Jetta won't start

I have just started trouble shooting a 2002 Jetta (128kmi, owned since 106kmi) that cranks well but won't start following a 3mo. period of non-op while vacationing. Battery was disconnected while gone, held charge and is topped off. Dash indicators appear okay. Fuel tank full. It's hard to see for sure whether there is fuel in the transparent line at the filter, but it may be empty.

- Will start with a fuse and glow plug check.
- What is the proper way to check for fuel delivery, pressure?
- Where should I listen to hear the main fuel pump (not sure of location)?
- Is there a recommended shop manual?
- Is there anything else? Other links or places on the forum I should check?

History: replaced EGR valve a year ago (diaphragm leak), ran fine both before and after, the CE light stayed off after the repair. A rodent once chewed through an injector return line (it ran but leaked and smelled of fuel) and ran well after replacement. No rodent nests of damage evident this time.

Update 11/2/2017:
Thanks to all for the useful information, here's the latest:

1. Removing the inlet line to the fuel filter one can freely pull fuel from the tank. Replaced line.

2. Removed injection pump feed line (the clear one from the filter) from injection pump (IP) inlet and can freely pull fuel until bubbles are purged using a floor standing Mityvac extractor.

3. With the clear tube full the rubber portion of the hose near the IP was pinched off and fuel remained bubble free until the tube was over the IP nipple and the pinch removed, afterwhich the tube drained completely (hose clamp not in place yet, don't know if that mattered).

4. Pinched tank return hose at the fuel "T", removed return line from Injector 4 and applied vacuum to the return line end of the IP with a catch bottle before the Mityvac. Captured perhaps an oz. of fuel in the bottle and pulled air (slowly) for over 20 min. at vacuum levels ranging from 5 to 15in., repumping once or twice. When doing this with a hand squeezed Mityvac the vacuum level bleeds from 15in. to near zero in ~ 10-15sec. - energized the fuel cut-off solenoid for a minute or two but it appeared to make no difference to the flow or leak down rate. Listened around the IP but couldn't hear sounds of air leaks.

5. The fuel cut-off solenoid valve at the IP receives 12vt. and clicks when the key is turned on and also responds to a direct jumper wire to the battery.

6. Disconnecting the clear fuel line to the IP at the filter while applying 15-20in vac. at the IP return line (Item 4) - one feels only the slightest vacuum, almost none, when placing a finger over the IP inlet line indicating that there is very little draw from the filter. The rate of air drawn from the return line and bleed down rate of the vacuum remains unaffected whether or not the IP inlet line is blocked or open to air.

Update 11/18/2017 (twice):

7. Rigged a 16oz. bottle above and directly to the IP through an inline filter, pressurized with hand Mityvac, feeding most of the bottle to the IP. Noticed fuel dripping from below the IP on driver's (output) side, but couldn't locate source.
9. Loosened nuts at No. 3 & 4 injectors and cranked starter until fuel flowed from nuts (~ 5 sec). Tightened nuts - Cranked, fired a few times though didn't start.
11. While cranking noticed a ~ 1/16in. dia. free stream of fuel squirting to right (toward drivers side) from under drivers side of the pump, which continued dripping for a while after cranking. The stream appeared to be coming from either the very bottom of the pump or just below it. It does not appear to be coming from either of the large rectangular gaskets that seal the major components of the pump case.

Questions: Are there any easy suspects such as rubber hoses under the pump that may be leaking (chewed by rodents, etc.)? Pressure relief valve on pump, etc? Anything else to check before diving in for inspection, seal replacement, etc.?

Will look at IP related posts and links, including those contained in Joester post of 11/15, but would appreciate suggestions for specific links as I miss something. Also, have washed hoses and wiring that got splashed.

Thanks.

Update: 02/02/2018: Determined that the head o-ring must be leaking and am ready to try replacing the o-Ring without removing the IP QA cover. Have the viton o-ring (and spare) from Dieselgeek. Have studied the stepwise instructions for o-ring replacement by stretching it over the head.

Main question: to ensure the IP plunger is at full stroke, specifically how should I rotate the engine? Will remove the timing belt cover per the instructions on the belt change - is it okay to put a socket wrench on the cam pulley nut and torque it from there (CW as one faces it), or do I need to turn the cam with the lever tool made for the purpose? My concern is if there would be a risk of over torquing the nut, etc.

Second question: I've read that it's not necessary to do this with this particular engine (2002 Jetta) because the plunger always is under compression, is this really true and am I being over cautious? It would be easier if I didn't have to expose the timing belt, but would hate to learn the hard way. Would prefer answers from those who know for certain, as opposed to well meaning opinion. Thanks.

How long have you tried cranking it for? This is a semi mechanical pump and it's crank driven. They're self priming, but it might take awhile. There's not many things to go wrong on this motor, so it should fire up with a little persistence.

