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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old October 12th, 2019, 17:09   #106
nicklockard
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Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
The spike in engine replacements, or at least, engines in need of replacement, that our shop sees, is pretty astounding. Granted, *most* of the time it stems from neglect, but it isn't like THAT is anything new. People have been neglecting cars as long as cars have been around.
It is the lack of resilience so many of the newer stuff has makes poor choices but more costly much more quickly. We've probably had 50+ GM engines through our shop this year that needed replacement. We do not sell all the jobs, since in many cases the owner cannot afford it, and/or the vehicle in question is a valueless turd that would only serve to lower the value of the new engine once installed. That 1.4L turbo engine GM has is one of the worst (Trax, optional in the Cruze and Sonic, as well as the Buick versions of those cars). Followed closely by the 2.4L DI Ecotec engine and that 3.6L V6 that GM cannot seem to figure out the chain drive (they are on the 6th or 7th revision now). And of course the truck V6s and V8s with that stupid cylinder deactivation nonsense and cam-in-a-cam phasing stuff that has zero tolerance for poor oil condition/level. We JUST did a 5.3L in a 2014 Silverado last week.
And Ford must've realized 20 weight oil is not any good in the trucks, because the 2016 F250 6.2L V8 we did a couple weeks ago (which spec'd 5w20) was replaced with a brand new updated version (seriously, updated... since 2016!?!?!?!) with an oil cap that showed 5w30, a different oil pan, dipstick, and dipstick tube, with a little note attached to it stating the change in oil requirements and the additional .75 q of capacity.
FCA did something similar with the Hemi V8s in their trucks, that now spec 0w40 instead of the 5w20 they were using.
I think this is why Honda is having so many problems with their turbo fours, they still spec a 0w20 in them. Most of the rest (Hyundai, Ford, GM) may spec a 5w20 or 0w20 in non-turbo engines, but still use 5w30 in the turbos. Which is why I fear for the new VAG engines with the 508/9 0w20. I regularly see EA888s chomp through 5w40 like a fat guy through donuts on cheat day, I can only imagine the perpetually dry dipsticks that will ensue with 0w20 in the crankcase.
OH, you're going to like this. Whenever I drive my damn-near bullet proof 1998 Mercedes E420 lately, I tend to get thumbs up and admiring looks. It kinda surprised me at first. Some people love seeing old cars running original everything and running well down the road.

If manufacturer's of today's cars put as much attention into mechanical serviceability and reliability as they did into touch screens and interior quality, things would be way different. But they basically gave up on making them more robust and better. After all, planned obsolescence pays their bills.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 17:33   #107
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Originally Posted by Matt-98AHU View Post
By the time the PDs arrived here, that number was down to 0.7 g/mi through the end of 2006.

The 2009 commonrails and later were supposed to be certified to tier 2 bin 5 rules, which meant they were to emit no more than 0.07 g/mi NOx...

People often ask if my TDI (2003) is "one of the cheaters", I tell them it isn't, but it is legally allowed to be much dirtier than the cheaters, so maybe it's an honorary cheater?

I never knew the numbers for allowable NOX, crazy that it was cut by %90 from one generation to the next, no wonder there were no TDIs between 2006 and 2009.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 17:41   #108
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I got that question at a gathering with friends today. One person was surprised I was "allowed" to drive a diesel car. Right or wrong, VW's cheating and the court's response has, perhaps irreparably, damaged diesel's reputation.
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Old October 12th, 2019, 17:58   #109
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I got that question at a gathering with friends today. One person was surprised I was "allowed" to drive a diesel car. Right or wrong, VW's cheating and the court's response has, perhaps irreparably, damaged diesel's reputation.
Yes, yes it has. And the damage worsens with every ill-informed anti-diesel article that gets published, and they get published all the time in the wake of dieselgate. But exactly none of them offer actual numbers or historical perspective of regulations. Just "diesel, bad."

@Jackbombay, hah. I've said something similar before when some random person came asking questions if my car was one of the cheating ones.

One instance I remember pretty clearly, I was in Oregon a couple years ago filling my own tank (which is an odd sight for a small car owner to be doing) and a few motorcyclists roll into the station and one of them rolls up to me and asks if my Jetta was one of the emissions cheating cars. Now, I was driving a Mk5 with the BRM in it, so anyone could make that mistake. Same bodystyle DID come offered with the cheating diesel afterall.

But anyway, I was thinking of being a bit of a smartass myself and said "No, actually this one is NOT one of the cars affected by the scandal. It's actually dirtier, it was just legal for them to be that dirty in 2006."

