2011 TDI oil filter collapse?

harley7991 · Apr 20, 2011

I'm uncertain if this is the right area for this, but here it goes.
I changed the oil on my 2011 Sportwagen TDI @ 2000 miles and found that the filter looked a bit odd. I was wondering if anyone else has observed this? The pleats are coming very close together and I feel this can negatively impact filtering and flow of oil in the engine. Any thoughts?

JSWTDI09 · Apr 20, 2011

It looks a lot like this one. You might want to read this thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=248796&highlight=14700

This is not exactly a new issue.

Have Fun!

Don

frugality · Apr 20, 2011

There's so much surface area on those pleated filters that I wouldn't think it's a problem.

If you are worried about it, though, Mann makes good filters and they are available in the straight-pleated variety:

http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=495

El Dobro · Apr 20, 2011

I started that thread with the collapsed filter and with my next oil change, I'll be using the Mann filter instead of the zig-zag from VW.

migbro · Apr 20, 2011

Zig-zag pleats are not a great idea for an oil filter. Someone at VW came up with this concept as a way to increase the total surface area of the filter media. The zig-zags achieve this by effectively allowing a taller conventional filter element to be reduced in height. The problem is that the zig-zags also reduce the radial and circumferential stiffness of the pleated filter media. So, over time the small pressure drop across the filter media causes the media to suck in into that Coke bottle shape (reduced radial stiffness). This also causes the pleats to bunch together (reduced circumferential stiffness). The filter probably still works just fine.

MayorDJQ · Apr 22, 2011

Not this again....

It happens to zig-zag filters, it happens to straight filters.

Drive more, worry less.

dzcad90 · Apr 22, 2011

mayordjq said:
not this again....

It happens to zig-zag filters, it happens to straight filters.

Drive more, worry less.

+1!!!

WVU TDI · Apr 24, 2011

Yeah, just did my 20,000 mile service Friday morning, pulled my Mann filter out of the canister and it looked exactly like the OPs. Shurgged it off and carried on with the oil and filter change, along with the easiest fuel filter change I've ever seen. CJAA ftw.

El Dobro · Apr 24, 2011

Every once in a while, I'll see an oil filter that has a bead of what appears to be glue, around the center of the pleats to keep them apart. I wish I could remember what the cars were that they went into.

MayorDJQ · Apr 24, 2011

El Dobro said:
Every once in a while, I'll see an oil filter that has a bead of what appears to be glue, around the center of the pleats to keep them apart. I wish I could remember what the cars were that they went into.

Interesting. The oil flow is outside-in then?

40X40 · Apr 24, 2011

Non-issue. Drive more and worry less.
OC intervals are 10,000 miles, btw (per owners manual). Earlier is ok, but offers no advantages. Try a UOA if you want more peace of mind regarding OCIs.

Bill

Ski in NC · Apr 24, 2011

Isn't there a structure internal to the filter element that keeps the two end caps at a fixed distance? So if you squeeze the two end caps together by hand they are still rigidly attached?? If so, how the pleats look should be of little concern.

sgoldste01 · Apr 24, 2011

What motivated you to do an oil change 8k miles early?

Sky King · Apr 24, 2011

He's late by my methods. I do the first change before 1000 miles, usually 500 -600.

Second oil change 1500 to 2000 miles.

Third I go to my normal change interval. I rarely allow my TDI to go to 10k miles on an oil change. Usually 7K miles sometimes less. Depends how gritty the oil feels at the interval.

Personally, I don't believe oil filters should collapse. I'd find one that didn't and still offered the same protection.
YMMV.

Cheers,
Gene

40X40 · Apr 24, 2011

Sky King said:
He's late by my methods. I do the first change before 1000 miles, usually 500 -600.

Second oil change 1500 to 2000 miles.

Third I go to my normal change interval. I rarely allow my TDI to go to 10k miles on an oil change. Usually 7K miles sometimes less. Depends how gritty the oil feels at the interval.

