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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old December 22nd, 2010, 18:03   #181
KraftwerkB6
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Correct me if im wrong here, but its not EGR in the intercooler pipes its the PCV system with the pipes. Why a lot of 1.8T and 2.0 people are putting catch cans on to "grab" some of the water-oil mixture so it could be collected there and then removed in the can.
I find it normal to have some oil substance or "goop" in the tubes. Almost all 1.8T/2.0T PCV system hoses and lines will have this same substance in them.

No time for passenger side intercooler pipe tonight, tried MDI update and failed. Will report tomorrow though, should be slower since day before Xmas weekend.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 19:47   #182
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I just picked my car up.

Removed, cleaned, reinstalled: Intercooler, Intake, throttle body, air sensor. Changed oil, oil filter, and filled with coolant.

Found code P0299 (Turbo underboost).

Dealers recommendation was to call VW customer car line with VIN # and complain until I get a long term solution. They said they felt bad that they had no long term solution to give me.

Car drove well on the way home.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 22:59   #183
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Originally Posted by Growler View Post
If it were me I would poke a hole in the lower intercooler connection that is small enough to not be a huge boost leak, but big enough to pass some fluid under boost. but thats just me.
I doubt a small hole will allow that oil mix to purge out...and too big of a hole is gonna cause a boost leak...I like my pressure side of the turbo to be air tight...
now if you bypassed the pcv system to not purge oil vapor into the IC then it might work...but I would still worry about a whistle or sqeel or maybe even boost codes from the boost leak/hole..
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 23:04   #184
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It's an intriguing idea, though. Maybe put a petcock/valve there, and once in a while open it and, while stationary, rev the engine up and maintain boost for a minute or so to blow the gook out.
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 23:10   #185
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It's an intriguing idea, though. Maybe put a petcock/valve there, and once in a while open it and, while stationary, rev the engine up and maintain boost for a minute or so to blow the gook out.
I dont think think the oil/water mix would drain out of a petcock either?? I dont have a boost gauge so I'm not sure you can free rev our cars and buid any boost?? most likly would have to take it for a drive and get some load on the engine to build enough boost for it to drain/push the mix out..?
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 17:20   #186
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If you're going to be under the car anyway, it's just as easy to open the hose and wipe the goop out of there.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 18:03   #187
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I'm with El Dobro on that one!
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 18:18   #188
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I've been following this discussion for a few days. Today I have a chance to check mine for water and sludge. I drove up onto a couple of 2" high by 10" wide stacked boards to get the front up higher for easy access to the bellypan bolts. The three large ones at the rear were very loose, and one was about to fall out! After removing the pan, I noticed some oil residue around the driver's side intercooler clamp. Has anyone noticed how loose that particular hose connection, the one with the quick-release snap ring is? Or is it just mine? I wonder how much if any boost leaks from that connection. Regardless, I removed it and cleaned the residual oil, most of which was on the outside.
On to the passenger side. Loosened the worm clamp, and a drop of water dripped out as I loosened the rubber hose. Found a flat pan and some paper towels to catch anything that came out, and removed it completely. Maybe a half ounce of water, and some residual greasy sludge but not much to worry about. I cleaned as much from the inside as I could reach and put it all back together. I feel better seeing this for myself.

Mileage as I did this was just over 18,000, and not much recent driving in humid or rainy conditions. Temps here have been around freezing the past couple of weeks. My commute is about 40 miles each way a couple days a week, mostly interstate, and a few local trips but always up to normal running temperature..no short trips.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 04:33   #189
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I am going to add a slight twist to this.

A poster a whle back had a pix of the green "snot" that he removed from his IC. Now, I am going to combine it with something a bit different. Some time ago, VW sent me a mailing about oil refill levels. I did my 10 k mile oil change, using an extractor and sucking the heck out of engine trying to get every nook and cranny and oil cooler and ...

I ended up adding 4.3 liters of oil to reach the "A" area. Yet, my engine seems to have developed something interesting. The oil level drops to the top of the crosshatch area and stays there for the longest time. This is checked with the engine hot and sitting for about five minutes. I wonder if the "snot", since it looks to be oil based, is from the engine "self-adjusting" the oil level itself. Just a hypothesis but has anyone else seen this with their oil levels as well?

Since this topic of IC condensation/sludge/hydrolocking has popped up in more than one thread, methinks that I will have to check mine out. Now, where is my Locktite for the PP...

