200 Miles driven after half tank

I have a 2002 Golf TDI auto with about 1600 miles. They are all city miles. I consistantly only get about 200 miles after a half tank and I assume 400 miles on a full tank, (correct me if I am wrong).

Would this be within the range of city comsumption? I thank you in advance on your feedback.

Regards,
Cornel

Let's see...

An automatic not broken in, probably not venting the tank when filling so putting in about 14 gallons, estimated 400 miles per tank.

28mpg. Which is a little low. I suspect you need to drive it some more and put more miles on it, and let the gauge get closer to empty to see how much you should get per tank. I would estimate 35mpg or about 500 miles per tank (14 gallons if you don't vent).

Originally posted by corn27:
I have a 2002 Golf TDI auto with about 1,600 miles, all city. I consistently only get about 200 miles after a half tank and I assume 400 miles on a full tank (correct me if I'm wrong).

Would this be within the range of city consumption?

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Vent when you fill up, and drive until the light comes on, and then vent-fill again. It should take at least 15 gallons to fill it up the second time. Mine has taken 16.9 gallons before without showing any signs of quitting. Many here figure the capacity of a vented tank at 17.0 gallons when done properly.

You may be only getting 28 mpg if all your driving is indeed in the city, with no expressway or freeway driving at all.

Also, it is still new and not broken in yet by any stretch of the imagination.



[ December 28, 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: WVWSP61 ]

I appreciate the info guys. I will try to vent next time and we'll see what happens. I thought it was broken in after 1000 miles! I guess I have much to learn! Hahaha

you'll just be getting broken in at about 10K and then some!!

that's many, many trips on the BQE

corn27:
What is your daily mileage. Do you drive more than 3-5 miles one way? This could possibly be your problem, if you drive the car with permanently cold engine.
Milen

We have an Auto TDI Jetta and have encoutered these same numbers when the car is getting used primarily for the wife's 2 mile commute to work. The engine never warms up and 200 miles on 1/2 tank is about right. I vent upon fillup and it will take over 16 gallons if you drive far enough past the low fuel light.

With that low city mileage (30-ish) I wouldn't go past 50 miles with the low fuel light on.

Nothing is wrong with your car, the Autos when new and city driven won't always see the 34 mpg on the window sticker, especially with short trips all the time.

Originally posted by spongebob:

We have an Auto TDI Jetta and have encountered these same numbers when the car is getting used primarily for the wife's 2 mile commute to work. The engine never warms up and 200 miles on 1/2 tank is about right. I vent upon fill up and it will take over 16 gallons if you drive far enough past the low fuel light.

With that low city mileage (30-ish) I wouldn't go past 50 miles with the low fuel light on.

Nothing is wrong with your car, the Autos when new and city driven won't always see the 34 mpg on the window sticker, especially with short trips all the time.

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Amen to that! Truer words were never spoken.
Anyone that will try to tell you differently is simply not telling it like it really is.

When making those short drives and starting out with a cold motor, notice how far or long you must travel before the temperature gauge reaches the normal area of about 190 degrees. And just because the coolant reaches that temperature doesn't mean that the rest of the motor including the oil is at that temperature yet, and is thoroughly warmed up, correct?

The "Autos when . . . . . . . . city driven" will NEVER see the 34 mpg on the window sticker "especially with short trips all the time." I have a friend that regularly gets only 28 mpg driving his NB under these exact same conditions, and his car is thoroughly broken in BTW, with over 20,000 miles on the odometer, and he's using Amsoil 3000 series 5W-30 oil!

Anyone telling you differently simply hasn't driven their automatic TDI in real city stop-and-go traffic under these short commute conditions!