Personally, I don't believe oil filters should collapse. I'd find one that didn't and still offered the same protection.
YMMV.

Cheers,
Gene

I met Kirby Grant (Sky King)when I was 6 or so and even got an autographed picture (black and white!!). He was traveling with a small circus in the midwest at the time and I was quite excited to meet him. I later earned a SEL, perhaps in part because of his series. 30 years ago at Oshkosh Airventure I watched some of his episodes projected outdoors on a bedsheet at Camp Scholler.

Your oil change was done at the VW factory after it was dynoed according to some thread posted years ago.

Bill

MayorDJQ · Apr 24, 2011

Sky King said:
He's late by my methods. I do the first change before 1000 miles, usually 500 -600.

Second oil change 1500 to 2000 miles.

Third I go to my normal change interval. I rarely allow my TDI to go to 10k miles on an oil change. Usually 7K miles sometimes less. Depends how gritty the oil feels at the interval.

Personally, I don't believe oil filters should collapse. I'd find one that didn't and still offered the same protection.
YMMV.

Cheers,
Gene

Are you serious? What are you driving, a Model T? You realize of course that the engine is test run at the factory the oil is changed a few times before you buy the car? There's nothing like applying 50 year old methodology to a modern engine.

You base your oil changes on "gritty the oil feels"? Have you ever done a UOA? There are 100s, maybe 1000s of people who have done UOAs and found that 10k is 100% safe for the TDI, when using the proper synthetic oil.

The engineers in Germany are really, really smart people. I trust them on the 10k oil change.

El Dobro · Apr 24, 2011

MayorDJQ said:
Interesting. The oil flow is outside-in then?

Yep, outside in.

Sky King · Apr 24, 2011

40X40 said:
I met Kirby Grant (Sky King)when I was 6 or so and even got an autographed picture (black and white!!). He was traveling with a small circus in the midwest at the time and I was quite excited to meet him. I later earned a SEL, perhaps in part because of his series. 30 years ago at Oshkosh Airventure I watched some of his episodes projected outdoors on a bedsheet at Camp Scholler.

Your oil change was done at the VW factory after it was dynoed according to some thread posted years ago.

Bill

Sky King is probably the reason I got my pilots license SEL as well. I have always wanted to fly a 310 and....I gunna. LOL

Sky King · Apr 24, 2011

MayorDJQ said:
Are you serious? What are you driving, a Model T? You realize of course that the engine is test run at the factory the oil is changed a few times before you buy the car? There's nothing like applying 50 year old methodology to a modern engine.

You base your oil changes on "gritty the oil feels"? Have you ever done a UOA? There are 100s, maybe 1000s of people who have done UOAs and found that 10k is 100% safe for the TDI, when using the proper synthetic oil.

The engineers in Germany are really, really smart people. I trust them on the 10k oil change.

Yes, I can feel particles in the oil when I rub it between my fingers. This represents the amount of suspended solids in the oil (that's one of the things that a good oil does keeps solids in suspension so the filter can catch it). I don't like allot of that in my oil regardless of the oil change interval. Usually particles of COKE which ain't good for small orifices and turbos.

Changing the oil also lets one know what is going on inside the engine. It's excellent maintenance and pretty cost effective too.

Wanna buy my old oil ?? It's still good

well according to you and the really really smart German Engineers. Bawaaaheehaaaa !! Wanna see my failed lifter and tore up engine?

Cheers,
Gene

MayorDJQ · Apr 25, 2011

Well, it's your money. If you want to flush it down the toilet, it's your decision.

Enough people over the years have proved your "methodology" to be wrong, so I feel safe going the full 10k. There are plenty of ALHs/AHUs out there with 300k that did 10k oil changes.

TuningIn · Apr 27, 2011

Isn't the oil a special break in oil from the factory?

