A/C Stopped working

aja8888

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Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Ouch! the A/C in my 2002 Golf GLS, which was working fine all year, just quit today. The compressor does not engage, period. I searched threads and found several that lead me to believe its a fan control module.

The fans do not come on with the engine off, A/C button pushed in, and the ignition key on. I believe they should at least run on slow speed with this test.

What fuses should I check to eliminate the possibilty of a blown fuse? I checked fuse 5 and it is not blown. The Bently doesn't seem much of a help here.

Also, does anyone have a part number for the fan control module?

Thanks,

Tony
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
A4 air conditioner check for after May 1999 Rev 4

** This guide is for Manual Air Conditioning, with two speed fans on A4's built after May 1999. Rev 4 12/7/2008
**Turn the key on, AC on, and select an interior fan speed. Verify that both cooling fans run in slow speed.
**If they do not, then perform test #1 in the post below. If they do run, then go to the Air Conditioner Control Circuit test below.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2295312&postcount=21

The post mentioned above has a simple fan test (#1), that should be independent of the Fan Control Module. This might be a good early way to determine how to direct your efforts, towards the radiator/condenser fans, or towards the Air Conditioner Control circuits.

To test the Air Conditioner Control Circuits:
Original Posted 11/16/2005
By Jim Newkirk
Validated for TDI’s after May 1999 by Dan Goldston October of 2008. A few comments added.
“ The problem involved a 2000 Jetta TDI ALH manual A/C system with no compressor clutch operation. On this vehicle, the cooling fan and A/C compressor operation are controlled by the J293 fan control module, which is usually located in the driver's front corner of the engine compartment on the lower frame rail. The J293 module has both a 14-pin connector identified as the T14 connector in Volkswagen wiring diagrams and a four-pin connector identified as the T4a connector. ”

This summer has been a hot one, and I'm sure you have seen your share of air conditioning problems. Unfortunately, A/C systems have grown steadily more complex and difficult to diagnose.
The problem involved a 2000 Jetta ALH TDI manual A/C system with no compressor clutch operation. On this vehicle, the cooling fan and A/C compressor operation are controlled by the J293 fan control module, which is usually located in the left front corner of the engine compartment on the lower frame rail, sort of under the battery. The J293 module has both a 14-pin connector identified as the T14 connector in Volkswagen wiring diagrams and a four-pin connector identified as the T4a connector.
Before you get started with detailed troubleshooting, check:
Fuses 5, 16, 25 on the cabin fuse panel. Check voltages on both sides.
Fuses S164 (the center metal fuse#3 above the battery) and S180 the inboard of three plastic fuses above the battery, #8)
To diagnose this system, starting on the T14 connector:
1) Start and idle the vehicle. Select "A/C on" at maximum cooling and "blower on" at high speed.
2) Check for 12 volts at the T14 connector pin No. 8 (T14/8). This 12-volt signal comes from the A/C switch and requests both cooling fans on at low speed and compressor activation. (Through fuse 25 and the fresh air blower switch.)
3) Check for 12 volts at pin T14/9. This voltage is a switched ignition source and will have 12 volts when the ignition is in the "on" position.(Through fuse 5.)
4) Check for 12 volts at pin T14/4. This is a constant battery source and should read 12 volts at all times from fuse S16.
5) Check for a good ground at pin T14/6.
6) Check for 12 volts at all times at the four-pin connector, T4a pins T4a/1 and T4a/3 from fuses S164 and S180, respectively.
7) Turn off the ignition. Remove the T14 connector and check for continuity between pins T14/14 and T14/5 on harness side to ensure proper operation of the F38 ambient temperature switch. Continuity must be present if the ambient air temperature is above 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Reconnect the T14 connector and restart the vehicle.
8) Check pin T14/2 using a duty cycle meter. If the refrigerant charge in the system is normal, about 30 percent to 35 percent duty should be indicated at pin T14/2 without the compressor engaged. The duty cycle signal is supplied by the G65 pressure sensor in response to system pressure changes. A duty cycle above 90 percent or below 20 percent will command the compressor off. (The values for duty cycle here in item 8 came from the original posting. Using my own vehicle as a reference I think the duty cycle numbers may be off a bit. If anyone has a definitive reference for them I would really like to have it. My G65 pressure sensor is linear with {pressure = (duty cycle times 6.47) minus 64.7 psi}. I think that the low pressure shutoff for the fans and compressor will occur at DC=12.5 or 17.5 psi, and reset by DC=20 or 65 psig, I think the fans would kick into fast speed at about DC=46 or 232 psig, and reset at DC=40 or 195 psig. I think the compressor (not sure the fans would stop) will stop at DC=82 or 465 psig, and reset at about DC=64 or 350 psig. This is based on the pressure transducer using the same operating points as the old pressure switch, and assumes that my G65 is still properly calibrated. I apologize for not having more concrete information. See the table below.)
9) Check for an 11-volt reference voltage at pin T14/3. The reference voltage originates in the J293 fan control module and can be grounded by |the power control module (PCM) under certain circumstances (typically wide open throttle or vehicle overheat conditions) to turn the A/C compressor off.
If zero volts are present, the PCM is commanding "compressor off" or the wiring harness is shorted to ground. Raise vehicle idle speed above 2500 rpm and observe compressor operation and voltage at pin T14/3. If the voltage at pin T14/3 returns to 11 volts with the idle speed above 2500 rpm and compressor operation resumes, then a throttle basic setting procedure is needed and must be performed with a factory-compatible, bi-directional scan tool. Note: A loss of throttle basic settings will keep the compressor from activating.
If all previous tests have passed, check the T14 connector pin T14/10 for 12 volts. This pin is the output signal to the compressor clutch coil. If all the other tests have passed and there is no voltage at pin T14/10, this indicates a faulty fan control module. As you can see, turning on an A/C clutch is not a simple function on late model vehicles, and systems that you might not associate with an A/C problem can stop you and your customer from keeping cool. Be sure to check Direct-Hit's Hotline Archive section for more diagnostic procedures and tips.
Good luck, Dan

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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Tony,
Please provide any hints, tips and corrections, and I will update the troubleshooting guide.
I think you will be the first one to go through it.

