Proper Parking Technique: neutral or 1st gear?

I'm having a debate with someone about the right way to park the TDI. I believe neutral is the way to gono matter what. On level ground or a graded road/driveway. As long as the brake is on good and tight. This avoids accidental and probably damaging stalls after starting it back up if you don't realize it is in gear and let the clutch out.

The argument is that if left in first, it aids the P-Brake in holding the car in place if the brake is not fully engaged. I would think that could be harmful in some way to the gears (I'm no mechanical expert).

Is there a decided method to this or is it just driver preference?

I have always left my vehicles in gear. Even with a good parking brake, there is always a chance that it could fail. If it is nuetral, it would hit who knows what.

Just my $.02

I just put a brick behind or in front (depending on incline) of the driver's rear wheel...much easier.

Always in 1st or reverse along with parking brake regardless of how flat or graded the parking spot is

First or Reverse. These are the 2 strongest gears. What I was taught. Just mho.

My wife had an embarrassing incident. She parked her car in a small graded parking lot with parking brake only (gear was in neutral). After doing banking, she found her car was on the other side (lower grade) of drive way. Luckily lot was empty and the grade was small. Bumper had minor damage. She now parks her car with both 1st gear and parking brake.

I always leave my car in reverse. My use of the e-brake depands on where i"m parked, i.e. I never use the ebrake in my parking spot in my underground parking at my appartment building, there's no need(perfectly flat ground).

TDIJohnny said:
The argument is that if left in first, it aids the P-Brake in holding the car in place if the brake is not fully engaged. I would think that could be harmful in some way to the gears (I'm no mechanical expert).

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Whichever you set first is the one that holds the car. The other is the back up. I set my parking brake religiously and mine is an automatic (spelled liability insurance, you ever try and catch a car after it starts rolling?).
SET BOTH! If I were to only use one, first or reverse would be my choice! This will in no way damage your transmission.
By the way, if you start your car without the clutch depressed,(in nuetral) you are putting additional wear on your starter because you're asking it to spin the motor and transmission!

Jetter_Sprinta said:

By the way, if you start your car without the clutch depressed,(in nuetral) you are putting additional wear on your starter because you're aking it to spin the motor and transmission!

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Aren't all new cars equipped such that the car won't start unless the clutch pedal is depressed? While it isn't good in practice to start your car this way, I have found it useful when your clutch dies.

As for the topic, I agree -- reverse or first, for liability reasons alone. There's no way I'd leave it in neutral.

Tim

Combustion said:
Aren't all new cars equipped such that the car won't start unless the clutch pedal is depressed?

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Good point! I'm old. Cars didn't always have that. Also TDIjohnny did say letting the clutch out after starting. They haven't figured out a saftey feature for that brain fart yet!

While it isn't good in practice to start your car this way, I have found it useful when your clutch dies.

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You mean starter dies?

Jetter_Sprinta said:

You mean starter dies?

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Either starter or clutch, but not both. If your clutch dies(and your car will start in gear), you can start in first and drive away. Shifting into another gear is tough because you have to be at the right speed. I've only done this twice (once in a Rabbit with a broken clutch cable).

By the way, you can't be too old. Every car I've owned save a '95 Saturn would start without the clutch pedal depressed.

Tim

I always put the vehicle in gear when park. I put the handbrake on first and then the gear. The gear to use depends on the incline of which I park. Upslope, I put in first, downhill in reverse.

I don't put on the hand brake when the brakes are hot, or when I don't use the car for a long period of time.

If you put on the hand brake when hot, you could wrap the rotors.

If you leave the hand brake on for a long time, the cable could got stuck, and cause the rear brakes to seize.

Several other folks have made the point about the possibility of parking brake failure. I'll add that in freezing weather, you should never park with the parking brake engaged if you can at all help it, as all it takes is a little bit of water in there, and you can find your brakes frozen on, making movement difficult or impossible, and damage probable.

I'll also suggest that reverse is a much better option than 1st on a front wheel drive car. The reason is that should the car subsequently be towed by an ignorant/careless tow truck driver who lifts the rear rather than the front, or need to be pulled backards away from an obstruction (most folks pull in head first, rather than back in) reverse will cause the engine to spin in the proper direction, whereas 1st will spin the engine backwards, a most undesireable result that will lead to engine damage if the engine turns over backwards more than a couple revolutions. I note that if you DO back into a parking place, and it becomes necessary to tow you out for some reason, they will pick up the drive wheels to do the tow, and it won't matter what gear you are in. The problem only arises if they don't or can't pick up the front wheels.

For exactly the same reason, if you ever drive a rear-wheel drive car, park it in 1st, rather than reverse.

When I was in college I parked my ugly green 78 Rabbit in the parking lot, set the brake and forgot to put it in gear. That night it got cooooold. I suppose the brake parts shrunk a bit, because the next day I went out to my car to find that it had rolled 1/2 way out of the spot and someone had stuck a rock behind the back tire to keep it from rolling any further!

The possibility that you might forget that you're in gear and stall the car is a poor excuse for parking unsafely. Besides, if you always park in gear (as you should), you'll quickly learn to not let the clutch out after starting.

You should always curb your wheels when parallel parking on a hill too, but most people don't seem to do that either.

Saab (900's anyway) take this 1 step further... you can't take the key out of the ignition until you put the car in 1st, and when you remove the key the car is locked into gear.

I always park mine in 2nd gear + emergency brake. Always, no excuse. 2nd gear puts less strain than 1st gear to the engine. And holds your car the same.

2nd gear!!!


