Lets start objecting/complaining !

If you do not exclude yourself from the Class Action Settlement, you may object to it. The Court will
consider your views. To comment on or to object to the Class Action Settlement, you or your attorney
must submit your written objection to the Court, including the following:
• Your name, address, and telephone number;
• A statement saying that you object to the Class Action Settlement in In re: Volkswagen
“Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, No. 3:15-
md-2672 (N.D. Cal.);
• The reasons you object to the Class Action Settlement, along with any supporting
materials;
• The VIN of your Eligible Vehicle and the dates you owned or leased the Eligible
Vehicle; and
• Your signature and date.
In addition, if you intend to appear at the final approval hearing (the “Fairness Hearing”), you must
submit a written notice of your intent (see Question 56 below).
You must mail your objection to the three addresses mentioned in https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf

Or in person:

The Court will hold the Fairness Hearing at XX:00 x.m. on Month 00, 0000, at the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, located at the United States Courthouse, 450 Golden Gate Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94102, before determining whether to approve the Class Action Settlement.

The hearing may be moved to a different date or time without additional notice, so it is a good idea to check www.VWCourtSettlement.com or call 1-844-98-CLAIM. At this hearing, the Court will hear evidence about whether the Class Action Settlement is fair, reasonable, and adequate.

If there are objections, the Court will consider them and may listen to people who have asked to speak at the hearing. After the hearing, the Court will decide whether to approve the Class Action Settlement. We do not know how long these decisions will take.

r11 said:

You must mail your objection to the three addresses below postmarked no later than Month 00, 2016:
COURT CLASS COUNSEL DEFENSE COUNSEL
Clerk of the Court/Judge
Charles R. Breyer
Phillip Burton Federal Building
& United States Courthouse
Elizabeth Cabraser
Lieff Cabraser Heimann &
Bernstein, LLP
275 Battery Street, 29th Floor
Sharon L. Nelles
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
125 Broad Street
New York, NY 10004

Click to expand...

Where did you get the addresses from. They look incomplete. Can you clarify them?

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf

58. May I speak at the hearing?

You may ask the Court for permission to speak at the Fairness Hearing. The Court will determine whether to grant you permission to speak. To do so, you must send a letter stating that it is your “Notice of Intention to Appear in In re: Volkswagen “Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, No. 3:15-md-2672 (N.D. Cal.).” Be sure to include your name, address, telephone number, and your signature.

Your notice of intention to appear must be postmarked no later than Month
00, 0000, and sent to the addresses listed in Question 54.

I hope I have enough time to get my comments in before "Month 00, 2016."

Seriously, though, the comment period for us does not open up until later. The exact date is not known yet. So, it's a bit too early.

Nothing stops you from getting your complains mailed now.

Or calling any of 100 or so, lawyers that VW pays for, to ask your questions etc.

All in the https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf

Thanks, they were cut off. Better now you just linked it.

Yeah, copy'paste from PDF into plain text is a b1@tch !

The only areas I'd really look to contest would be:

- Use Clean Retail Value rather than Clean Trade In Value
- Adjust upward the average miles driven adjustment factor (1024 too low, IMO)

Will have a hard time arguing either point, especially given the average miles driven is industry standard.

Lets start objecting/complaining !

Click to expand...

When did we ever stop???

senez said:

The only areas I'd really look to contest would be:

- Use Clean Retail Value rather than Clean Trade In Value
- Adjust upward the average miles driven adjustment factor (1024 too low, IMO)

Will have a hard time arguing either point, especially given the average miles driven is industry standard.

Click to expand...

Well, since my DPF just cracked (in other words, for personal reasons), I would enter an objection for VW to warranty their cheating emissions/exhaust system in the interim until a fix or buyback is performed.
I don't think they should expect repairs of their improperly designed system at cost to the owners while we wait for this to be final .

r11 said:

Yeah, copy'paste from PDF into plain text is a b1@tch !