Originally posted by WVWSP61:
Anyone telling you differently simply hasn't driven their automatic TDI in real city stop-and-go traffic under these short commute conditions!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that so? We have a 2000 Golf TDi automatic.
Our lifetime average is at 39.78mpg/866 gallons in 34450 miles.
The worst we ever saw was 29mpg. Not broken in with less than 1500 miles. The first year we has the Golf we would get 35mpg to 37mpg city driving. Start the car/drive 5 miles in stop and go/turn off the car. Repeat 8 hours later.
Since my wife doesn't work anymore we usually have about 80%city/20%highway and we usually get 38mpg to 43mpg. (But I'm not sure if you can call driving to Seattle every other week in stop and go traffic highway.)
We have gotten 48.5mpg on a trip to Reno.
But I don't check individual tanks very often. It is the lifetime average that counts. Venting and checking every tank is just pissing in the wind as far as I'm concerned. If I want range I'll put a tank in the spare tire wheel well.

AutoDiesel,

May I suggest that you consult Fuel Economy Results

http://forums.tdiclub.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=NkWAWWQLJTtO

Note the average results!

Also note the word average as in the averaging of all mileages, both city and highway.

Note into which category most respondents fall.

Originally posted by WVWSP61:

Amen to that! Truer words were never spoken.
Anyone that will try to tell you differently is simply not telling it like it really is.

The "Autos when . . . . . . . . city driven" will NEVER see the 34 mpg on the window sticker "especially with short trips all the time."

Anyone telling you differently simply hasn't driven their automatic TDI in real city stop-and-go traffic under these short commute conditions!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, let me put it in another way.
I keep good records.

The following is just stop and go city driving.
Start cold/ drive 5 or so miles in stop and go/ stop. Repeat after 5pm.

435 miles / 11.6 gallons / 37.50 mpg.
389 miles / 9.9 gallons / 39.29 mpg.
411 miles / 10.2 gallons / 40.29 mpg.

1235 miles / 31.7 gallons / 38.96 mpg.
Three tank average as you requested.

These are three of the better tanks. One of which was when the Golf had less than 10k miles.
I've done better, I've done worse.

Just don't say you will never get city window sticker mileage.

Originally posted by AutoDiesel:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WVWSP61:

Amen to that! Truer words were never spoken. Anyone that will try to tell you differently is simply not telling it like it really is.

The "Autos when . . . . . . . . city driven" will NEVER see the 34 mpg on the window sticker "especially with short trips all the time."

Anyone telling you differently simply hasn't driven their automatic TDI in real city stop-and-go traffic under these short commute conditions!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, let me put it in another way.
I keep good records.

The following is just stop and go city driving.
Start cold/ drive 5 or so miles in stop and go/ stop. Repeat after 5pm.

435 miles / 11.6 gallons / 37.50 mpg.
389 miles / 9.9 gallons / 39.29 mpg.
411 miles / 10.2 gallons / 40.29 mpg.

1235 miles / 31.7 gallons / 38.96 mpg.
Three tank average as you requested.

These are three of the better tanks. One of which was when the Golf had less than 10k miles. I've done better, I've done worse.

Just don't say you will never get city window sticker mileage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Quoted from your earlier post above:

"The worst we ever saw was 29 mpg. Not broken in with less than 1500 miles."

This is exactly what Corn 27 and many others here are saying, isn't it?

Here you admit to doing the same, but you want to argue. I don't understand what the problem is?

Several other people have said more or less the same things. You did not, nor should anyone expect to average anywhere near the EPA city mileage estimates when commuting in HEAVY stop-and-go city traffic when speeds are as low as only twelve miles per hour average with a cold motor for short distances of only three miles or less. It simply will not happen.

Originally posted by WVWSP61:
"The worst we ever saw was 29 mpg. Not broken in with less than 1500 miles."
Here you admit to doing the same, but you want to argue. I don't understand what the problem is?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure I admit we only got 29 mpg once. But now we get much better. The absolute worst I've seen in the last year with exact type of driving you talk about, stop and go, was about 35.5 mpg with nothing but start/drive a few mile/stop.
Still better than the EPA sticker.
Just because you know someone that doesn't get very good mileage with their Bug doesn't mean everyone else can't do better.
And if you don't think we have heavy stop and go traffic around here I invite you to try to drive across town in the morning sometime. The last trip that was about four miles took 40 minutes!