On a hunch, I went back and checked my notes I keep on the car. The volume of oil that I had to add to go from the top of the crosshatch to the A/B junction point was 200 ml and I found that when I did my 10k oilchange and surmised that the oil volume was not 4 liters but 4.3 liters +/-. Then I got the note from VW about the "change" to the manual to "approximately 4.3 liters". So, I wonder if the engines are being overfilled and the "natural" level is somewhat lower than designed for and the excess contributing to the goop.

Forgive the rambling...got a rude wakeup by pager and still have not recovered, nor has the liquid bean extract taken effect.

Merry Christmas, one and all. It will be a white one here in Milwaukee.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 14:26   #190
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here's a little food for thought..
it seems that with the exception of actually sucking up rain, there should never be more water in air than can actually evaporate..

then you raise the temp of the air significantly by compressing it with a hot turbo. the intercooler brings the temp back down. if it is above the ambient air temp it should not condense.

So the important thing to know is intake air temp post intercooler.. can this be checked with vcds?

It would seem that the only way to condense water is if the intercooler is working really well, bringing temp below ambient air. Perhaps hobbling performance with a piece of cardboard pasted against the intercooler would prevent it from getting and staying cold enough to condense and keep temp up far enough to evaporate what water is in there allready..
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Old December 24th, 2010, 14:57   #191
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I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful but there are a lot of people poo pooing the ability of water to condense after the intercooler. While vapor liquid equilibrium behaviour is not that difficult to understand, I would say that those who say nay to water condensing do not understand it at all. One can not deny the capacity for this to happen without knowledge of the science involved.

It can happen and from the testimony found here, there are folks experiencing the right set of conditions to make it happen and cause problems. However rare it may be, it does seem that there is insufficient engineering margin in the design that allows this to happen.

To read up on vapor liquid equilibrium, you may want to read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor-liquid_equilibrium

When we talk about water, it is well characterized and tons of data can be found in steam tables which is specific to water to water vapor equilibrium. Saturated steam tables are what you want to look at relative to the conditions relative to the intercooler.

When you take induction air at some saturated or partially saturated condition and compress that air, you are stuffing more water (increasing the partial pressure of water vapor) in that compressed air than existed in the induction air. Now if you cool that air to the same induction air temperature, you are now more saturated than the induction air as the water vapor partial pressure has increased but the maximum water the air can hold is nearly the same.

It is exceedingly easy to condense moisture from compressed air because of this effect. SCUBA divers know this as the air they breath has been compressed to 3,000 psi condensing out a ton of water. Compressed air is very dry as a result. Breath that air for an hour and after that dive, you are very thirsty.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 15:27   #192
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but the maximum water the air can hold is nearly the same.
I
Not quite. The maximum amount of water that air can contain is less. Not only is it compressed (raising its dew point), but the heat of compression has been removed cooling it. The air is not able to hold as much moisture now as it did before it was compressed. Some water vapour may precipitate depending on what the dew point and the temperature of the air was before it was compressed. That is how a lot of water is removed from compressed air.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 15:43   #193
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Not quite. The maximum amount of water that air can contain is less. Not only is it compressed (raising its dew point), but the heat of compression has been removed cooling it. The air is not able to hold as much moisture now as it did before it was compressed. Some water vapour may precipitate depending on what the dew point and the temperature of the air was before it was compressed. That is how a lot of water is removed from compressed air.
We are in agreement. I didn't say it as well as I could. The maximum partial pressure of water is the same at atmospheric pressure and higher pressure for the same temperature. The difference being that, upon compression, you are increasing the partial pressure of water and, dependent on the conditions, you may increase it beyond saturation which results in water condensation.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 17:30   #194
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fair enough, I failed to consider the effect of raising the air pressure, however at up to +22? psi (I believe I read somewhere as max boost), and the average ie cruising is probably <5psi over ambient we are not talking huge #'s here.

here is a fun conversion calculator:
www.howelllabs.com/dew_point_conversion.xls

As you can see at max boost and 30f we are talking a 20 something degree gain in dew point, as for +5psi we are talking +7 degrees. Let the car idle for 10 minutes at temp, and the heat soak + low boost should help evaporate the build up. Think I might try it with the vcds connected to get a feel on the effect.. I still would bet raising the intercooler temp by restricting cooling air flow would solve the problem.

Apparently this is only an issue where the temp is below freezing so icing is an issue here, in more temperate climates it seems that whatever moisture is condensed is also ingested without fanfare.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 17:33   #195
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5 psi boost is a 33% increase in pressure over ambient. Bigger number than it looks. So if ambient air is near saturation, add some humid egr, increase pressure by 33% and drop temp back to ambient, you get saturation. That means condensation. And if intercooler is well below freezing, the frost builds up inside.
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