Click to expand...

For sure.

You'll notice that I've been locking threads pertaining to Dieselgate that weren't within the Dieselgate's specified thread.

... except threads that contained useful information and continued useful discussion.

... and as of right now, and in my personal opinion, this is one of them.

VW really ought to be covering the entire emissions system (as described in that mandatory "fix" warranty coverage) in the interim until the "fix" gets applied. There's a whole lot of stuff that goes wrong with these which they've been weaseling out of.

I'm in Canada, so at least for the moment, it's up to you 'murricans to do the complaining.

I'm not holding my breath for a better settlement but I think we need to pull together and write objections.

I just bought a used golf tdi in August 2015 at msrp used value from a dealer and they want to give me trade in value for one month of use. The additional restitution money doesn't cover my entire purchase plus taxes/fees.

IMO Cars should be bought at msrp, plus tax, plus restitution. This is the only way to at least make us whole, and cover the hassle with a little extra money. Currently, I'm not going to break even and I am not sure what I'm going to do about replacement vehicles (2 TDI's)

I would hope that we can be diligent about writing objections and be persuasive enough that we come out of this with a win. I'm planning on writing in since my situation with an August purchase exposes some big problems with the settlement.

senez said:

The only areas I'd really look to contest would be:

- Use Clean Retail Value rather than Clean Trade In Value
- Adjust upward the average miles driven adjustment factor (1024 too low, IMO)

Will have a hard time arguing either point, especially given the average miles driven is industry standard.

Click to expand...

I agree. Keep the value system equal. Trade in value is not the same as market value. I think I would get more from the insurance company if I wrecked it.

r11 said:

If you do not exclude yourself from the Class Action Settlement, you may object to it. The Court will
consider your views. To comment on or to object to the Class Action Settlement, you or your attorney
must submit your written objection to the Court, including the following:
• Your name, address, and telephone number;
• A statement saying that you object to the Class Action Settlement in In re: Volkswagen
“Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, No. 3:15-
md-2672 (N.D. Cal.);
• The reasons you object to the Class Action Settlement, along with any supporting
materials;
• The VIN of your Eligible Vehicle and the dates you owned or leased the Eligible
Vehicle; and
• Your signature and date.
In addition, if you intend to appear at the final approval hearing (the “Fairness Hearing”), you must
submit a written notice of your intent (see Question 56 below).
You must mail your objection to the three addresses mentioned in https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf

Click to expand...

I intend to speak up every way I can

Thanks for this thread

senez said:

The only areas I'd really look to contest would be:

- Use Clean Retail Value rather than Clean Trade In Value
- Adjust upward the average miles driven adjustment factor (1024 too low, IMO)

Will have a hard time arguing either point, especially given the average miles driven is industry standard.

Click to expand...

Exactly ~~ what it this "TRADE IN" all about?

Should have a starting point at RETAIL ~~ After all that is HOW we bought 'em

Bear in mind that by the time you actually HAVE to turn in the car (mid-2018) it will have actually depreciated 2 more years from wherever it is now and it has already depreciated 9 months from where it was in Sept 2015.

"Trade-in" as of Sept 2015 is probably bigger than "retail" as of May 2018 ... I would suggest to the people whining about this to simply make use of this. Yes, if you drive more than 1,000 miles per month it will cost you somewhere near 4 or 5 cents per excess mile in depreciation. What other late model vehicle will depreciate that little? That's cheap.

GoFaster said:

Bear in mind that by the time you actually HAVE to turn in the car (mid-2018) it will have actually depreciated 2 more years from wherever it is now and it has already depreciated 9 months from where it was in Sept 2015.

"Trade-in" as of Sept 2015 is probably bigger than "retail" as of May 2018 ... I would suggest to the people whining about this to simply make use of this. Yes, if you drive more than 1,000 miles per month it will cost you somewhere near 4 or 5 cents per excess mile in depreciation. What other late model vehicle will depreciate that little? That's cheap.

