New sales numbers show next few years look promising for diesel sales in America.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/10/4177953/us-clean-diesel-auto-sales-soar.html
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/10/4177953/us-clean-diesel-auto-sales-soar.html
U.S. diesel sales soar
- Thread starter mdp
- Start date
john.jackson9213
Top Post Dawg
diesel4ever
Veteran Member
Still, it's a healthy increase (more than overall numbers) and much better than hybrids. It's just so strange (in the light of this data) how much hype is there on the intro of new 'active hybrids' by the media.
ThinMan
Member
Very true but you do realize this current administration is anti oil, and the current media is pro administration.
fastalan
Veteran Member
The hard part is to actually get the average consumer to test drive modern passenger cars powered by clean diesel engine, then these people can compare the driving experience with gas or hybrid car from VW's gas model or models from other brands and make up their mind. VW can't do it alone because it simply does not have enough dealership exposure and model selection. Where is the diesel Yaris type car? diesel Tiguan? diesel Golf Plus? diesel commercial van sized like the Ford Transit? Audi north america doesn't have any diesel 4 doors sedan in its line up.
In addition to the anti diesel advocates, most importantly, there are too many anti VW voices, just read any forum when a TDI vs anything subjet is brought up. These anti VW voices are mostly long term Japanese car buyers, they feel threatened by VW expansion, seeing their favored brand falling apart in sales and market share, these people are willing to do everything to bad mouth every VW products diesel or not, discourage their friends and relatives to avoid any VW products. On top of the way diesel is taxed in the US resulting in higher price than gas, few understand the cost logics behind a diesel car. Why else would VW bring out the Jetta hybrid?
In Canada, where diesel prices are mostly on par with medium grade gas price, there is an incentive to buy diesel cars. On any given street or highway, I am pretty sure I see way more TDI in BC then in WA state. In the greater Vancouver area, I see diesel Golf, Golf Wagon and Jetta TDI new or old generation every where in addition to a quite a few bluetech M-B SUV (not much Bimmer diesel though, 335ds are extremely rare).
There is nothing wrong with modern diesel except that the fuel and emmission standard in the US is set in a certain way to discourage diesel. The US government can instantly change the way the fuel is tax and immediately put every gas or gas hybrid out of the equation.
Can you imagine in a world where government setting barriers to limit what type of computer configuration and form factor can be sold. For example, a tax designed to charge computer, tablet or mobile phone product based on CPU core number, processing power because of higher performance? A tax to charge discrete video card? So I can't have my 6+ core AMD or high power intel Sandy Bridge CPU? And I have to pay $100 tax then someone else buying a very low power tablet or with weak processor because it is trendy, fancy and popular with some law makers? Because ARM and Apple manage to pull more favors within the goverment than Intel and HP?
Until many regulation changes where all technologies play on an equal level without government intervention, I don't think diesel will ever come close to gas or gas hybrid sales in the US. Hybrid is not better than diesel nor is diesel better than hybrid, nor can electric or fuel cell cars solve everything, at the end, it's all down to politics.
In addition to the anti diesel advocates, most importantly, there are too many anti VW voices, just read any forum when a TDI vs anything subjet is brought up. These anti VW voices are mostly long term Japanese car buyers, they feel threatened by VW expansion, seeing their favored brand falling apart in sales and market share, these people are willing to do everything to bad mouth every VW products diesel or not, discourage their friends and relatives to avoid any VW products. On top of the way diesel is taxed in the US resulting in higher price than gas, few understand the cost logics behind a diesel car. Why else would VW bring out the Jetta hybrid?
In Canada, where diesel prices are mostly on par with medium grade gas price, there is an incentive to buy diesel cars. On any given street or highway, I am pretty sure I see way more TDI in BC then in WA state. In the greater Vancouver area, I see diesel Golf, Golf Wagon and Jetta TDI new or old generation every where in addition to a quite a few bluetech M-B SUV (not much Bimmer diesel though, 335ds are extremely rare).
There is nothing wrong with modern diesel except that the fuel and emmission standard in the US is set in a certain way to discourage diesel. The US government can instantly change the way the fuel is tax and immediately put every gas or gas hybrid out of the equation.
Can you imagine in a world where government setting barriers to limit what type of computer configuration and form factor can be sold. For example, a tax designed to charge computer, tablet or mobile phone product based on CPU core number, processing power because of higher performance? A tax to charge discrete video card? So I can't have my 6+ core AMD or high power intel Sandy Bridge CPU? And I have to pay $100 tax then someone else buying a very low power tablet or with weak processor because it is trendy, fancy and popular with some law makers? Because ARM and Apple manage to pull more favors within the goverment than Intel and HP?
Until many regulation changes where all technologies play on an equal level without government intervention, I don't think diesel will ever come close to gas or gas hybrid sales in the US. Hybrid is not better than diesel nor is diesel better than hybrid, nor can electric or fuel cell cars solve everything, at the end, it's all down to politics.
Last edited:
IFRCFI
Veteran Member
No matter.....VW is going to replace TDIs with gas hybrids in 2013 anyway....
Cogen Man
Veteran Member
And there goe's the neighbor hood.
In my area people just are not into the idea of diesel at all. It's not that they dislike them, they just dont seem interested. Through on top of that, diesel prices that are 60 cents higher that RUG...who's gonna buy one?
donDavide
Veteran Member
@ Rabbit, it id not conspiracy.
Yep. And that was with a sixth grade ejeecation!
