Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

2micron · Jan 21, 2013

Shaft said:
2Micron, thats alot of water. I am noticing my car choking then a pile steam billows out at highway speeds. Its happened a few times. I am booking the car into the dealer to get this done. Anyone know if there is a different TSB # for the Canadian cars? I gave him what's listed here at the top of this sticky, but he couldn't find it in the database.

Hello shaft,
Sounds like you have an accumulation of water in your lower hose, passenger side. Does the choking and steam come after a short, quick boost?
I can only suggest to have your trusted dealer remove the belly pan and remove and inspect the lower hose.
This would be well worth the one hour shop rate, documentation for future problems and a piece of mind for you.
This proactive measure may just help the aggravation of a no start!
I am not sure about the TSB number being any different for Canadians.
Hope this helps!
All the best,

Shaft · Jan 21, 2013

2micron said:
Hello shaft,
Sounds like you have an accumulation of water in your lower hose, passenger side. Does the choking and steam come after a short, quick boost?
I can only suggest to have your trusted dealer remove the belly pan and remove and inspect the lower hose.
This would be well worth the one hour shop rate, documentation for future problems and a piece of mind for you.
This proactive measure may just help the aggravation of a no start!
I am not sure about the TSB number being any different for Canadians.
Hope this helps!
All the best,

2Micron, the first time I noticed it was WOT to overtake and the car just choked hard at highway speeds, so hard that I almost got rear-ended.
All I could see out of my rear view was smoke/steam. So I kept an eye, between shifts, stop and go, I was feeling slight hesitation like a total loss of power then a pile of steam. So I guess she's taking mouth fulls of water.

My car is well within warranty. 22k on her. Will this TSB fix this issue?

PlaneCrazy · Jan 22, 2013

Shaft said:
2Micron, the first time I noticed it was WOT to overtake and the car just choked hard at highway speeds, so hard that I almost got rear-ended.
All I could see out of my rear view was smoke/steam. So I kept an eye, between shifts, stop and go, I was feeling slight hesitation like a total loss of power then a pile of steam. So I guess she's taking mouth fulls of water.

My car is well within warranty. 22k on her. Will this TSB fix this issue?

In addition to the hard starts that also happened to me. Hasn't happened since the TSB fix. Fingers crossed...

cmeller · Jan 22, 2013

I have a 2010 JSW with 50K on it and on my commute to work this morning (0 degrees / Chicagoland) I got a flashing glow plug light with a service engine warning along with a slight drop in power. I drove it to the nearest dealer and was told that it's the intercooler being completely frozen up.

Was offered a bypass install that would be $1100 for the part but I thought I would let them keep it in the heated garage overnight and see if the problem goes away tomorrow. My thought is I will have the part installed if this is an ongoing issue.

Wasn't able to read all the previous posts (228 pages) so I wasn't sure if this was the correct approach or if I will be causing more damage.

thoughts?

Shaft · Jan 22, 2013

PlaneCrazy said:
In addition to the hard starts that also happened to me. Hasn't happened since the TSB fix. Fingers crossed...

How long have you had the "fix"?

pknopp · Jan 22, 2013

cmeller said:
I have a 2010 JSW with 50K on it and on my commute to work this morning (0 degrees / Chicagoland) I got a flashing glow plug light with a service engine warning along with a slight drop in power. I drove it to the nearest dealer and was told that it's the intercooler being completely frozen up.

Was offered a bypass install that would be $1100 for the part but I thought I would let them keep it in the heated garage overnight and see if the problem goes away tomorrow. My thought is I will have the part installed if this is an ongoing issue.

Wasn't able to read all the previous posts (228 pages) so I wasn't sure if this was the correct approach or if I will be causing more damage.

thoughts?

You won't be causing more damage. Make sure they completely drain it after it thaws though.

There are a few avenue's you can take. VW's official solution is the kit. If I was you and after reading through at least a portion of this thread you decide to go that route, push for VW to at the very least picking up a part of the cost. After reading through this thread you will understand why.