Click to expand...

Point well taken.

Guess the buy back figure is "frozen" as of now until 2018, if my needs can wait until then.

As a very low mileage driver I might even get a larger mileage consideration then.

Only risk I see is a wipe out crash (totaled) ~~ Condition is not a factor so a paint chip is nothing.

I have bumper to bumper until July 2018. So cost looks like gas, insurance ~ 'bout nothing else ~~ making it a free ride.

See only one other (remote) risk. The money VW is liable for is caped.

Add to that the other 10,000,000 (non-American) owners are chaffing over our "wind fall" generous pay outs.

One might say it is like money in the bank ~~ if everything goes according to plan.

GoFaster said:

VW really ought to be covering the entire emissions system (as described in that mandatory "fix" warranty coverage) in the interim until the "fix" gets applied. There's a whole lot of stuff that goes wrong with these which they've been weaseling out of.

Click to expand...

Agreed, this would at least be some compensation for those wanting the fix that may or may not happen within a 2 year time frame, as well as those with higher mile 2010 that got boned on their "valuation"

GoFaster said:

<snip>



VW really ought to be covering the entire emissions system (as described in that mandatory "fix" warranty coverage) in the interim until the "fix" gets applied. There's a whole lot of stuff that goes wrong with these which they've been weaseling out of.

Click to expand...

What is the mandatory fix info. Where can I read about it?

2015vwgolfdiesel said:

What is the mandatory fix info. Where can I read about it?

Click to expand...

It's all in here. Warranty at 3.9
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/Appendix B.pdf

Here is the objection I plan to file with each of the involved parties. My understanding is you will need to send a separate letter to each of them (so only one of these addresses per letter). Feel free to copy it if you would like to send your own. Stuff in bold you need to tailor to yourself.

COURT
Clerk of the Court/Judge
Charles R. Breyer
Phillip Burton Federal Building
& United States Courthouse
450 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94102

CLASS COUNSEL
Elizabeth Cabraser
Lieff Cabraser Heimann &
Bernstein, LLP
275 Battery Street, 29th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111

DEFENSE COUNSEL
Sharon L. Nelles
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
125 Broad Street
New York, NY 10004

Month Day, 2016

To Whom it May Concern;

I would like to offer my objection to the Class Action Settlement re: Volkswagen
“Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, No. 3:15-
md-2672 (N.D. Cal.).

In addition to the current settlement offer, I would like to present an addition to include Volkswagen’s responsibility to maintain the current emissions and exhaust system through implied or extended warranty to any component of said system required to maintain operational condition of the vehicle, regardless of age or mileage. This would be an interim warranty to maintain the vehicle’s emission system and affected parts between the filing of the final settlement, and the time of the buy back or modification. This would include all items listed in the settlement that will be covered under the modification warranty, as follows:

1. The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the DOC, the SCR catalyst (if applicable), the dosing injector and other DEF system components (if applicable), the NOx trap (if applicable), all sensors and actuators, and the exhaust flap;

2. The entire fuel system, including the fuel pumps, high pressure common
rail, fuel injectors, and all sensors and actuators;

3. EGR system including the EGR valve, EGR cooler, EGR filter, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators;

4. The turbocharger;

5. The OBD System and any malfunctions detected by the OBD System other than those related to the transmission; and

6. The DPF.

In support of this addition: The design and functionality of the current system is both faulty and illegal as far as emissions go. All parts associated with the exhaust and emissions should be considered a part of the emissions defeat system, and must be maintained as is until such time the vehicle is subject to buy back or modification.

It is known that modification to the vehicles ECU has been performed to alter the emissions characteristics. These modifications may have an undesired effect on the system components, as it is performing functions outside the design parameters for temperature cycling. This can affect component reliability and durability and can be characterized by an increase in component failures observed in numerous owner and enthusiast groups.

