Timing chain or belt?

I have read conflicting information about the timing set on the current TDI, one source listed it as a timing chain and another listed it as a timing belt. Can anybody shed some light on this with first hand knowledge? Thanks, and sorry if this is a topic already covered.

Belt.

Depends on which "current" North American TDI you're referring to.

2.0L 4 cyl commonrail = belt
3.0L V6 commonrail = several chains

^what he said

Not in the 4 cyl ones. They are all belt. V6-V10-V12 are all 4 chain set ups.

jasonTDI said:

... V6-V10-V12 are all 4 chain set ups.

Click to expand...

I thought the V10 had gear drive?

I was afraid of that, I had a 2001 Golf TDi I bought new and that was my biggest concern with that car. I have put to many timing belts on cars over the years, it is a very unnecessary expense and worry.

5GEAR said:

I was afraid of that, I had a 2001 Golf TDi I bought new and that was my biggest concern with that car. I have put to many timing belts on cars over the years, it is a very unnecessary expense and worry.

Click to expand...

You need to replace the belt every 100K mi. It may cost you $1K (a penny a mile?) to have it replaced by a professional. It is an interference engine. If a belt or chain stretches or breaks, THEN you will have an unnecessary expense.

I have Power Strokes that are gear driven and you never have to touch them, my wife has a Honda Fit with a timing chain that will last longer than I ever have to worry about. I have also been very pleasantly surprised at how many miles per gallon I can get with that Fit when we take it on a trip, almost as good as my Golf ever did. I have witnessed first hand the carnage of a broken timing belt, you are right, it isn't pretty.

You change your tires when they wear out... you change your oil when it's no longer doing a good job. It's no different with a timing belt. I've seen far more chains break and stretch than I have belts. I've never actually seen a belt failure when the car was within its lifespan.

Why do they make double-roller timing chain setups for old gas engines... its because the single chains suck.

Fact of life. A TDI will need a TB change.

Interesting, I have the exact opposite experiences. I have owned almost 40 different vehicles in my life with not one issue from a timing chain. I have had to spend time and money on everything I have ever owned with a timing belt. Honda claims (that that for what ever it is worth ) that the timing chains they have are good for the life of the engine. A good friend of mine makes money on the side buying cars with broken timing belts and putting a used engine in them for resale. He so far hasn't found one with a broken chain to do the same. His last purchase just this past weekend was a Jetta with a broken timing belt.... I guess the bottom line is this, I have had lots of experience with both setups, I will take a timing chain any day over a belt. Even if I have to replace the timing chain at some point because of miles, I know I will never need to change one due to age. We have some vehicles in my family that don't see many miles, they stay garaged a lot, good use of a chain in those situations.

Please don't take me as a jerk, I am just gun shy of belts

5GEAR said:

I have Power Strokes that are gear driven and you never have to touch them, my wife has a Honda Fit with a timing chain that will last longer than I ever have to worry about. I have also been very pleasantly surprised at how many miles per gallon I can get with that Fit when we take it on a trip, almost as good as my Golf ever did. I have witnessed first hand the carnage of a broken timing belt, you are right, it isn't pretty.

Click to expand...

1 Gears are noisy and needs oil to lubricate

2 Chains stretch(aka wear out)

3 T/B Belts usually don't break (aka Prothe).The hardware that fails(aka paint and pry job)

4 Belts are cheaper to replace and faster.

5 The Honda Fit for the most part is a throw away car and the TDI in not

Agree w/5Gear...never perosnally seen/heard of a broken tc. It would be nice if VW could find a way to go back to the gear driven valve train, but that would mean no tb service...all about the comeback IMO.

MonsterTDI09 said:

1 Gears are noisy and needs oil to lubricate

2 Chains stretch(aka wear out)

3 T/B Belts usually don't break (aka Prothe).The hardware that fails(aka paint and pry job)

4 Belts are cheaper to replace and faster.

5 The Honda Fit for the most part is a throw away car and the TDI in not

Click to expand...

These are very good points. I will definitely vouch that timing gears are noisy. We have a timing gear setup on our drag car and it whines something fierce.

Timing belts don't bother me on VWs. The ones that scare me are the ones on cars like the Chevrolet Aveo. Those are so bad that Chevrolet had to issue a warranty for a new engine on every car that breaks the belt under 40k miles. I know this because I did a lot of research on them when my girlfriend was about to pull the trigger on one. She didn't end up getting one but I feel like I would have been constanly messing with that car as the EcoTec is an intererence engine with a dual overhead cam setup.

procupine14 said:

...I will definitely vouch that timing gears are noisy. We have a timing gear setup on our drag car and it whines something fierce.

Click to expand...

You have straight cut gears, they are gonna be noisy. Ever owned a old air cooled VW? You never heard their gears, because they weren't straight cut.

We have had a few chain failures on our families fleet of RWD Delta 88's. Of course, those motors [307's or 350 Rockets] were good for over 300k miles before they went... and they weren't interference motors so it wasn't a big deal.

I do agree with you though, this whole 'worry about your timing belt breaking' thing does suck in a way. I had mine done last fall, so hopefully it won't become a worry again for a year or two.

The other thing that sucks is that if the water pump fails, it can also take out your belt.

I bet people spend more money on rims/wheels and other "aesthetic" upgrades than they do on timing belts over the life of the car. Every automobile has expensive replacement parts and problems. I wouldn't trade my tdi for anything.

