2014 Q7 TDI Gen 2 POST UPGRADE Results

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
Truly not trying to be antagonistic here. I get that calculating MPG by taking odometer reading and dividing by fuel burned is a more accurate determinant of MPG.

---

Again, not trolling for a fight. I just don't understand why comparing apples-to-apples is invalid.
Thanks for the responses. Honestly, a lot of what was said is syllogistic...MFI cannot be relied upon for an apples-to-apples, before-vs-after comparison because everyone knows MFI is not reliable.

But one explanation stands out - without knowing MFI methodology for determining MPG, you can't know whether the "fix" affects the post-"fix" MFI methodology. If it does, it would defeat the apples-to-applies premise and thus make it unrevealing to rely on MFI for firm conclusions about pre- vs. post-fix MPG.

That's good enough for me. I'm leaving convinced that plain old math (miles traveled/gallons of fuel used = MPG) is the proper yardstick.

FWIW, I called to make a dealer appointment for a 60k service on mine today. The SW did not ask me if I want to schedule my "fix." Curious, I asked why. She said no reason, when you want it, let us know. She also said that their customers are reporting general satisfaction with the "fix", which is costing them about 1 mpg.

I didn't ask how they calculated it... :rolleyes:
 
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bioburner

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Location
Out there
TDI
02 Wagon 285k - Gone ‘10 JSW - Gone '13 Q7 145k
Does anyone else notice their engine warms up much faster than before?
I’m only a couple days post fix but....
1. Engine warms up to temp much quicker (20-35F ambient temps this week around here). Previously I could be 5-7 miles down the road before the temp gauge registered 1/2. Now it’s within 1-2 miles.
2. Low to mid range torque feels diminished.
3. Go pedal seems like it needs to be depressed further for an equivalent throttle response. It doesn’t feel linear, slightly annoying.
4. Not too concerned about fuel economy at the moment. $10k can buy a lot of diesel.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
I’m only a couple days post fix but....
1. Engine warms up to temp much quicker (20-35F ambient temps this week around here). Previously I could be 5-7 miles down the road before the temp gauge registered 1/2. Now it’s within 1-2 miles.
2. Low to mid range torque feels diminished.
3. Go pedal seems like it needs to be depressed further for an equivalent throttle response. It doesn’t feel linear, slightly annoying.
4. Not too concerned about fuel economy at the moment. $10k can buy a lot of diesel.
2 and 3 are even worse than a gasser 3.0T. Pretty sad.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
2 and 3 are even worse than a gasser 3.0T. Pretty sad.
Have you been driving a Q7 or a Touareg? My Touareg feels slightly down on power but not by much. I'm curious if the Q7 was neutered worse than the Touaregs?
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Have you been driving a Q7 or a Touareg? My Touareg feels slightly down on power but not by much. I'm curious if the Q7 was neutered worse than the Touaregs?
I compared two fixed 2014 Q7s and a 2018 Q7 3.0T gasser side by side. I also drove a 2018 audi Q5 2.0T gasser as a loaner. Even the Q5 was more fun to drive.

I've heard good results from the Treg/cayenne fix, but not so much for the Q7.
 
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bloc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
I'd bet the Audi and VW engine programming are the exact same. Transmission schedules might differ (Audi being the "sport" brand), but considering there is an S mode when we want it to be sporty I don't see why they'd bother making the Touareg and Q7 any different.


As to warmup, mine definitely hangs onto lower gears and waits to lockup the torque converter longer.
 
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bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
The only real difference, other than the unknowns about the physical aftertreatment systems, is the weight difference between the Q7 and Touareg. Maybe the heavier Q7 had to be setup differently than the Touareg to get the same emissions results?
 
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nayr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2014 Audi Q7
If they got different fixes the'd of been classified as different vehicles..

but if your down on power, it'll be more apparent in a heavier vehicle..
 