GTIDan
Veteran Member
Total BS.........No matter.....VW is going to replace TDIs with gas hybrids in 2013 anyway....
Well, hybrid supply was probably impacted by the tsunami in Japan. Also, diesel sales were apparently decreased in 2010, before they increased in 2011. Also, the overall market increased by around 10%. See:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...in-the-u-s-says-oem-sponsored-advocacy-group/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...in-the-u-s-says-oem-sponsored-advocacy-group/
IFRCFI
Veteran Member
Looks like sarcasm is lost on you.......Total BS.........
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
fastalan, very good post. I feel the same way.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I know I'm preaching to the choir here but this is what I figured this morning in response to the Truth about Cars posting:
Prices this morning on my way to work:
Rug - $3.33
Diesel - $3.85
TDI JSW running about 35 mpg average around town with gasser rated at 25.
Cost per 1000 miles:
Rug - $133.20 (13 cents per mile)
Diesel - $110.11 (11 cents per mile)
Diesel would have to run $4.66 to make it less economical than rug.
They listed and basically blasted the companies behind the diesel push but forgot to mention who is behind the hybrid push. To be transparent, the comapny I work for is on the list of diesel supporters and is a major supplier to VW/Audi.
Last edited:
BeetleGo
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Let's not forget the added grunt of a diesel. Everyone who rides in my car is amazed at the urge my car has - at any speed. Or how much quieter a car is at 1,000 fewer rpm's. Them's the facts. Also, diesels age much better (even though most people don't consider this, despite the fact that they hang onto their cars longer than ever).
Last edited:
MyAvocation
Top Post Dawg
I, too, did not catch the sarcasm. Thanks for clarifying.
Fastalan, I'm curious to know the origin of the D2 price increase. Is it federal, state, local? When I Google it, all I get are blogs/forums chocked full of opinions.
Fastalan, I'm curious to know the origin of the D2 price increase. Is it federal, state, local? When I Google it, all I get are blogs/forums chocked full of opinions.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
There is a higher federal road tax on diesel, but it is only about 15 cents difference or so, can't remember exactly. It is posted on most pumps here though (state and federal taxes in cents-per-gallon).
But while the fuel economy differences (when compared to a similar gas version car, where possible) will easily overcome the fuel cost differences, it is the purchase cost and PM costs of the diesel vehicle that start to eat into any perceived "savings".
But while the fuel economy differences (when compared to a similar gas version car, where possible) will easily overcome the fuel cost differences, it is the purchase cost and PM costs of the diesel vehicle that start to eat into any perceived "savings".
dogdots
Vendor
Definitely. The company I work for had huge supply interruptions from the tsunami, and we also had to shut production lines down because we provided our NVRams to Toyota to help them get back to production. Whoda thunk it - digital copiers and Toyota automobiles use the same non volatile ram chips
RNDDUDE
Veteran Member
Already elsewhere on the forum, but relevant none the less....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahe...hen-why-hybrid-technology-wont-work-for-audi/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahe...hen-why-hybrid-technology-wont-work-for-audi/
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
The Hybrid Jetta was at the NAIAS... nice car. They use the 1.4L FSI from the Polo. The car also had IRS, soft-touch dash, and all the added-on crap the SEL and TDI models get, it is supposed to sell for about $27k, and get 43/42 MPG.
We'll see for sure when it hits the dealer lots if what they showed us and what they told us was correct. If so, I'll bet TDI Jetta sales will drop like a stone.
We'll see for sure when it hits the dealer lots if what they showed us and what they told us was correct. If so, I'll bet TDI Jetta sales will drop like a stone.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
So that does put it about even with the fully loaded GLI for pricing. If the hybrid can really deliver those numbers, then yes, it will hurt the diesel sales. This may also allow VW to ignore more of the diesel problems since they now offer "what the consumer wants".
I bet they dont drop. Why did we(me) by a new TDI? You act like this is the first hybrid when its far from it, if I wanted one I would have bought a prius, optima, fusion or somthing but I didnt. Some of us enjoy driving and having the fuel mileage hense buying a TDI. After a fix or an alt pump comes (hpfp) out for these cars I will be ditching my emission crap, getting tuned, and rolling 50+ mpg with a decently powerfull car.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Actually, the "fully loaded" Jetta TDI right next to it was $26k+. And that still uses the beam axle, hard dash, and probably a few other minor bits different. At least you can get a TDI with a manual for a little less.
The GLI w/NAV and with an automatic is $28k+. The GLI w/NAV starts at $27k and goes up from there, although there really is not much more you can add.
I only point this out because it looks like the argument for a TDI Jetta has just gotten a big blow with the Hybrid stablemate, as many people who would have entertained a diesel purchase may be swayed back to the gasser hybrid. I wouldn't. But I would not be buying the diesel Jetta anyways. Not when the MUCH simpler, MUCH more reliable 2.slow is available for $16k.
Last edited:
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I thought (from other threads) that the 2013 jetta was getting the independent rear suspension and soft touch dash back, but the car at the show was probably a 2012 model. I didn't look at equipment, just the starting price from vw.com.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
The hybrid Jetta they had there was not (I don't think) a "full production" model, so it may be equipped differently than the actual cars offered for sale will be. I forgot to look to see if it had a VIN, and what the 10th digit was. It could have been a preproduction 2013 model car (there are lots of those at the show).
tikal
Veteran Member
Do you think a drop in price of the Jetta TDI will follow the coming of the Jetta hybrid?
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
I very much doubt that.