As they say,
Your mileage may vary!

Take Care.

Originally posted by AutoDiesel:

And if you don't think we have heavy stop and go traffic around here I invite you to try to drive across town in the morning sometime. The last trip that was about four miles took 40 minutes!

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NOW you are talking about the type of city traffic that those above are speaking of and are complaining about and are getting less than thirty miles per gallon!

Do that same four mile forty minute drive twice a day regularly with no other driving such as some freeway cruising mixed in, or weekend jaunts out into the countryside, and I'll guarantee you that your automatic TDI NB, Golf or Jetta WILL achieve less than thirty miles per gallon with regularity.

As I have said before, too many have experienced this, and there isn't anything wrong with their cars and what poor fuel mileage they are achieving is normal .

You do realize that when the car is running, but you're not moving at all, your average miles per gallon is zero? Driving in heavy cross-town traffic when you are only averaging six miles per hour will probably only yield you about 25 mpg!

Your mileage may indeed vary , but not by very much.



[ January 06, 2003, 23:45: Message edited by: WVWSP61 ]

Even the handbook to my passat stated that SHORT trips will kill MPG very effectivly. Esp. in cold weather.
For the first 100m I have a fuel usage of up to 80l/100km (MFD trip computer). Go figure in MPG (far below 5 MPG).
It drops gradually to about 20l/100km (12 MPG) after 1-2km. When arriving at work (engine is still cold) after 4km it is down to 8-9l/100km which is 26-29 MPG. When some lights are red or traffic is jammed I get about 10l/100km (23 MPG).
Nevertheless I get 36-45 MPG on the autobahn with some electrical goodies on (seats, radio, air condition). Remember, the passat is heavier than the bora, so no 50+MPG here.

Your MPG seems absolutely normal for short drives to work...
To get more MPGs you need to let it roll constantly(!) with a light foot on the pedal. Braking and then re-accelerating uses the most fuel in a warmed up engine.

Originally posted by Ronkervoort:
Even the handbook to my passat stated that SHORT trips will kill MPG very effectively, especially in cold weather.
For the first 100m, fuel usage of up to 80L/100km (MFD trip computer). Go figure in MPG (far below 5 MPG). It drops gradually to about 20L/100km (12 MPG) after 1-2km. When arriving at work (engine is still cold) after 4km it is down to 8-9L/100km which is 26-29 MPG. When lights are red or traffic is jammed, I get about 10L/100km (23 MPG).
Nevertheless, I get 36-45 MPG on the autobahn with some electrical goodies on (seats, radio, air condition). Remember, the Passat is heavier than the Bora, so no 50+MPG here.

Your MPG seems absolutely normal for short drives to work.
To get more MPGs you need to let it roll constantly(!) with a light foot on the pedal. Braking and then re-accelerating uses the most fuel in a warmed up engine.

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Ronkervoort,

Very interesting!

You have the advantage of being able to see what is happening to the fuel economy in what I think is referred to as "real time."

Wish that we had that option available on the TDIs that are sent over here, but alas, no such luck.

Thanks for enlightening us on what really happens to the fuel economy when the TDI is first started and driven cold.

Originally posted by WVWSP61:
NOW you are talking about the type of city traffic that those above are speaking of and are complaining about and are getting less than thirty miles per gallon!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Complaining??!! NOT!
It has only happened once to me. Re-read my post.
The worst I've seen in the same type of traffic you are talking about has been 35.5 mpg.
NO HIGHWAY, NO COUNTRY JAUNTS OR DRIVES.

I've bettered the rated sticker on the last four cars I've owned in nothing but stop and go city traffic.

Believe it or not!
Either way, doesn't matter to me.
Just my pocketbook cares.

Originally posted by AutoDiesel: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WVWSP61:
NOW you are talking about the type of city traffic that those above are speaking of and are complaining about and are getting less than thirty miles per gallon!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Complaining??!! NOT!
It has only happened once to me. Re-read my post.
The worst I've seen in the same type of traffic you are talking about has been 35.5 mpg.
NO HIGHWAY, NO COUNTRY JAUNTS OR DRIVES.

