd noticed regens happening shortly thereafter and all was well. I've been driving the car "as recommended" on some longer trips (50+ miles) and two days ago I was driving to hike in a state park when the CEL came back on! It's only been 550 miles on the odometer. I've noticed the CEL has come on when I do a hard acceleration, like when passing or accelerate on a steep hill.

So, it's no longer my driving habits.
 

SilverGhost

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Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
I dug a little more into the cars we have come in with codes like that. More often than not there is an air leak or vacuum hose connection that is causing a marginal condition. ANYTHING that screws up the ECM's control over air flow will cause DPF regen problems.

Jason
 

jesus_man

Veteran Member
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Nov 9, 2005
Location
PNW
TDI
2005 Jetta (gone), 2002 Passat (gone), 2009 JSW (VW bought), 2010 JSW
I'm hoping Jason is on the mark, but unfortunately, undoing the build-up of gunk caused from not running the car for long periods is going to take some time. And in actuality, not completely possible without tearing down the engine and cleaning it all out. But driving it for longer periods of time and perhaps some proven additives to both fuel and oil might help the process.

German tune-ups, although not as popular as the version from the Italians, is still a good way to keep things cleaned up on the interior of a healthy motor.
 

MM STL

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2009 Jetta
Thanks Jason, that's something to consider. All the tests that the VW tech line advised the dealership to do today came out perfectly fine (as they have each time). My case has been elevated to a "level 2" and a field technician will be coming to St. Louis on Tuesday 5/1 to review the case and test my car. They're performing a regen today so I can drive the car over the weekend.
 

KITEWAGON

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Seacoast, NH
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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
I assume that regens can be triggered with VCDS (if necessary) to avoid trips to the dealer....yes?
 

SilverGhost

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Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
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'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
A cracked charge air pipe or kinked vacuum hose would be an easy find. But there could be a much harder to find issue like a rolled or damaged seal in one of the many connections, some debris or other reason a leak is happening INTERNALLY, or a sensor sending faulty info that is still trusted by ECM as correct.

Jason
 
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