Odds are it's just lost fuel prime.

Owain@malonetuning said:

How long have you tried cranking it for? This is a semi mechanical pump and it's crank driven. They're self priming, but it might take awhile. There's not many things to go wrong on this motor, so it should fire up with a little persistence.

Odds are it's just lost fuel prime.

Click to expand...

1) It should not need much cranking to start up.

As long as battery and starter are sufficient to get about 250 rpm.

2) They are not self-priming up to 2003. No lift pump in tank.

3) You are probably correct.

OP you should check to make sure you see fuel in the line. If you don't have the clear line as in the 2003 model you need to use a mityvac to make sure the injection pump (IP) is full of fuel. This is done by using by applying suction on the output line of the IP. You should see fuel in that line when doing this. After getting fuel there, then you would need to crack open the hard injector lines one at a time while someone cranks the engine. Fuel should spit out.

Refer to the no-start thread that's a sticky on this forum.

All of the older pumps are self priming, including IDIs. How long that takes,how frustrating it can be, and whether your battery/starter will handle it is another story. Best to use a mityvac as you mentioned.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/f...-fuel-lines-mk4-vw-jetta-golf-new-beetle-tdi/

"No electric fuel pump
The injection pump is self priming but it'll take forever to start if the fuel lines are dry. This is hard on the battery and can overheat the starter. By priming, most of the air is removed and the engine should start with minimal cranking. If the fuel lines weren't run dry, just fill the filter and leave it at that."


I agree though, shouldn't take that long to start.

Check the anti shutter valve is open.
It's attached to the intake manifold when the big air hose is.

If you don't see a small air bubble in the highest point in the clear line there's no fuel in it.

There's no fuel pump other then in the injector pump.

Put a few rags around the bottom of the injectors for now.
If you crack the injector line loose you should get fuel coming out when you crank it.
Only snug the lines for now, not to tight.
Use a vacuum pump to suck on the fuel return line at the fuel filter going into a bottle. Plug the fitting at the fuel filter and pinch the line on the other side of the plastic tee on the fuel filter.

You may have to run 12 volts to the fuel solenoid on the back of the injector pump.
You should see the fuel going through the clear line.
Once you get most of the air out of the fuel getting back to the bottle reconnect the fuel line & take the clamp off.

Loosen the 4 injectors lines again,
You should have the rubber fuel lines on and not clamped.

Have someone crank the engine, after a few seconds you should see fuel dribbling out of the injectors in a few seconds.
Stop, wipe the area of any fuel.

Tighten the metal lines and try to start it again.

Owain@malonetuning said:

All of the older pumps are self priming, including IDIs. How long that takes,how frustrating it can be, and whether your battery/starter will handle it is another story. Best to use a mityvac as you mentioned.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/f...-fuel-lines-mk4-vw-jetta-golf-new-beetle-tdi/

"No electric fuel pump
The injection pump is self priming but it'll take forever to start if the fuel lines are dry. This is hard on the battery and can overheat the starter. By priming, most of the air is removed and the engine should start with minimal cranking. If the fuel lines weren't run dry, just fill the filter and leave it at that."


I agree though, shouldn't take that long to start.

Click to expand...

Ok they are self-priming, but impractical for people to do it that way rendering that whole point moot. It's not recommended people run the starter that long and it will take a long time if the fuel lines have lost their prime. It would take so long you can call it impossible.

Furthermore, if the IP is empty he is going to need to clear out the air in the hard injector lines. That is not happening on its own so it's not enough to keep running the starter because you will not "get there from here".

jokila said:

Furthermore, if the IP is empty he is going to need to clear out the air in the hard injector lines. That is not happening on its own so it's not enough to keep running the starter because you will not "get there from here".

Click to expand...

With the pressure the pump puts out to the injectors I would think (ut-oh) the air in the line would compress to the point of that pressure and open the injector.

This theory is based on -if- the 'delivery valve' at the back of the pump has a check valve in it to hold any pressure left in the steel line.
The 'delivery valve' is the fitting at the back of the pump.

ken2116 said:

- Where should I listen to hear the main fuel pump (not sure of location)?

Click to expand...

As mentioned, the injection pump is the only fuel pump in this model, so no electric sound you could listen for pre-start.



This thread is a helpful guide when troubleshooting no-start symptoms
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398

Update to original "Jetta won't start" post

Thanks all. I've edited the original post to include update details.

Am also new to actually using the tdiclub and after reading posted instructions have several specific questions on how to use the forum. To whom should I address these?

Not much for that really. Moderators are very good but not quick to respond.
You can look at this list of all forums, maybe find something helpful.
Best to just grow a thick skin and remember folks here will generally just try to help.
I can recommend this excellent user contribute search engine (use the input box towards the center left).
For your particular problem I would loosen all 4 injector nuts, put down some rags and crank a bit to get fuel spray.

ken2116 said:

Thanks all. I've edited the original post to include update details.
Am also new to actually using the tdiclub and after reading posted instructions have several specific questions on how to use the forum. To whom should I address these?