Call the customer assistant number yourself if you have to.

You should find posts by 2microns and his solution. Without question if I have problems and I am told I am going to have to pick up any of the costs I will go the same route he did.

Loafing · Jan 22, 2013

Plumbing Reversed

csandGOLF said:
I wish you the best of luck. I have never had any warning lights come on in my experience.

Good news about my post-cold weather IC mod today. I was told that some tubes had been reversed causing warning lights to show & produce that one hard start (by water accumulation I assume) that prompted me to see VW and that my problems have been resolved.

Am not familiar with how the plumbing works so can only hope this is the end of it!!!

Does anyone know how the cold weather IC kit works? Does it reduce EGR gas circulation (hence water) into intake stream under certain crankcase pressures?

My service report stated:"Fault found for G581 Turbo Wastegate Sensor. Checked for TB, found one that directly applies 2026771/1. Checked vacuum routing as per TB for intercooler recently installed. Found hoses #3 and #1 installed backwards."

This was corrected, no charge. Given there is a TB, I am guessing the problem is well known....

Samcar222 · Jan 22, 2013

I too would love a detailed explanation of how the vacuum hose IC kit works, if anyone knows well.

DubFamily · Jan 23, 2013

Had a hard start yesterday afternoon; guessing it's the IC icing but can't confirm yet.

I got ready to leave work about 4pm; car is garaged at home and at work. When I left for work yesterday morning it was about 25 degrees; and my drive is ~1.5 hours so plenty of time for water build-up...

Anyway, I went to leave, started the car after the GP light went out, and let it sit for about 30 seconds or so as I always do before leaving. Right as I put it in gear it started to run rough, then it sputtered a bit and poured out some white smoke from the tailpipes. I figured it was water, engine felt like it was taking a couple little sips; so I let it keep idling. At that point it stalled out and wouldn't turn over so I left it alone and let it sit for about 5 minutes.

After 5 minutes, it started back up but ran really rough for about 5-10 and every now and then it would let out another puff of white smoke...

Today should be very similar to yesterday as far as conditions go, so I'll see if it starts doing it again. If so I'll have it towed.

Loafing · Jan 23, 2013

DubFamily said:
Had a hard start yesterday afternoon; guessing it's the IC icing but can't confirm yet.

I got ready to leave work about 4pm; car is garaged at home and at work. When I left for work yesterday morning it was about 25 degrees; and my drive is ~1.5 hours so plenty of time for water build-up...

Anyway, I went to leave, started the car after the GP light went out, and let it sit for about 30 seconds or so as I always do before leaving. Right as I put it in gear it started to run rough, then it sputtered a bit and poured out some white smoke from the tailpipes. I figured it was water, engine felt like it was taking a couple little sips; so I let it keep idling. At that point it stalled out and wouldn't turn over so I left it alone and let it sit for about 5 minutes.

After 5 minutes, it started back up but ran really rough for about 5-10 and every now and then it would let out another puff of white smoke...

Today should be very similar to yesterday as far as conditions go, so I'll see if it starts doing it again. If so I'll have it towed.

I think it's about water accumulation in time. My incident occurred about half way between services and on a (relatively) warm day (5C,41F). A couple of days before, it was colder & I drove about 70km through snow & blizzard on the QEW & wonder if that brought water accumulation to critical....

flyboy320 · Jan 23, 2013

With the cold weather here in the GTA and after driving for about an hour in the cold (-10c to -15c) I thought I should check my intercooler hose. Only drained about a teaspoon of water/sludge from the hose. I do have the front grill almost completely closed off and the air intake removed from the front air scoop so it's drawing in engine compartment air which should be a few degrees warmer then outside, maybe that's helping....who knows.