I've bettered the rated sticker on the last four cars I've owned in nothing but stop and go city traffic.

Believe it or not!
Either way, doesn't matter to me.
Just my pocketbook cares. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

I don't, and I don't think anyone else does either that has had experience with any TDI with an automatic transmission.

I was referring to those other people who have written in and are not happy with their poor city fuel economy, and I was not referring to you or yours.

Go back and read what our German writer (Ronkervoort) wrote above. He knows. Why? Because he can see it in real-time readings as it is happening as he drives his short distances as his car is warming up.

It's okay IF you believe what you are saying, but I for one simply don't buy it. Sorry.

Your car may be one of those remarkable machines that VW may want to buy back because it is doing so much better than any they have ever produced.

Imagine, you claim to be able to do so much better than the EPA City test cycle when driving in terrible much more severe rush hour traffic where you only are covering four miles at a six (6) mile per hour rate. Outstanding! Isn't the EPA test cycle average speed about 18 miles per hour?

2017 miles on the clock.
All city driving.
64.421 gallons of diesel purchased.
31.309 MPG.
"02 Golf GLS.

Should have mentioned Automatic

I could say it's magic, but it's not.

Go educate yourself and do some reading about some of the compitions that have been held for getting the best economy out of a vehicle.
There are a few tricks that can be adapted just by changing your driving style that can increase your mileage dramatically in any vehicle, in any driving situation.
Here is a hint: most people don't know how to keep their feet off both the throttle and the brakes.
I know a guy who has a Honda Insight and he and others with Insights have found a few tricks of their own to get better mileage out of their vehicles.
How bout: 73mpg city / stop and go.
I believe they are rated for 67mpg, he beats the sticker too!

CID-SID,
That is more typical with low mileage, but when you get over 10k to 15k miles on your car your mileage will go up and you can beat the sticker also.

Don't care what tricks you or anyone else is using or how many miles that you have on your TDI automatic.

Anyone driving accross town for the short distance of only four miles on a regular basis, and taking forty minutes to do this is only averaging six miles per hour, and will not get tank mileages of over thirty miles per gallon doing this type of driving only.

It does not take a rocket scientist to know that when you only travel four miles in forty minutes, you are standing still most of time. What do you do, turn off the motor so it doesn't have to idle while you are waiting for traffic to move, or that red light to change?

Don't talk to me about tricks to gain fuel economy. I was interested in that way back when Secony-Vacuum was sponsoring the Mobil Economy Runs. Do you remember them?

Originally posted by WVWSP61:
Anyone driving accross town for the short distance of only four miles on a regular basis, and taking forty minutes to do this is only averaging six miles per hour, and will not get tank mileages of over thirty miles per gallon doing this type of driving only.

Don't talk to me about tricks to gain fuel economy. I was interested in that way back when Secony-Vacuum was sponsoring the Mobil Economy Runs. Do you remember them?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I so sorry you are confused but did I say it takes that much time everyday? NO!
I said the "last trip" took that much time.

Taking statements out of context again.

And it is not "Secony-Vacuum",
it's Socony-Vacuum

Why, yes I do know about SoconyVacuum.

Socony, Standard Oil Company of New York

"Although Mobil did not come into existence until 1966, the Fairfax, Virginia-based corporation can trace its roots back to 1911 when John D. Rockefeller was ordered to break up his Standard Oil of New Jersey company and give up control of its subsidiaries. One of these was the Standard Oil Company of New York - known as Socony - which had been established in 1882. After the break-up Socony was forced to look for crude oil reserves as it had previously been supplied by its sister companies. In 1918 Socony acquired Magnolia Petroleum and this was followed by General Petroleum of California in 1926. In 1931 Socony merged with Vacuum Oil to form Socony-Vacuum and adopted the Flying Red Horse as its trademark. Two years later, still trying to buy up oil reserves Socony-Vacuum merged with its former parent Standard Oil of New Jersey and a new company was formed called Stanvac. Further oil reserves were obtained when the company bought a share of the Arabian American Oil Company (Aramco) in 1948. In 1955 the company changed its name to Socony Mobil Oil and in 1966 became Mobil Oil."