Twohorses

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Location
Boston
TDI
2014 Touareg TDi
I saw quite a few, me included, newly joined members complaining basically about loss of accecelation and lower MPG in Touareg and Q7. I am not a car guy and I don’t want to talk technical details. The point I want to make is I have no doubt that my 2014 Touareg is a much lesser car post fix. I drove it almost everyday for three years and the difference is significant enough to tell. I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software. I am a scientist who work on hard evidences, and I believe it will not be hard to prove VW cheated yet again. Maybe Those engineers at University of West Virginia can do their wonder again?
 
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MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
I saw quite a few, me included, newly joined members complaining basically about loss of accecelation and lower MPG in Touareg and Q7. I am not a car guy and I don’t want to talk technical details. The point I want to make is I have no doubt that my 2014 Touareg is a much lesser car post fix. I drove it almost everyday for three years and the difference is significant enough to tell. I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software. I am a scientist who work on hard evidences, and I believe it will not be hard to prove VW cheated yet again. Maybe Those engineers at University of West Virginia can do their wonder again?

More like the definition of "performance" in the settlement is too loose than VW cheated again: peak horsepower and torque is nothing, the power output curve was not even mentioned. In the world of diesel engine, that's more important.

The fix made the car garbage. A "clean" garbage is still garbage.
 

nayr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
Colorado
TDI
2014 Audi Q7
I'm curious to see how much of an improvement an aftermarket tune will make.. havent found any tuners for 8spd ZF, so post-fix transmission mapping will remain.. might be like driving around in sport mode all the time if the power is returned in spades.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
I just want us drivers united as I believe this fraudulent fix is a much severe offense than the cheating software.

1) How are drivers going to be united when many don’t agree with you that the fix has been a disaster?

2) Where is the fraud/conspiracy you are claiming? VW? EPA? Both??
 

bloc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
Anyone willing to put their TDI on a dyno before and after the fix?

Gonna need some hard data to prove they are now "garbage"
 

Nash_TDI

Veteran Member -TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Location
Louisville, ky
TDI
2000 Silver Jetta TDI
Like somebody said before its not all about number which a dyno would show. A lot of it is driveability. Car may have peak power close to the same, but the area under the power curve is a lot smaller, or takes a LOT more throttle to get the same response.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
^^Well, you could use more throttle, lol. When I bought my Q5, the shifting was atrocious. It turned out the previous owner (whom I know), just didn’t teach the transmission to work dynamically at all. When I asked the dealer for a reset, they were willing, but didn’t have time that afternoon. They suggested I drive around in manual for a while. Guess what: it worked. I drove in manual for a few days, on and off; never did have to bring the car in, and it knows what to do now.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
Update here:

'13 Q7 TDi Prestige currently back at the dealer. Audi of America asked me to bring it in after I called in a complaint.

Shop foreman took the car out with me this morning and acknowledged that it feels way worse, acceleration from slow speed/stopped has a ton of hesitation, it does not drive like it should.

They have the car and supposedly an official Audi engineer is being dispatched to look at the car and 'perform performance modifications.'

If they followed the standard procedure for applying the fix, I can't see how other people could not be experiencing this.

69k miles btw in case anyone is interested.
 

911c4fan

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
schenectady, NY
TDI
2014 A6, 2016 A7, 2014A8L, 2014Q5, 2016Q5, 2013 Q7, 2014Q7, 2014Q7, 2013Q7, 2015 Q5, 2016 Q5 Prestige S line
Please keep us posted. That's pretty interesting. Might uncover some of the reasons some are suffering so much post compliance. I have had a 2013 and 2014 Q7 done with no noticeable reduction in performance. I really think the higher mileage the car, the more likely to have an issue. We will have to see if there is a correlation. Mine had 18,000 and 24,000 miles.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
I'm along the same lines, my 2014 Touareg feels pretty dang good yet. So I'm wondering if some vehicles are responding differently.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
Latest status is.. they asked me what gas stations I fill up at... but when they asked they started rattling off Arco, Spirit, Valero (some of the cheaper stations)

(Chevron/76)

No comment after I told them, and haven't heard anything since yesterday.
 

bloc

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
Austin, Tx
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI
Like somebody said before its not all about number which a dyno would show. A lot of it is driveability. Car may have peak power close to the same, but the area under the power curve is a lot smaller, or takes a LOT more throttle to get the same response.
I'm curious whether the dyno chart looks significantly different, implying different midrange torque/power.