Peace,
Sinner

I always park in 2nd gear with the emergency brake as well.

If you don't want to "load the gears", just put the P brake on and push in the clutch after setting it to make sure that's what is doing the holding. But then leave it in gear, too, and curb it if possible!

The notion of "loading the gears" is silly... Think about it.... Normal driving is capable of "loading the gears" MUCH more than any static parking situation could ever exert.

You must be thinking about AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION that has parking-pawls that attempt to hold the vehicle whilst in "P".

The parking brake should be pulled up with significant force to "lock" the rear wheels. Do not be whimpy with the parking brake. Pull it up till it does not click anymore.
Leave it in any gear you wish, it does not matter if the parking brake is used properly. Although I have not had the opertunity to scrutenize the design of my 2003 Jetta. My last 3 VWs has SEPERATE CABLES from the EMO lever to each of the rear wheels. This means that a cable failure would only release ONE wheel. (German design is beutiful thing to us Mechanical Engineering types that can appreceate the finer points.)

In over 25 years of driving in Vermont winters... I only had ONE occasion where the parking brakes did not release.
This was in a below-zero morning after driving in a very heavy rain the day before. One rear wheel was 'sliding' along the road.... I just backed up a few feet and it released.

Have you ever gone out to your car in the morning to find it covered in over an inch of solid ice? Forget the ice scraper (which is in the car anyway) Even a TORCH would not help much. Even after breaking into it and starting the engine... it is frozen to the ground which is ALL covered in that thick ice sheet.

Sinner said:2nd gear puts less strain than 1st gear to the engine. And holds your car the same.

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Not to quibble about a small point, but 2nd gear may hold the car "fine" or "okay", but not "the same". The higher numbered the gear is, the more the car will move and/or easier it will roll with external force (like gravity if the hill is steep enough). It simply gives the external force more mechanical advantage against the resistance/compression of the engine, so the "strain against the engine" is actually greater in 2nd. As an exercise, try parking in 5th and see how well it holds (read: not well).

In 90% of cases the Ebrake is not necessary at all, just parking in 1st/reverse will hold the car. In the remaining 10% of cases, 1st/reverse plus curbing the wheels will hold the car. In the very rare case where you're parked on a very steep hill with no curb, well then you really should pull hard on the ebrake.

I generally don't yard the ebrake as high as it will go in the interest of avoiding cable stretch/breakage. As long as the car is in gear and the brake is set at all, the car is going nowhere.

tadc said:
either.

...Saab (900's anyway) take this 1 step further... you can't take the key out of the ignition until you put the car in 1st, and when you remove the key the car is locked into gear.

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FYI, On my Saab 900 it was reverse gear, not first. Also, the Saab parking/e-brake operated mechanically on the front disks.

I guess it's reverse.. I never owned one.

My brother in law insisted to me that I didn't know how to drive a stick, because I always park in gear. I've never found my car totaled at the bottom of my hill in the morning though. But he has. Note: He never gives me a hard time about parking in gear anymore.

They cover this in driver's education, as well as on some state's driving tests.... when parking on a hill... turn the wheels towards the curb when parking downhill, away from the curb when parking uphill - the only exception is if there is no curb, then turn the wheels towards the curb when parking uphill.

Or just ask someone from san francisco what they do.

definately park it in gear, as someone already said the notion of putting strain on the drivetrain is not valid, just think of mountain driving, use the gears, not the brakes...

but when parking use both. i remember the police in ouray colorado giving citations for cars that were not using all three methods; in gear, brake on, and wheels properly turned

I use the parking brake + 1st gear in the TDI, and the parking brake + park in the Passat.

I always let the car rest on the parking brake instead of the gearbox. Using the parking brake has become second nature to me, auto or not the parking brake is set. Its probably better anyways as it keeps the parking brake mechanicals working, my parents never use their parking brakes and now they cannot be used as the cables are all rusted to hell (I found this out the hard way.....twice).

Paul_ said:
Also, the Saab parking/e-brake operated mechanically on the front disks.

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Using a separate set of pads, IIRC.

disaster77 said:
I always park in 2nd gear with the emergency brake as well.

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Me three....except I always let the car settle in gear before pulling the e-brake. I've found the rear suspension creaks a bit if done otherwise.

On level ground, no e-brake required, 1st or 2nd gear are enough.

I've also noticed that at my VW dealer, not one single car on their lot has the parking brake engaged. They are all put in 2nd gear, even when on a moderate incline. I was told the e-brake is unnecessary and they don't want to wear them out.

Consider the situation where the car is bumped and the parking brake lets go. If the car is in gear and the bump was hard enough to get it rolling, then isn't it possible that the car could roll fast enough so that it overspeeds the engine and causes damage? The car doesn't have to be moving very fast in 1st or reverse to get to redline...

What about the situation where you park in 1st facing uphill, then roll backwards down the hill? Won't you be spinning the engine the wrong way?

I park in neutral with the parking brake on. Whenever possible I curb my wheels (I lived in Seattle....). I've never had any kind of problem with the car rolling or with the brake cables freezing or the pads contracting and releasing.

MITBeta said:
Consider the situation where the car is bumped and the parking brake lets go.

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I would consider it more likely that rocking the car back and forth might cause the (manual) transmission to jump out of gear rather than release of the handbrake.

TDI_ESEL said:
I just put a brick behind or in front (depending on incline) of the driver's rear wheel...much easier.

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Easier? How is it easier you dope? 1st or reverse. No problems. My brother has an Escort with 200k, original clutch, tranny and engine. It is easier to put it in 1st gear.