Secondly, and most importantly, there is something to be said for a part that gets replaced, on schedule, vs a part that "never has to be replaced".

The only problem is, timing chains fail, as do timing belts, but if you never have to touch a timing chain, then you won't, until it fails.

Give me a timing belt any day. Do the job right, don't buy CRAP (prothe) and don't let a dealer do the work, and I bet my timing belt setup will outlast your timing chain, barring any manufacturers defects.

That being said, throughout all my life, I've never had a car, nor have my parents or inlaws, that ever had a broken chain or belt.

Now I am going to try to find some wood to knock on, etc...

All good points fellas! I hear ya on the Fit, I was concerned about it for no more money than it cost, but we have owned it for over 4 years and I can say that I am very impressed by it! We haven't touched it other than regular service, no warranty issues, no check engine light, no problems at all. It drives and rides very nice, and quality otherwise seems to be just fine. For the money difference and very similar fuel mileage I am happy with it. I can not say that for my Golf, it was at the dealer multiple times under warranty for a variety of problems. I do still miss my TDI in many ways though!

Watch out!

5GEAR said:

I do still miss my TDI in many ways though!

Click to expand...

just make sure your wife doesn't find out...

Sounds like you should just buy another FIT.

BTW, just did my timing belt and it was as easy as the belt on my old Acura.

5GEAR said:

I can not say that for my Golf, it was at the dealer multiple times under warranty for a variety of problems.

Click to expand...

This is why I chose not to purchase any sort of warranty for my Beetle because the dealer can't even do warranty work properly.

I realize that some timing gears aren't noisy but then again they aren't always practical for many engines either.

Regardless of chain, belt or any other timing system you can think of, I generally just purchase the car I want and maintain it the way it is supposed to be maintained. One thing I can say is that there was no contest for me after I drove a Honda FIT, Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa, and then the Beetle. You can see what won out even with higher regular maintenance cost for me (who has very little extra money being a college student).

I don't want this to be taken as a rude thing just making a statement. Mostly I'm just saying that if one wants something economical, purchase anything that doesn't come from Europe and look farther east. If you are purchasing it because you love to drive stick with Europe (at least at this price point ). I purchased mine because I love VWs and this was just the most economical VW in the lot.

i bought mine because i'm done with gas/petrol (as a functional driver). It's diesel/biodiesel for me from my first car (81 MB 300D) here on out.

The wife knows I miss the Golf, the Fit is her car and works great for her. She drives mostly short trips in town and to work. I drive mostly trucks and the F250 Powerstroke I drive every day gets 18-20 mpg, which I feel really isn't bad for its size and weight. When I need better mileage we drive her Fit or my Subaru Outback. Now if VW would come out with the 4motion Golf TDI that you can have in Europe, then they would have a customer for life with me We have a nasty driveway and it takes the Subaru or the Powerstroke to navigate it in the winter.

5GEAR said:

Now if VW would come out with the 4motion Golf TDI that you can have in Europe, then they would have a customer for life with me

Click to expand...

Quoted for truthiness.

MonsterTDI09 said:

1 Gears are noisy and needs oil to lubricate

2 Chains stretch(aka wear out)

3 T/B Belts usually don't break (aka Prothe).The hardware that fails(aka paint and pry job)

4 Belts are cheaper to replace and faster.

5 The Honda Fit for the most part is a throw away car and the TDI in not

Click to expand...

Fit is a throw away car???

5GEAR said:

Now if VW would come out with the 4motion Golf TDI that you can have in Europe, then they would have a customer for life with me We have a nasty driveway and it takes the Subaru or the Powerstroke to navigate it in the winter.

Click to expand...

Well, You can always pay some cash and do the conversion

There was a guy from Canada selling one on the Vortex awhile ago and you don't want to know the amount of cash he had into it. I believe it was a 2003 Golf TDI with 6sp manual and Halidex AWD system lifted from an Audi TT. The car was smoking hot though.

I realize that was sort of off topic but I had to share.

Chains don't break.....Sure. Nissan.....huge issue. ALL VR6 cars from the introduction till 99' or so did too. Plus the BS to FIX them is 5X's what a TB change is.

I'll stick to a belt ANY DAY. Even my 23 yr old BMW has a belt. Changed it every so often with no issues and it runs to 7000 + RPM.

jasonTDI said:

Chains don't break.....Sure. Nissan.....huge issue. ALL VR6 cars from the introduction till 99' or so did too. Plus the BS to FIX them is 5X's what a TB change is.

I'll stick to a belt ANY DAY. Even my 23 yr old BMW has a belt. Changed it every so often with no issues and it runs to 7000 + RPM.

Click to expand...

^Well said. I like belts. Easiest way to ensure the engine stays in time. Chains stretch, tensioners weaken and cause crank and cam to go out of phase. Belts make it easy, with a little preventative maintenance, to keep an engine on the road for a long time. 400,000+ miles.

Plus you replace the water pump preventatively rather than wait for it to fail like you would on a chain or gear drive engine.

Matt-98AHU said:

...Plus you replace the water pump preventatively rather than wait for it to fail like you would on a chain or gear drive engine.

Click to expand...

My chain-driven engine uses the serpentine belt to drive the WP, as I'm sure most other's do as well.

I still prefer the belt design, though. Changing a timing chain on the MB is a pain compared to a belt on a tdi.

I prefer licorice. It helps keep the pulleys nice and sticky, plus they never break, but you end up eating them and that's when you find out it doesn't work too well.