Dan
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
I'll post back tomorrow late in the day after I get the car up in the air and get after it. Now to get out my trusty old digital meter....

Good thing it is getting cool here now.:D

Tony
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
top of battery check found this:



and the fuse socket:



Well, I didn't have a spare fuse and the socket looks like c**p, but a minor clean up made the fan circuits work. I may have to invest in a used or new socket/connector panel and a new fuse.

Thanks for your help guys.

Tony
 

mtbr297

Vendor
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Ft. Worth, TX., USA
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, Seat Leon FR PD 150 6 speed.
Looks like it got a little hot. I may have a spare connector panel on the wrecked car I have been canibalizing.
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Steve: That would be great if you had a panel. I had a hard time extracting the fuse and broke it as you can see.

Let me know if you have one. It's back together with a clean up by me but I don't want to leave it like this for the long run. Fortunately, it is cool now and thw A/C is not needed so maybe the fan won't be an issue.

Thanks,

Tony
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
So your fans now work in slow speed when AC is selected?

That type of overheating of the fuse has been attributed to the high speed fans rapidly cycling off and on. Have you had a slow speed fan fail before now?

Just curious.

Dan
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
DanG144 said:
So your fans now work in slow speed when AC is selected?

That type of overheating of the fuse has been attributed to the high speed fans rapidly cycling off and on. Have you had a slow speed fan fail before now?

Just curious.

Dan
Dan, I'll get back on that. I didn't check the slow speed cycle after I finished due to another committment. I'll check it after work tomorrow. and post back.

Tony
 

aja8888

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Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Well, after work I checked the slow speed on the fans and they did not work. I didn't use the A/C today either, but THAT is not working again.:mad: Looks like a troubleshooting session this coming Saturday.

Tony
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
A4 coolant fan troubleshooting

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2295312&postcount=21

Tony,
It sounds as if you may wish to start with your coolant fans, instead of with your air conditioner circuits.

While they do have a lot of commonality, there are differences, also.

The fans can be started from the AC system (read Fan Control Module) or from the thermoswitch, for slow speed fans.

That fuse you found overheated (S180 - fuse 8 above the battery) is directly for the fans. It supplies the slow speed fans by itself. It also works in parallel with fuse 3 above the battery (S164 -a 40 amp metal fuse) to supply the fast speed fans. So If fuse 8 connections are overheating, check the path of fuse 3 to the fan control module, and ensure that its conducting path is clean and healthy, too.

So after you fix that problem, get a good fuse holder and fuse, with no connection overheating problem, you may want to do test #1 in the attached post. This will verify that your fans can run in slow speed, from the thermoswitch, which does not go through the Fan Control Module, and is tested with the key OFF.

This way you can fairly quickly concentrate on the fans or on the AC. I will be off this weekend, so contact me if you need to. Look for a PM.

I have updated my post above with the troubleshooting directions, also. You may want to print it out again, as well as print out the referenced post in the other thread.

Dan
 
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aja8888

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Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Update: Replaced the fuse holder after finding corrosion at the battery terminals. The grounds were cleaned also. Low speed test is good and A/C works fine. Time will tell, but I firmly believe that corrosion is an issue with the battery setup and critical grounding and fuse components in that area.

It is certainly imperative to keep the entire area of the battery and box corrosion-free. Once your battery starts developing corrosion at the positive post (battery on the way out, I believe), the problems can spread to nearby electrical components such as the fuse holder and grounds.

Thanks to Dan for making a testing procedure that makes sense and is easy to follow. The Bentley manual is little help here.`
 

njgedr

New member
Joined
May 9, 2014
Location
Ortonville, MI
TDI
2003 Jetta
Well... this thread is very old, but maybe someone can help

I am stuck on step 9

"9) Check for an 11-volt reference voltage at pin T14/3. The reference voltage originates in the J293 fan control module and can be grounded by |the power control module (PCM) under certain circumstances (typically wide open throttle or vehicle overheat conditions) to turn the A/C compressor off.
If zero volts are present, the PCM is commanding "compressor off" or the wiring harness is shorted to ground. Raise vehicle idle speed above 2500 rpm and observe compressor operation and voltage at pin T14/3. If the voltage at pin T14/3 returns to 11 volts with the idle speed above 2500 rpm and compressor operation resumes, then a throttle basic setting procedure is needed and must be performed with a factory-compatible, bi-directional scan tool. Note: A loss of throttle basic settings will keep the compressor from activating."

I didn't get an 11 volt reference. It mentions that the signal should come up to 11 Volts above 2500 rpm if the throttle is the issue. Mine does not, so what else could it be. I was wondering what other things beside the throttle basic setting could be triggering the pcm to send a no go signal to the ac compressor.

I also want to check at the computer what the signal is, to make sure there isn't a short somewhere along the way. I am not so great at tracking down wires, so I was hoping someone would know off hand or at least know where to look.
 
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