Still wanting to install 2micron's kit thought

PlaneCrazy · Jan 23, 2013

flyboy320 said:
With the cold weather here in the GTA and after driving for about an hour in the cold (-10c to -15c) I thought I should check my intercooler hose. Only drained about a teaspoon of water/sludge from the hose. I do have the front grill almost completely closed off and the air intake removed from the front air scoop so it's drawing in engine compartment air which should be a few degrees warmer then outside, maybe that's helping....who knows.

Still wanting to install 2micron's kit thought

After it happened to me a couple of times and before my kit was installed I got into the habit of driving in 5th all the time on the highway (and a gear lower everywhere else) and trying to keep RPMs at or above 2000. No other mods. I can't say if it helped, I can only say I had no more incidents after that.

Dozenspeed · Jan 23, 2013

I understand I have a different model but the same motor.

I drove mine all last winter in ignorant bliss of this issue. Now I'm paranoid as hell about it. I'm keen on some sort of assistance-to-the-problem mod like 2micron's.

As you can discern I have 99k+ miles on my 2011 CR 2.0. Driven an average of (very) roughly 165 miles a day for nearly 600 days. St. Louis MO is no stranger to high humidity and drastic temp/weather swings. Only maybe 3 times has the car ever hiccuped, and one of those required a second start and some rough idling. Did not notice steam or think much else of it.

Currently it has about 700 miles and 4-5 heat cycles since it was last above freezing here. Today is supposed to hit near 40F. Currently 14F.

Debating on letting it thaw first or get her running and warm for the crossing of the freeze point today........

pknopp · Jan 23, 2013

Dozenspeed:

If I was you and put 100k on the car with at worse perhaps a small hiccup, I would simply have the hose checked regularly at oil changes.

Dozenspeed · Jan 23, 2013

Well I took her out for 20 miles at 32-40 degrees F, did some WOTs towads the end, everything worked fine. She's going in to see the oilhammer this week, I'm sure he'll help me take a peek.

I should probably quit reading so much and accept that mine is above-average awesome for some reason.

I may be headed for disaster at some point but until then....

MonsterTDI09 · Jan 23, 2013

Dozenspeed said:
Well I took her out for 20 miles at 32-40 degrees F, did some WOTs towads the end, everything worked fine. She's going in to see the oilhammer this week, I'm sure he'll help me take a peek.

I should probably quit reading so much and accept that mine is above-average awesome for some reason. I may be headed for disaster at some point but until then....

You will have some water in I/C all the time.A WOT does help.

1953randy · Jan 23, 2013

Had the classic symptoms with my 10 sportwagon in the last month--1st trip to dealer had a "no symptoms showing" diagnosis---next time, I asked him to check for intercoolier icing. Turned out to be the problem and had the kit installed.
I also live in the St. Louis area and have a 50 mile commute. Been 10 days so far, and all is going well.

JBell · Jan 23, 2013

1953randy said:
Had the classic symptoms with my 10 sportwagon in the last month--1st trip to dealer had a "no symptoms showing" diagnosis---next time, I asked him to check for intercoolier icing. Turned out to be the problem and had the kit installed.
I also live in the St. Louis area and have a 50 mile commute. Been 10 days so far, and all is going well.

I'm near you and luckily haven't had any issues yet. Been kind of waiting for it to happen though. What symptoms did you have?

1953randy · Jan 24, 2013

It would crank over a few times then lock up, and not crank. Next try would crank better and longer and may start but stall out. Next attemp would start then run rough. eventually it would smooth out and be fine for a week or so. Dealer had "never heard of intercooler icing" but thats what it was. Fingers crossed, it has been ok since the kit was put in----10 days so far in cold, and humid conditions---

VeeDubTDI · Jan 24, 2013

Update: I moved the map over to Batchgeo... new link below.

Map results

Click me to report an intercooler icing issue!

torqueit · Jan 24, 2013

Has anyone noticed exceptionally poor mileage in very cold weather after their kit was installed?