Yes, it'd be difficult to get data on the change in part-throttle performance, but full-throttle data would be pretty easy to compare.

Even some before and after VCDS logs of boost pressure/throttle %/injector duration/injection time could help.. I didn't think to do it before the fix so I don't have a baseline.
 

Ddbass

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
Athens, GA
TDI
2013 Q7 PP
2013 Q7 fixed last month.
I've gone from:
27 -> 23 highway
19 -> 14 around town
22 -> 17 average

Pretty upsetting
 

NJ Q7 TDI

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Location
New Jersey
TDI
Q7
I am not a technical car person, but I do know how my car's drive feels. And a week post-fix, my 2013 Q7's power is way down. The rev of the engine sounds like my old Nissan CVT engine, where it's gunning, but not really going anywhere. And when I step off the gas, the car slows down much faster than before (to which my husband jokes that we'll need to change the brakes less often).
Needless to say, I'm not happy with the fix, and appreciate reading others' experiences to see if there's anything that can be done to help. The loaner non-TDI Q7 I had during the fix was much more fun to drive than my formerly-beloved TDI. :-(
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
2013 Q7 fixed last month.
I've gone from:
27 -> 23 highway
19 -> 14 around town
22 -> 17 average

Pretty upsetting
Can you share with us whether you've arrived at these numbers via calculation vs OBC? Some say the OBC values cannot be compared reliably pre- vs. post-fix. If your hand-calculated MPG is that terrible post-fix, that is seriously atrocious.
 

Ddbass

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
Athens, GA
TDI
2013 Q7 PP
Yeah I've hand calculated my average at fill up. The highway and around town numbers are observations from the OBC, but the calculated average at fill-up bears them out.
 

JG321PM

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Location
Atlanta
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Update here:

'13 Q7 TDi Prestige currently back at the dealer. Audi of America asked me to bring it in after I called in a complaint.

Shop foreman took the car out with me this morning and acknowledged that it feels way worse, acceleration from slow speed/stopped has a ton of hesitation, it does not drive like it should.

They have the car and supposedly an official Audi engineer is being dispatched to look at the car and 'perform performance modifications.'

If they followed the standard procedure for applying the fix, I can't see how other people could not be experiencing this.

69k miles btw in case anyone is interested.


2014 Q7 Prestige Plus S Line TDI. Our Q7 is in the shop and they are telling me it has gasoline mixed in the fuel tank. This is supposedly causing the issue with the sudden starting and stopping hesitation at under 3,000 RPMs. I travel a lot and have always looked at fuel mileage. The Q7 is my wife's car and I noticed the hesitation and turbo lag increased drastically after the fix. She has always gotten 21-22 mpg around town in Atlanta. 26-30 mpg on the highway. Currently now we are at 18.5-19 mpg around town and 22-24 mpg on highway. I am like others, they got caught cheating one time what would stop them again. I am more unhappy with the vehicle now than ever. We owned a 2012 before and I complained when we got the 2014 that it got less than the 2012 in mpg and acceleration. Our Audi dealer in North Atlanta swears they never had a complaint on any of the fixed 3.0 Liter engines but after seeing the complaints on here along with others on the lurching, I feel like they are trying to blame the consumer. Now they want $700 to drain the tank and put a fuel filter in to see if that fixes the problem. Anyone else have any experience with this issue or had theirs fixed?
 