It maybe coincidence, but on two of my previous VW's, I had oil consumption issues for the life of the vehicle on the ones that I changed the oil at 1k, but not on the ones that I followed the factory recommended intervals.

I waited the 10k this time around.

MayorDJQ · Apr 27, 2011

TuningIn said:
Isn't the oil a special break in oil from the factory?

It maybe coincidence, but on two of my previous VW's, I had oil consumption issues for the life of the vehicle on the ones that I changed the oil at 1k, but not on the ones that I followed the factory recommended intervals.

I waited the 10k this time around.

That's what we've been told for about three generations (of VW) now.

WVU TDI · Apr 28, 2011

MayorDJQ said:
The engineers in Germany are really, really smart people. I trust them on the 10k oil change.

This is my philosophy as well.

Trust a bunch of German PhDs, or some 50 year old wives tales?

Hmmmmmm.

frugality · Apr 28, 2011

C'mon, you have to realize that you are opening yourself up to ridicule when you poo-poo entire teams of German engineers, and then claim that you can tell when oil is good or bad by rubbing it between your fingers.

That ranks right up there with the folks who insist on K&N's, or buy those intake vortex gadgets to increase their mileage...

Reminds me of a true story. A guy insisted that he was dead, and couldn't be convinced otherwise. His doctor claimed that only living people bleed, and talked the guy into allowing him to pierce him with a needle to prove he was alive. The man looked at the flow of blood coming out of his arm and exclaimed, "My God! Dead people bleed, too!"

MayorDJQ · Apr 28, 2011

Sky King said:
Do you try to be this obnoxious or does it just come naturally?? I think it just comes naturally...

Just a note for an idiot like yourself. I didn't tell anyone what to do. I said what I do. You on the other hand...

You uhhhh...have a nice day,

You call me an idiot and then say I'm obnoxious? Good logic.

I also never told anyone what to do, I just staed my opinion, based on facts I've read over the years rather than on non-scientific, annecdotal methods.

Mach1 · Apr 28, 2011

All the oil filters from the CRD and BRM's collopse like this

El Dobro · Apr 30, 2011

The filters on my BRM never came out looking like the CR one, that's why I was surprised when I did the first CR oil change. That's the one that Katie Fox called me about because VW wanted it back.

golfTDI1 · May 1, 2011

Sky King said:
He's late by my methods. I do the first change before 1000 miles, usually 500 -600.

Second oil change 1500 to 2000 miles.

Third I go to my normal change interval. I rarely allow my TDI to go to 10k miles on an oil change. Usually 7K miles sometimes less. Depends how gritty the oil feels at the interval.

Personally, I don't believe oil filters should collapse. I'd find one that didn't and still offered the same protection.
YMMV.

Cheers,
Gene

To each his own, but this is not a good practice for new cars. 30 years ago this is the way things were done but today that oil can stay in. I don't want to go off topic here but there are many discussions about this in other threads and its been well proven (in my opinion) that the first OC can be done at 7500 miles instead of 10000, but changing early does absolutey nothing but wasted money. Engines today are broken in at the factory and have already received their first oil change. The TDI comes with synthetic oil anyway and that has greater ability to suspend particles. Everyone should do a search and look at the break-in recommendation in the FAQ.

To the OP: I did my 20,000mi service Friday and I didn't observe a filter collapse myself but I wouldn't worry about it unless the media has been compromised with a hole.

sgoldste01 · May 1, 2011

Why even do the first change at 7500 miles, rather than wait until 10k? Haven't enough Used Oil Analyses been done to prove that 10k is a good time to change your oil?

frugality · May 1, 2011

sgoldste01 said:
Why even do the first change at 7500 miles, rather than wait until 10k? Haven't enough Used Oil Analyses been done to prove that 10k is a good time to change your oil?

A birth certificate has been provided, too.....yet there are still 'birthers.'

It's not like this is about evidence.

2011 TDI oil filter collapse?

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