And I'll let whomever have the last word.
I done with this tread.

[ January 10, 2003, 01:06: Message edited by: AutoDiesel ]

The absolute worst I have seen on my car has been the 34 mpg window sticker value after driving around metro Boston area where gridlock is a way of life. My average mileage is about 40 mpg.

I always get more than 200 miles after the half way mark and am usually around the eighth of a tank or maybe a needle width below it at this point.

Originally posted by AutoDiesel:

And it is not "Secony-Vacuum",
it's Socony-Vacuum

Now we're down to splitting hairs because of a typo?

Why, yes I do know about SoconyVacuum.

It's Socony Vacuum, and not one word SoconyVacuum. But who is getting technical here?

And I'll let whomever have the last word.
I done with this tread.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good for you. I second the motion.

As my friend in Gardena always says, Later.

I am glad to see that this thread has continued on. There has been a lot of info on this thread to suggest that my mileage is a normal and within reason. Just for some clarification I refueled today and right when my fuel alert tone rang, it was at 354. Also since I am in NYC this is all city driving and is short distances which not surprisingly affects the MPG. I look forward to the my first road trip so my TDI can experience some highway driving. I think all the stop and go is killing her! By the way when I filled up I only got 12.229 gallons in the tank. I really need to learn that vent trick! Off to the FAQ!

[ January 11, 2003, 21:09: Message edited by: corn27 ]

Originally posted by corn27:

I am glad to see that this thread has continued. There has been a lot of info on this thread to suggest that my mileage is a normal and within reason. Just for some clarification, I refueled today and right when my fuel alert tone rang, it was at 354 miles. Also, since I am in NYC, this is all city driving and is short distances which not surprisingly affects the MPG. I look forward to the my first road trip so my TDI can experience some highway driving. I think all the stop and go is killing her! By the way when I filled up I only got 12.229 gallons in the tank. I really need to learn that vent trick! Off to the FAQ!

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True heavy stop-and-go mileage of 28.948 mpg is normal and that is what the TDIs do under those conditions.

Anyone that says differently is doing one of two things.

Their idea of the terrible stop-and-go traffic that you, and many others have experienced with relatively cold engines that are not operated for very long at or near normal operating temperatures, especially on short commutes of two or three miles is much different then what we have experienced.

OR they are not telling the truth.

When the weather warms up this spring, and by then, you will have accumulated some addition break-in mileage, you'll probably take a day trip out of the city, and you will experience much better fuel economy.

Just imagine what kind of gas (hate that word) mileage you would be getting if you were making the same commute with one of those things (ugh)! The diesel engine by virtue of it's very nature is much more fuel efficient under the slow stop-and-go plus idling that you must endure daily.

Derrel, thanks for the comments. It's nice to know that my car's MPG are within range. I also understand what you are talking about since my previous car was an Acura Integra and back in my Florida days, I would hit 380 on a full tank of gas no problem. Once I moved up it dropped down a about 300. That Manhattan traffic sure takes a hit on the MPG and spirit! With those potholes in the city it's going to be a tough call on if I should get those performance shocks and springs.

How do you guys get such low mileage on your cars. I have an auto box. Even right now with winter fuel I still am at 500 miles and my needle is between the eighth and beep mark. Let me tell you, I drive like a maniac. I am usually going around eighty on the highway and I stomp on it in the city.

I just don't see how you can get such bad mileage. I have never seen below 500 miles a tank, ever!

in my 2001 golf with a vented tank and most driving with letting the car get to operating temp I will get about 1050 km with 50 % city 50% highway and about 900km all city. with just short trips that drops to 800 or less. This in winter with snow tires aswell. In summer I get about 1000kms on a vented tank around town and about 1200 on the highway at 110km/hr-120km/hr. I drive about 60-80kms after fuel light goes on and usually put about 60 liters in the tank.