JG321PM

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Location
Atlanta
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Update here:
'13 Q7 TDi Prestige currently back at the dealer. Audi of America asked me to bring it in after I called in a complaint.
Shop foreman took the car out with me this morning and acknowledged that it feels way worse, acceleration from slow speed/stopped has a ton of hesitation, it does not drive like it should.
They have the car and supposedly an official Audi engineer is being dispatched to look at the car and 'perform performance modifications.'
If they followed the standard procedure for applying the fix, I can't see how other people could not be experiencing this.
69k miles btw in case anyone is interested.
2014 Q7 Prestige Plus S Line TDI. Our Q7 is in the shop and they are telling me it has gasoline mixed in the fuel tank. This is supposedly causing the issue with the sudden starting and stopping hesitation at under 3,000 RPMs. I travel a lot and have always looked at fuel mileage. The Q7 is my wife's car and I noticed the hesitation and turbo lag increased drastically after the fix. She has always gotten 21-22 mpg around town in Atlanta. 26-30 mpg on the highway. Currently now we are at 18.5-19 mpg around town and 22-24 mpg on highway. I am like others, they got caught cheating one time what would stop them again. I am more unhappy with the vehicle now than ever. We owned a 2012 before and I complained when we got the 2014 that it got less than the 2012 in mpg and acceleration. Our Audi dealer in North Atlanta swears they never had a complaint on any of the fixed 3.0 Liter engines but after seeing the complaints on here along with others on the lurching, I feel like they are trying to blame the consumer. Now they want $700 to drain the tank and put a fuel filter in to see if that fixes the problem. Anyone else have any experience with this issue or had theirs fixed?
Update here:
'13 Q7 TDi Prestige currently back at the dealer. Audi of America asked me to bring it in after I called in a complaint.
Shop foreman took the car out with me this morning and acknowledged that it feels way worse, acceleration from slow speed/stopped has a ton of hesitation, it does not drive like it should.
They have the car and supposedly an official Audi engineer is being dispatched to look at the car and 'perform performance modifications.'
If they followed the standard procedure for applying the fix, I can't see how other people could not be experiencing this.
69k miles btw in case anyone is interested.

2014 Q7 Prestige Plus S Line TDI. Our Q7 is in the shop and they are telling me it has gasoline mixed in the fuel tank. This is supposedly causing the issue with the sudden starting and stopping hesitation at under 3,000 RPMs. I travel a lot and have always looked at fuel mileage. The Q7 is my wife's car and I noticed the hesitation and turbo lag increased drastically after the fix. She has always gotten 21-22 mpg around town in Atlanta. 26-30 mpg on the highway. Currently now we are at 18.5-19 mpg around town and 22-24 mpg on highway. I am like others, they got caught cheating one time what would stop them again. I am more unhappy with the vehicle now than ever. We owned a 2012 before and I complained when we got the 2014 that it got less than the 2012 in mpg and acceleration. Our Audi dealer in North Atlanta swears they never had a complaint on any of the fixed 3.0 Liter engines but after seeing the complaints on here along with others on the lurching, I feel like they are trying to blame the consumer. Now they want $700 to drain the tank and put a fuel filter in to see if that fixes the problem. Anyone else have any experience with this issue or had theirs fixed? 85,000 miles on our Q7
 

Performance_Addict

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Location
Michigan
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI Prestige
I have a 2014 Q7 TDI Prestige that I purchased earlier this year from Florida. Had 69K. It also has the emissions fix. I noticed the problem early on my drive home and thought I had bad fuel. I had the trans flushed, fuel filter swapped, engine flushed, new oil filter, trans fluid flushed and the problem keeps getting worse. I just did the trans memory reset. I will drive it tomorrow and see if that helps. Otherwise, I am looking for a new ECU/TCU tune (Malone) to resolve the issue. Not happy the way it drives at all. Sluggish takeoff on light acceleration, the trans seems to be confused which gear to be in 1-3 gears. Taking a corner, the car seems to be dead on light acceleration. Both scenarios resolve if I use medium to full acceleration from a stop or when taking corners. I feel your pain. I will post back if I find something that worked...
 
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