I just took my first highway trip in really cold temps (~5F). My mileage was around 33 MPG for the trip. The same trip in warmer temps prior to the kit being installed was well over 45. Wondering if the intercooler kit might reduce efficiency in cold conditions.

PlaneCrazy · Jan 24, 2013

2010_Jetta_TDI said:
Has anyone noticed exceptionally poor mileage in very cold weather after their kit was installed?

I just took my first highway trip in really cold temps (~5F). My mileage was around 33 MPG for the trip. The same trip in warmer temps prior to the kit being installed was well over 45. Wondering if the intercooler kit might reduce efficiency in cold conditions.

Nope. Miserably cold weather will do that. It's been below -20C all week here. Been getting an average of about 39 mpg on my morning commute (6 L/100 km) with both our 2011 Golf hatch (kit), and 2013 Golf wagon (no kit). Normally in summer on the same drive I get about 52-53 mpg (4.5 L/100 km)

Steady 100 km/h, 104 km drive on the route I'm currently using, 3.5 km on streets with traffic lights

Pretty much what I would get under similar conditions last winter before the kit was installed at the end of february.

Cooper · Jan 25, 2013

Cold weather (single digits here) and the switch from LRR tires to winter tires takes it's toll on mileage.

TDiSkater · Jan 25, 2013

Driving home thinking, you know this is the perfect storm weather for intercooler icing (20 degrees, wet and driving on the highway). Yep, 5 minutes later BING Service Engine Now flashes and goes out. Didn't notice anything in performance. We'll see how start up goes Saturday morning. Come to think of it, I did notice this morning that it idled rough at start up for a few seconds. Great, another 6 weeks of this!

metalfabsteve · Jan 25, 2013

Hi all just want to know if this issue is prone to the 2013 model as well? Here's what happened to me last Tues. Jan 15. I left for work at 6:30 am -5C the car seemed to lack power leaving the driveway up a slight incline about 100 feet to the stop sign, then ran fine... left work at 9:00 am because I felt like crap still -5C on my 20k or so drive home I hit a regen cycle so I drove a little more till that was done then parked the car in the driveway till 4:00 pm when I had to go pick up my son from daycare +5C then I went to start it and it shuddered and stumbled then stalled hard. I tried to start it again it took a few cranks to get her going it ran rough once it going and it had no power going up to the stop sign like in the morning then it clears up. Since then it seems to idle rough when it is at full temp around 825rpm no check engine lights. This seems concerning to me since the car has 10,500k.

Dozenspeed · Jan 25, 2013

Mine was checked at the 100k mile service today. No excess water, no slime. Looks nominal to me.

I think the foam pipe insulation is helping. I drive long-ish heat cycles overnight in sub-freezing temps, and often daytime temps are above freezing.

sgoldste01 · Jan 26, 2013

metalfabsteve said:
Hi all just want to know if this issue is prone to the 2013 model as well?

Yes.

schultp · Jan 26, 2013

Dozenspeed said:
Mine was checked at the 100k mile service today. No excess water, no slime. Looks nominal to me. I think the foam pipe insulation is helping. I drive long-ish heat cycles overnight in sub-freezing temps, and often daytime temps are above freezing.

I read this thread in its entirety a few months back but don't recall the pipe insulation mod...can you elaborate?

Thanks.

Dozenspeed · Jan 26, 2013

schultp said:
I read this thread in its entirety a few months back but don't recall the pipe insulation mod...can you elaborate?

Thanks.

Check here.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=160835

I block just one when below freezing, and a second below 20F, leaving the 3rd most bottom open as well at the upper grille. Not sure those are the BEST spots but there you have it....

You can see I have just the top one in this pic....

schultp · Jan 26, 2013

Oh, I thought you were referring to using pipe insulation directly with the IC. I have used the pipe insulation in the grill of my MK3 for many years and am quite familiar with this method. But, now that I understand what you were referring to I still am not seeing how blocking the grill leads to reduced water in the IC system.

Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

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