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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old December 24th, 2010, 17:48   #196
nicklockard
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I am reading this thread with interest, though I do not drive one of these CR's. I think the hypothesis about aggressive low pressure EGR adding extra moisture into an already saturated air stream is correct. Then, that supersaturated air stream dumps out water as condensate ice inside the IC. Next, when the car sits still, the ice inside the IC melts because of heat soak effect and the IC is no longer being cooled. This condensate mixes with the natural oil that is always present in the intake tract of a turbodiesel making a water-in-oil emulsion, i.e. "snot".

If this is correct, I suspect Volkswagen could easily fix it by a reprogram of the ECU firmware to have less aggressive low-pressure EGR at cooler temperatures, along with some tweaks to boost pressure profiles.

I'm sorry for all of you encountering this issue. Often members who don't live in another's climate can't understand those unique aspects brought up by regional climate. I thought we got bad fog in the the PNW, but once I took a trip through West Virginia in later summer and it was insanely foggy. My Tdi was acting all kinds of freaky with electrical gremlins.

Good luck to all, and I fourth the notion of an IC cover as a near-term bandaid fix.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 06:04   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatespeed View Post

here is a fun conversion calculator:
www.howelllabs.com/dew_point_conversion.xls
Here is another good humidity calculator. You can also download a standalone Adobe Flash Player version. I haven't tried it out on the intercooler problem but it has produced good results for other purposes. You can even substitute different gases. I find it fascinating.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 17:30   #198
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Ford pickup trucks have had this "issue" for years.
There is a simple solution though, flog the crap out of the engine more frequently to keep moisture from building up in the intercooler.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 05:02   #199
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Sorry for not getting back sooner. I took mine in last wednesday to look for possible issues as last tuesday I had a no start issue like many here.

I told the service writer to look for stored codes, I didn't have a mil, and to contact the VW techline for their 2 cents (i had roosters paperwork), I was also 1000 miles away from my 30,000 service and I told them go for that if they vw warranty didn't let them bill cracking the IC. So they cracked the IC and told me "some" water came out, they cleaned the IC piping and performed the 30,000 service.

The kicker is the service writer mentions that there should be a revised IC coming out and we'll get a letter askig to come in and change it out. I imagine this letter/recall won't come out till spring, well after the time of year this is an issue.

I guess people who've had this issue, and it is and issue call up the VW customer line and put more pressure on them.

I did put on 650 miles on my car since the service, two trips of 250 miles at sub zero temps including the weather we saw on sunday night. I drove around in the snow a bit yesterday so if there's ice forming in the IC again it'll be a while maybe this Friday when the temps are up in the 40's
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Old December 29th, 2010, 21:06   #200
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Car will be going on Jan 3rd for the second service at 30,000km. Will have the indy shop do a complete IC check up....thanks for the posts and bringing this issue to the forefront....
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Old December 30th, 2010, 05:55   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicklockard View Post

If this is correct, I suspect Volkswagen could easily fix it by a reprogram of the ECU firmware to have less aggressive low-pressure EGR at cooler temperatures, along with some tweaks to boost pressure profiles.
The problem here is that the low pressure EGR is an important feature in achieving the low Nitrogen oxides the BIN5 standards required. That is why this is on the CR cars and not the PD's.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 06:25   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740GLE View Post

The kicker is the service writer mentions that there should be a revised IC coming out and we'll get a letter askig to come in and change it out. I imagine this letter/recall won't come out till spring, well after the time of year this is an issue.
Gretchen is at 17+ k miles. When I take her in for 20k, I will bring this up with the Service Person. Plus, I may send off an email as well mentioning this "issue" as well.

Now, inquiring minds would ask, if this is going to cover all cars or only ones where it gets cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey? I would expect this to cover all cars because you can't guarantee where they will be operated...and that is a lot of cars!

Now that the morning caffeine liquid is taking hold (Aldi German Roast), since this could be a latent driveability/safety issue, especially if you are driving and a slug of water goes and locks up engine at speed and you are on a freeway, this should be brought up to the NHTSA as well.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 07:18   #203
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Originally Posted by itchytweed View Post
Now that the morning caffeine liquid is taking hold (Aldi German Roast), since this could be a latent driveability/safety issue, especially if you are driving and a slug of water goes and locks up engine at speed and you are on a freeway, this should be brought up to the NHTSA as well.
I filed a complaint with NHTSA for exactly the above reason. Going into LIMP while driving is not safe. Safer than the engine quitting entirely, but still not safe. I was all the way left in heavy traffic, and I had to cross 4 lanes of traffic to my right all moving faster than me to get in a safer position on the highway. Since I was moving so slow, everyone was swinging right to go around me, and preventing me from moving over.