It should be considered undo hardship to maintain the system at the owner’s expense on a vehicle that is by VW’s own admission faulty, and has a short life span. The owner should not be deprived of the use of the vehicle during the waiting period.

Parts in need of repair can cause excessive emissions beyond the current illegal levels, and the high cost of repair will give owners incentive to not have the repairs done. There will be a period of time between the final settlement and when owners may sell back their vehicles, and an even longer period until an approved modification can be made. VW must be held responsible for the emissions systems operation during that period.

My affected vehicle is a 20XX Jetta TDI, VIN XVWXXXXXXXXXX, Purchased Month Day, 20XX and currently in my possession and ownership.

Sincerely,



Joe Blow
1122 Oogie Boogie Avenue
Nowhere, ST, USA 12345
111-555-1234

GoFaster said:

Bear in mind that by the time you actually HAVE to turn in the car (mid-2018) it will have actually depreciated 2 more years from wherever it is now and it has already depreciated 9 months from where it was in Sept 2015.

"Trade-in" as of Sept 2015 is probably bigger than "retail" as of May 2018 ... I would suggest to the people whining about this to simply make use of this. Yes, if you drive more than 1,000 miles per month it will cost you somewhere near 4 or 5 cents per excess mile in depreciation. What other late model vehicle will depreciate that little? That's cheap.

Click to expand...

That's great for people that want to hold on to the vehicle another two years, not so great for people that wanted out a year ago.. like me.

I should wait 2 more years in a car I no longer need so I can get around them offering trade in and not retail?

ChimneyJim said:

It's all in here. Warranty at 3.9
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/Appendix B.pdf

Click to expand...

Thanks

My eyes started to glaze over on page 25

But was helpful

On GEN 3 there is talk about 150,000 miles (or 15 years) warranty(?) on one particular part. Sounds good. But confess I understand about 2% of the legalese

senez said:

The only areas I'd really look to contest would be:

- Use Clean Retail Value rather than Clean Trade In Value
- Adjust upward the average miles driven adjustment factor (1024 too low, IMO)

Will have a hard time arguing either point, especially given the average miles driven is industry standard.

Click to expand...

I agree to objection of the average miles driven. VW knows our mileage at time of registration of Goodwill Package and can determine miles per month based on when we signed up and when/if we turn cars in. However, I understand that this calculation needs to be done the same for ever vehicle so it is unlikely to change from industry standard average. The should consider that TDi's are not purchased by the average driver though.

My biggest complaint about the "buy"back is that they are using trade in value and not resell value. It's shorting most owners 2-3 grand just on value. Should add at least another 2500 to the amount each owner should receive. I'm selling it back, not trading it in.

MrWrench said:

My biggest complaint about the "buy"back is that they are using trade in value and not resell value.

Click to expand...

Where are you seeing this? everything I see say's Market value

jeff0093 said:

Where are you seeing this? everything I see say's Market value

Click to expand...

They are using NADA clean value trade in. It's under the buyback section of the court order.

It depends on tax jurisdiction but I suspect you might lose any money paid for taxes/fees unless you actually trade the vehicle at the time of return (immediately purchase another vehicle from VW). I believe this is how it will work where I live, if and when. A little devious inducement to get you to stick with VW.

May I make a suggestion? It might make this thread (even) more useful if you started a menu of objection points for thread users to raise during the comment period. You could carry that menu forward each time some adds to it. That way, those who want to object can pick and choose which particularly hit home for them. Keep the list simple; those who want to know more can read back through the thread for details about each.

So, for example, you might maintain and add to a list, with each new addition be supported by the poster's reasons in the substance of the post - but keep the list itself clean. Here's what has been raised so far:

- Buyback price should remain based on 9/1/15 NADA retail valuation, not trade-in
- warranty for emissions failures pending repair or buyback choice
- mileage driven adjustment should be altered
- settlement should address real world costs of acquiring replacement vehicle, ie taxes/fees