Blank stare in response... yeah, the joke didn't really land or register how much of that statement is true... but I was entertained! Sometimes that's all that matters. heh
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Old October 12th, 2019, 20:11   #110
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Originally Posted by Matt-98AHU View Post
Blank stare in response... yeah, the joke didn't really land or register how much of that statement is true... but I was entertained! Sometimes that's all that matters. heh
I frequently offered a similar response as I had a MkIV (BEW), and my wife had a 2006 (BRM). As you said, most people offered a blank stare as if they couldn't believe their ears and what I said. Driving my wife's post-fix '13 2.0L JSW TDI still puts a smile on my face. I see why everyone loved these cars, the extra 40hp that the 2.0L has over the 1.9L is addicting... I'm glad VW didn't simply send them all to the scrap yard after the recall.
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Old Yesterday, 04:27   #111
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I am with Matt on this one, regarding the media's skewed approach to reporting the whole fiasco. If one were to go by that and that alone, you'd think the higher ups at VAG were intentionally trying to destroy the planet as quickly as they could.

I've had to educate the "educated" on this very subject many, many times.

I do not, nor have I ever, condoned VAG's chicanery on this. I have, and do, disagree with the draconian regulatory hurdles that pushed them to it however. And as you'd expect, the guise of "clean air" gets whitewashed over the bigger picture in that we've (elected lawmakers, many of which shouldn't even be in their lifelong positions drowning in money) allowed ourselves to be in hasn't really been helped by this. Poorer fuel economy vehicles dominate the consumer buying market, much of the "replacements" for these "dirty" TDIs are consuming more fuel than they ever did, not to mention the environmental cost of the disposal of thousands of perfectly good working order vehicles and the factories that built these replacements. If clean air was what they were after, this didn't do anything for it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:17   #112
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Apparently your feelings were terribly hurt by whatever awful treatment you received as a commenter somewhere, poor you, but you are dancing around the basic point, which is that automakers are not supposed to engineer their fleets to what you or they think is a reasonable standard. They are supposed to follow the laws of the land, which they did not do. And made millions. It really is quite simple. And yes, they could have complied. It would have caused concessions and compromises, both to fuel efficiency and in areas like including larger urea tanks, etc. They would have had to pass these costs along to the consumer. They would have had angry customers complaining about their crappy emissions components, which they have now, anyway. They chose to take the ethically bankrupt route. And probably barely thought about it.

This really was an interesting conversation with a fair amount of give and take, an exchange of thought provoking views, until you tried to make us digress into relitigating an old, dumber version of the argument. Do you really think that it is ok to ignore laws you don’t agree with? Is this case on a par with, say, refusing to kill innocent people just because your commanding officer told you to do it? You know what, let’s not even bother. I just pity anyone who ever does a deal with you, ever. You seem like a person who’d “forget” to tell a buyer about the termite infestation in your house for sale, and sleep like a baby at night. After all, everyone does it, right? You’re really the victim here.
I'll take a further step back. They (VW, MB, BMW, big three) all had a chance to debate the proposed regulations and try to get the EPA to slow down on their proposals but the first three on my list chose to walk out of the meeting room and stop any meaningful discussion. I am by no means saying that they got what they deserve just that if you want to change something, you don't do it by walking out the door.
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Old Yesterday, 06:28   #113
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I got that question at a gathering with friends today. One person was surprised I was "allowed" to drive a diesel car. Right or wrong, VW's cheating and the court's response has, perhaps irreparably, damaged diesel's reputation.
I get raised eyebrows when I tell people that I don't own a gasser anymore, especially when they see me pull up in my Ram 1500. Then the comment turns to "I didn't know you could get a diesel in a smaller pickup".
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Old Yesterday, 07:23   #114
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I'll take a further step back. They (VW, MB, BMW, big three) all had a chance to debate the proposed regulations and try to get the EPA to slow down on their proposals but the first three on my list chose to walk out of the meeting room and stop any meaningful discussion. I am by no means saying that they got what they deserve just that if you want to change something, you don't do it by walking out the door.
This is my standpoint too.

But, I'd also point out that AFAIK GM and BMW didn't pull the same software trickery that VW did.
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Old Yesterday, 07:26   #115
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I get raised eyebrows when I tell people that I don't own a gasser anymore, especially when they see me pull up in my Ram 1500. Then the comment turns to "I didn't know you could get a diesel in a smaller pickup".
I get similar reactions when I tell people my BMW is a diesel. But the one that no one expects is my colleague's Cruze.
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Old Yesterday, 16:51   #116
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I still think that the most sensible policy is to harmonize our emissions policies with that of Korea, Japan, and Europe. It works for nearly every other industry to harmonize rule sets via ISO standards organization.
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