Click to expand...

Link to the General Forum Usage:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/faq.php

Once you have fuel to the pump (use the mityvac -- remove return line going TO the Thermo-T on the fuel filter -- not the one back to the tank -- and apply suction until you get fuel. This may take a while, as the pump usually offers quite a bit of resistance when not rotating, then replace line to the "T"), crack injector #1 nut and wrap the nut with a towel (to keep the mess from going EVERYWHERE, otherwise it WILL.)

Crank with someone watching said nut. When fuel starts to come out in quantity STOP. This should take no more than 10 seconds or so. DO NOT crank for a very long period of time -- it's extremely hard on the starter and can overheat it, which is bad news. If you get no fuel flow in ~10 seconds then stop, let the starter cool for 5 minutes or more, and do the purge with the Mityvac again -- you have an air leak or didn't get the air out of the pump.

Snug up the nut and crank again. It should start, but will run very rough until the other three injectors purge the air in them and their lines (~10-15 seconds or less.)

Genesis said:

Once you have fuel to the pump (use the mityvac -- remove return line going TO the Thermo-T on the fuel filter -- not the one back to the tank -- and apply suction until you get fuel. This may take a while, as the pump usually offers quite a bit of resistance when not rotating, then replace line to the "T"), crack injector #1 nut and wrap the nut with a towel (to keep the mess from going EVERYWHERE, otherwise it WILL.)

Click to expand...

I always crack all the lines loose when I'm priming at that point.
Shop rags along the injector lineup as well.
Motor seems to smooth out quickly once running.
Watch for leaks for a while.
Dabbing with a paper towel finds any leaks when you see the damp spot in it.

I've never needed to crack more than one injector line nut.

However, do make sure the anti-shudder valve (on the EGR) is not stuck shut first! You can chase your tail for quite a while if it is, and the engine will NOT start if that is stuck closed.

Genesis said:

However, do make sure the anti-shudder valve (on the EGR) is not stuck shut first! You can chase your tail for quite a while if it is, and the engine will NOT start if that is stuck closed.

Click to expand...

That one got me a few times years ago.
The first few times I closed the hood and went back later or while I was checking things it started again.
The last time I slammed the hood and it started.
Got home, shut it and it would not start.
Don't know why I looked at the ASV and touched it and it snapped open.

ASV is okay. Next move will be to crack the injectors and crank. If that fails to draw from the filter will try temporarily rigging an elevated source of fuel to the IP pump to get it primed.

ken2116 said:

ASV is okay. Next move will be to crack the injectors and crank. If that fails to draw from the filter will try temporarily rigging an elevated source of fuel to the IP pump to get it primed.

Click to expand...

If you get it primed that way you can run the car from that can.
Run a return line to the can.
I use an inexpensive in line fuel filter with a setup like that when I run diesel purge through the pump.

wonneber said:

If you get it primed that way you can run the car from that can.
Run a return line to the can.
I use an inexpensive in line fuel filter with a setup like that when I run diesel purge through the pump.

Click to expand...

AND make sure to secure the lines so that they don't pop out, especially the return line! Don't ask me how I know about this Suffice it to say, the pump can flow quite a bit of fuel: and LOTs of fuel is returned through the return line.

Edited original post with new information 11/18/17. Fuel flow from under IP when cranking.

Is this what you're experiencing/seeing?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=483565

ken2116 said:

Edited original post with new information 11/18/17. Fuel flow from under IP when cranking.

Click to expand...

Most likely from the head seal.

It was the head seal.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Mark this down to inexperience with these pumps and an extreme denial of accepting that it was a leaky seal.
Line 7 in my post, pressure priming from a bottle, and seeing the resulting leak finally convinced me. A Dieselgeek o-ring kit fixed it right up, and I can't say enough good things about the quality of their instructions.

Two thoughts on the o-ring repair. 1) despite a career working with o-rings on vacuum deposition equipment, I slipped and put a scratch across the groove with a pointed steel tool requiring nearly an hour of polishing out the scratch with a strip of 220 grit wet/dry emery paper wrapped around a carved down chopstick, the paper lubricated with Vaseline to confine the grit. Next time I'll use a purpose made brass o-ring pick, or try one arm of a narrow plastic tweezer.

2) The step where the slippery, lubricated new o-ring is stretched and slipped over the pump head can be tricky - stretching it over the head while avoiding potential contamination. Consider making a "funnel" from an appropriately sized plastic drink bottle to guide it over and in. The o-ring also can be pre-stretched over the same bottle or similar smooth cylinder to relieve the tension - once in the groove it relaxes back to original size.

Excellent work! Happy to hear you won the battle.