Now, I could have gone to the right faster if I was more aggressive about cutting people off, but I prefer not to drive like that. To get over safely, it took me almost 3 miles to get in a position where it would have been reasonable to shut it off, all with traffic speeding past me on my right....
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Old December 30th, 2010, 07:26   #204
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After installing my intake lastnight, i went ahead and took off the pass side IC pipe. There was some small amount of oil like the other pipe had, even less actaully. But there was nothing more then that, no goop, no snot, no green no brown.
I was supprized to say the least, although it has not been very cold here for our winter, i mean yesterday was almost 50, today is supposed to be 50. The lowest iv seen was 18F a couple of times and only in the morning.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 07:28   #205
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I would guess that the NHSTA considers limp mode an acceptable mode of operation to safely maneuver to the side of the road.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 08:05   #206
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Originally Posted by GraniteRooster View Post
I filed a complaint with NHTSA for exactly the above reason. Going into LIMP while driving is not safe. Safer than the engine quitting entirely, but still not safe. I was all the way left in heavy traffic, and I had to cross 4 lanes of traffic to my right all moving faster than me to get in a safer position on the highway. Since I was moving so slow, everyone was swinging right to go around me, and preventing me from moving over.

Now, I could have gone to the right faster if I was more aggressive about cutting people off, but I prefer not to drive like that. To get over safely, it took me almost 3 miles to get in a position where it would have been reasonable to shut it off, all with traffic speeding past me on my right....
Even with your 4-way's flashing, there is no real way of indicating which way you are trying to go. IMNSHO, 4-way's indicate a car in distress. Since we have all these "smart" cars now, this issue would be easy to fix. If you have the 4-ways on, and you turn on the directional switch, the brake light on that side should take over the directional duty. At least it would be somewhat of an indicator as to your intent of travel.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 17:26   #207
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Default And another IC cloogged up

I read through everything that there is to read about this issue... i live in Montreal and I am driving to Ottawa and back almost everyday (340km) and this in any weather. I had to do my 45k inspection today and of course I told the mechanic to have a look since i got a 'hic up' moment just 2 days ago after I had my car in a heated garage instead of outside as usual. According to the comments here it looked like the perfect conditions for the 'sludge build up' and it did.
The friendly mechanic took the time and showed me everything including the 1/2 cup full of sludge and he showed me his 'quick and dirty' solution to the problem until VW will has its official fix. He removed the connection hose between the air filter and the cold air intake box so the system get warmer air quicker. He even stated that he would bypass the intercooler completely to avoid the problem (??????????). The mechanic also confirmed that the sludge problem is a known issue amongst the dealer here in Montreal and there is no fix yet from VW...
So what do you guys think about his quick fix??

Thanks for any advice!!
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Old December 30th, 2010, 17:39   #208
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Maybe blocking the grill intake to the air cleaner would help. This way, air comes from inside the engine compartment.
I thought the air cleaner had a thermostat inside, so it would pull warm air from the engine. I remember that the MkV PD air cleaners suffered from lack of the thermostat working correctly.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 19:23   #209
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Default Another ICED UP INTERCOOLER

I went to my dealer this morning and the service manager told me that they gona remove the elbow that join the airbox to the upper air entry just above the rad, in order to prevent the intercooler to freeze. He said that VW had acknowledged that there is a problem with intercooler freezing-up and they decided to take that action until they found a solution. I got a 2010 jetta cr tdi and there was another customer with a 2010 golf cr tdi who was told the same thing.

A couple weeks ago my car didn't start right away one morning. It took three times to start and it run pretty rough for maybe 10 seconds. The first time I've tried to start the car it felt like the battery was down or the starter was draging and made a funny noise when it stopped, like a cluckkk. It wasn't cold that morning, around 2 celcius but the day before it was -18 celcius, and I've drove in a snow storm for about 8 hours. I don't know if it was a symptom of an almost frozen intercooler lines or other part of it. It hadn't done that since but the temperature has been pretty mild and steady, meaning no big differences from day to day. Hope it's not gona be a problem when travelling across Canada next week and going back to very cold weather in northern Alberta.

Never had that kind of problem with my old tdi 2001 so it's new for me since it's my first winter with my 2010.

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Old December 31st, 2010, 21:56   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilsandman View Post
I went to my dealer this morning and the service manager told me that they gona remove the elbow that join the airbox to the upper air entry just above the rad, in order to prevent the intercooler to freeze. He said that VW had acknowledged that there is a problem with intercooler freezing-up and they decided to take that action until they found a solution.
So if I understand you correctly, they are removing the 'snorkel' -- the cold air intake -- in order to make it a warm-air intake as a temporary fix. Sounds like something that all of us could consider doing during the wintertime, if we're worried about the intercooler freezing/condensation issue.

I only had one morning where the car started rough, and continued to run rough for ~30 seconds as I puttered down my side street. I blamed it on the fact that I accidentally hadn't waited for the glow plugs on that particular start-up (I jumped in the car and fired it right up, forgetting to wait for the plugs), but it could have been this condensation issue for all I know.

I have been doing occasional 'spirited' accelerations, so I hope that will keep things free-flowing.
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